Could Goku forget how to go Super Saiyan?

[LoganForkHands73]

In the Super era, it's been shown several times, primarily with Gohan, that it's possible to lose the ability to do certain transformations when consistent training and usage is neglected. In Resurrection 'F', Gohan "forgot" how to transform higher than Super Saiyan 1, losing his coveted Super Saiyan 2 and Ultimate forms and forcing him to train rigorously to reobtain them for the Tournament of Power.



Goku is treading deep on the path of the gods and angels. The last few story arcs have culminated in his ability to use Ultra Instinct at will, with Whis instructing him to use Ultra Instinct all the time, even while in base form (though the silver-haired 'Perfected' transformation is apparently still going to be kept around as a last-minute power boost until he can truly master it as a permanent state of being). His need for the golden Super Saiyan forms, including the coloured Super Saiyan God forms, is starting to wane. Unlike Gohan, Goku hones himself constantly, but with the path he's taking being antithetical to the emotion-fuelled Super Saiyan transformations of the past, could he possibly forget how to go Super Saiyan altogether?

Whis is drilling into Goku's primate brain that transformations are not the be-all-end-all for attaining greater strength. As the power of Ultra Instinct is orders of magnitude stronger than any Super Saiyan form could ever hope to be, could we theoretically see Goku (and Vegeta) totally leave them in the dust? Although the new transformations are a regular point of criticism of the revival era, it feels as though Toriyama has been pushing the protagonists in this direction for a while. Toriyama has lowballed the Super Saiyan multiplier forms to actually be inferior to the full potential of the regular plain old Super Saiyan. Then there's the God-like Saiyan form introduced in RoF, with which Goku and Vegeta can access godly power in their base forms. It seems that every time Goku and Vegeta attain new levels, they are being pushed to internalise the power they gain and reduce unnecessary baggage that comes with transforming.



I'm not suggesting that the regular Super Saiyan forms will ever go away. Even if Goku and Vegeta abandon them, there's still Goten, Trunks, Gohan (maybe), all the Universe 6 Saiyans and others who can bear the torch. The image of Super Saiyan Goku is so strong in pop culture that it'll always be included in games and merchandising till the end of time.

There could be some evidence for Goku's neglect of Super Saiyan. By the time he encounters Uub at the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, he doesn't use Super Saiyan at all. Now, of course, the logical explanation would be that he simply doesn't need to use Super Saiyan on the amateurish boy especially now that he's grown so much stronger in the interim, plus he wouldn't want to freak the audience out. However, with recent revelations that Uub possessed godly ki thanks to inheriting the Dai Kaioshin's power from Buu (somehow... I've long since given up trying to make sense of how Buu's body works), it may be strange in hindsight that Goku didn't need to go in harder against him.

A counterpoint would be that in the probably-non-canon self-parody manga Neko Majin Z by Toriyama, set after the end of the manga, Goku does in fact use Super Saiyan while training against his feline pupil Z. Though again, it's a parody manga produced long before the full revival era was a twinkle in Toriyama's eye, so the likelihood of it factoring into current storylines is very slim.



We could assume that Goku has more or less completed his training with Whis by the time the 'Peaceful World' rolls around, so it's possible that he's mastered the ability to use Ultra Instinct in his base form. The fact that Uub still manages to damage Goku in this state will make his initially impressive showing against Goku from the context of 1995 look astronomical in 202X. Goku and Uub's fight is extremely short in the manga and expanded in the anime. In the anime, Goku doesn't look like he's fighting any differently to usual -- if anything he seems to fight more brutishly with a normal boxing stance rather than his classic Kamesenryu stance. It's all very exciting either way. Thoughts?

[Koitsukai]

I doubt it. When you master your emotions and have absolute control over them and unlock the silver form because of it, it should also go both ways, using those emotions at will, turning them off or on depending on what you desire. I guess it's like riding a bike as well. So I don't think Goku will LOSE his ability to turn SS, rather he'll choose not to. I think the UI training should make the process of going SS even easier, if that's even possible.

Gohan forgetting how to go SS2 (IIRC, he only said he didn't know if he could turn regular SS... but he could) isn't really new, he couldn't do it in the Buu arc, and then getting his ultimate state made that extra mile he already had trouble with, even harder. He always had trouble with managing his emotions, and Goku now is working to use them as if they were tools.

I think the Uub fight, if we ever get there, will be slightly retconned, with Goku doing some crazy movements instead of the original brawl. We shouldn't discard just now the possibility of Goku's base form, even without UI, being incredibly stronger by the time EoZ comes around. Strong enough for him to have an old school bout with the really strong Uub.

It should also be noted that Uub having that much power within doesn't necessarily mean he can use it freely. It could've been the Daikaioshin helping him out to draw it out.

[Magnificent Ponta]

The only way I could see Goku 'forgetting' SSj is if that were somehow a prerequisite to his further development, and so a goal for his progress, rather than simply a by-product of his progress. Gohan's issue is rather different, as a loss of fighting sense more generally; as long as Goku has his fighting sense, and his lesser forms don't stand in the way of him moving on to new heights, they'll always be an option.

One thing I've been reflecting on lately is how often across Dragon Ball Goku has been able to rebuild himself from the ground up by "re-training from the basics"; at the very least, he did it with Kami, on the trip to Namek, on his approach to SSj in the Cell arc, and now in his time with Whis (even against his own inclination at times, as when he pouts at Whis insisting "Consistency is what'll make you stronger in the end" when he makes him do so). Unlike others who cling to the progress they've made in trying to become stronger (see: Vegeta and Trunks, going beyond the Super Saiyan by pushing the form to its limits), Goku isn't afraid to reach that next pinnacle by starting again, and that's come up again in the current arc (though this time, both for himself and Vegeta).

So he probably could 'forget' SSj; but only by choosing to do so in order to do something better: more a forsaking than a forgetting, I suppose.

[LoganForkHands73]

I doubt it. When you master your emotions and have absolute control over them and unlock the silver form because of it, it should also go both ways, using those emotions at will, turning them off or on depending on what you desire. I guess it's like riding a bike as well. So I don't think Goku will LOSE his ability to turn SS, rather he'll choose not to. I think the UI training should make the process of going SS even easier, if that's even possible.

Gohan forgetting how to go SS2 (IIRC, he only said he didn't know if he could turn regular SS... but he could) isn't really new, he couldn't do it in the Buu arc, and then getting his ultimate state made that extra mile he already had trouble with, even harder. He always had trouble with managing his emotions, and Goku now is working to use them as if they were tools.

I think the Uub fight, if we ever get there, will be slightly retconned, with Goku doing some crazy movements instead of the original brawl. We shouldn't discard just now the possibility of Goku's base form, even without UI, being incredibly stronger by the time EoZ comes around. Strong enough for him to have an old school bout with the really strong Uub.

It should also be noted that Uub having that much power within doesn't necessarily mean he can use it freely. It could've been the Daikaioshin helping him out to draw it out.

Thanks for the response. Honestly, I agree that the chances of this are slim. 'Forget' was perhaps the wrong word to use (I guess it'll be good clickbait), but I suppose what I was getting at is, could he, as Ponta puts it better, forsake it entirely for the purpose of furthering Ultra Instinct, and subsequently lose the muscle memory through neglect? Could pursuit of Ultra Instinct's mindless philosophy lead him to never seeing the need to use rage or back-tingles for a power boost ever again? Again, I would say probably not permanently, because the form is too iconic to Goku, but I feel that's the direction the series is going in.

Though it doesn't even feel like Goku or Vegeta have used regular Super Saiyan since, like, the early portion of the Moro arc where they were forced to use lower transformations because Moro was sappin' their sentries, but I could be wrong. They've used God and Blue plenty in the manga, but it feels like the last hurrah for the golden forms was the Broly movie.

Gohan could go Super Saiyan 2 in the Buu arc, he just lost his touch with it. It lost its special status so fast.

[Koitsukai]

I doubt it. When you master your emotions and have absolute control over them and unlock the silver form because of it, it should also go both ways, using those emotions at will, turning them off or on depending on what you desire. I guess it's like riding a bike as well. So I don't think Goku will LOSE his ability to turn SS, rather he'll choose not to. I think the UI training should make the process of going SS even easier, if that's even possible.

Gohan forgetting how to go SS2 (IIRC, he only said he didn't know if he could turn regular SS... but he could) isn't really new, he couldn't do it in the Buu arc, and then getting his ultimate state made that extra mile he already had trouble with, even harder. He always had trouble with managing his emotions, and Goku now is working to use them as if they were tools.

I think the Uub fight, if we ever get there, will be slightly retconned, with Goku doing some crazy movements instead of the original brawl. We shouldn't discard just now the possibility of Goku's base form, even without UI, being incredibly stronger by the time EoZ comes around. Strong enough for him to have an old school bout with the really strong Uub.

It should also be noted that Uub having that much power within doesn't necessarily mean he can use it freely. It could've been the Daikaioshin helping him out to draw it out.

Thanks for the response. Honestly, I agree that the chances of this are slim. 'Forget' was perhaps the wrong word to use (I guess it'll be good clickbait), but I suppose what I was getting at is, could he, as Ponta puts it better, forsake it entirely for the purpose of furthering Ultra Instinct, and subsequently lose the muscle memory through neglect? Could pursuit of Ultra Instinct's mindless philosophy lead him to never seeing the need to use rage or back-tingles for a power boost ever again? Again, I would say probably not permanently, because the form is too iconic to Goku, but I feel that's the direction the series is going in.

Though it doesn't even feel like Goku or Vegeta have used regular Super Saiyan since, like, the early portion of the Moro arc where they were forced to use lower transformations because Moro was sappin' their sentries, but I could be wrong. They've used God and Blue plenty in the manga, but it feels like the last hurrah for the golden forms was the Broly movie.

Gohan could go Super Saiyan 2 in the Buu arc, he just lost his touch with it. It lost its special status so fast.

I think since BoG the golden forms have been suffering some sort of obsolescence. Even Rou Kaioshin said those forms weren't the way back in Z. But because of marketing I guess, they keep coming back like Barney Gumble. It's high time to put them to rest, and make way for these better ways of power-wielding.

They are now used for small potatoes, to save energy in the U6 tournament, to test Trunks, to test Black, to save energy in the ToP, to play around with Broly... it seems this arc is going for something that'll replace that, also considering how UI works, it shouldn't be able to be mixed with SS, but this still could totally happen.

So, I think he would not physically lose the ability to go SS, after all if it depends on emotion, he is still a mortal and emotions shouldn't disappear for good no matter what training you undergo (I mean, if a monk WANTS to get angry, he should be able to), unlike angels who may not even have been born with emotions.
I believe he will drop the SS forms because he is learning a fancier, cleaner, more proficient way to deal with small potatoes. But if, say a new wizard comes in, waves his magic stick and blocks every UI form, I think he'd still be able to appeal to the old blond forms, after all I doubt he'll lose the ability to get angry in the long run.

[pepd]

I think they will limit its use to portray failing with MnG while Gokuu learns to use it in his normal state, but I don't think it will be completely abandoned at the end or that he will somehow lose the ability to use it.
There has always been the playful or non-serious fighting, specially in base. I think at the end the SS will be used as a extension of that for Gokuu.

[GodVegetto91]

Spoiler:

In the Super era, it's been shown several times, primarily with Gohan, that it's possible to lose the ability to do certain transformations when consistent training and usage is neglected. In Resurrection 'F', Gohan "forgot" how to transform higher than Super Saiyan 1, losing his coveted Super Saiyan 2 and Ultimate forms and forcing him to train rigorously to reobtain them for the Tournament of Power.



Goku is treading deep on the path of the gods and angels. The last few story arcs have culminated in his ability to use Ultra Instinct at will, with Whis instructing him to use Ultra Instinct all the time, even while in base form (though the silver-haired 'Perfected' transformation is apparently still going to be kept around as a last-minute power boost until he can truly master it as a permanent state of being). His need for the golden Super Saiyan forms, including the coloured Super Saiyan God forms, is starting to wane. Unlike Gohan, Goku hones himself constantly, but with the path he's taking being antithetical to the emotion-fuelled Super Saiyan transformations of the past, could he possibly forget how to go Super Saiyan altogether?

Whis is drilling into Goku's primate brain that transformations are not the be-all-end-all for attaining greater strength. As the power of Ultra Instinct is orders of magnitude stronger than any Super Saiyan form could ever hope to be, could we theoretically see Goku (and Vegeta) totally leave them in the dust? Although the new transformations are a regular point of criticism of the revival era, it feels as though Toriyama has been pushing the protagonists in this direction for a while. Toriyama has lowballed the Super Saiyan multiplier forms to actually be inferior to the full potential of the regular plain old Super Saiyan. Then there's the God-like Saiyan form introduced in RoF, with which Goku and Vegeta can access godly power in their base forms. It seems that every time Goku and Vegeta attain new levels, they are being pushed to internalise the power they gain and reduce unnecessary baggage that comes with transforming.



I'm not suggesting that the regular Super Saiyan forms will ever go away. Even if Goku and Vegeta abandon them, there's still Goten, Trunks, Gohan (maybe), all the Universe 6 Saiyans and others who can bear the torch. The image of Super Saiyan Goku is so strong in pop culture that it'll always be included in games and merchandising till the end of time.

There could be some evidence for Goku's neglect of Super Saiyan. By the time he encounters Uub at the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, he doesn't use Super Saiyan at all. Now, of course, the logical explanation would be that he simply doesn't need to use Super Saiyan on the amateurish boy especially now that he's grown so much stronger in the interim, plus he wouldn't want to freak the audience out. However, with recent revelations that Uub possessed godly ki thanks to inheriting the Dai Kaioshin's power from Buu (somehow... I've long since given up trying to make sense of how Buu's body works), it may be strange in hindsight that Goku didn't need to go in harder against him.

A counterpoint would be that in the probably-non-canon self-parody manga Neko Majin Z by Toriyama, set after the end of the manga, Goku does in fact use Super Saiyan while training against his feline pupil Z. Though again, it's a parody manga produced long before the full revival era was a twinkle in Toriyama's eye, so the likelihood of it factoring into current storylines is very slim.



We could assume that Goku has more or less completed his training with Whis by the time the 'Peaceful World' rolls around, so it's possible that he's mastered the ability to use Ultra Instinct in his base form. The fact that Uub still manages to damage Goku in this state will make his initially impressive showing against Goku from the context of 1995 look astronomical in 202X. Goku and Uub's fight is extremely short in the manga and expanded in the anime. In the anime, Goku doesn't look like he's fighting any differently to usual -- if anything he seems to fight more brutishly with a normal boxing stance rather than his classic Kamesenryu stance. It's all very exciting either way. Thoughts?

According to Whis in this image here, it very strongly seems to imply that Goku will continue to use all the other forms aswell. So Base < SSJ1 < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJ God < SSJ Blue < SSJ Silver.