Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[HeroR]

I hope they're not bringing back another dead/non-main-continuity villain into the show. Some creativity and originality is all I ask.

I don’t mind if they’re like Broly who only shares very basic similarities with OG Broly: like their name, being banished for being too powerful, and having revenge obsess fathers. Super Broly is more Goku if Grandpa Gohan was an abuser than an updated OG Broly.

[Noah]

Another accurate shot from Toei, this fanbase is fanatic, hysterical and might never understand... but why waste money and/or resources on a weekly anime, when you can invest more in movies to be released every 3 years with outstanding animation? Considering how bad to average was DBS animation, I can take the second option over the first at any time.

Also I believe it will be a original story as I don't think Toei would waste money adapting Toyotaro-only stuff that everyone knows how it ends.

[SupremeKai25]

Nope, the last poll took place in 2018, 2 years after the Goku Black arc was already over (Goku Black arc ended in November 2016).

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Popularity_Polls

So you can't use "character was still fresh!!" excuse as an argument because the character had been dead for two years already.

I mean I would still consider that relatively recent compared to characters who have existed for decades. Broly was higher on both 2018 polls but DBS: Broly will likely be his only appearance since he wasn't brought up in the following two arcs taking place in U7. Zamasu was pretty dead last we saw him after being erased by Zeno. I don't think Heroes explained how Merged Zamasu or Goku Black were brought back there so I prefer they wouldn't do that again and leave it up to the audience to guess.

For context, that’s OG Broly. The poll was done before the Broly movie.

And Goku Black is still stupidly popular. Legends release a new Goku Black card every year and he’s one of only four villains to get a LF: the first being Frieza, Super Broly who came with Gogeta Blue, and Kid Buu. So he got a LF before Cell and Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Black was also an anniversary unit in Dokkan and is often paired with Vegito Blue.

Recently he was also introduced in Heroes. I know some people online think that Heroes is a joke, but in reality Heroes is the most popular arcade videogame in Japan. So getting featured in Heroes is HUGE. Could it be that they introduced Black in Heroes to coincide with a potential movie about him? That would maximize marketing.

[HeroR]

Well, that's just your opinion, man. I for one love Cooler, from his design to his motivation, to his connection with Frieza. OBJECTIVELY he is an infinitely more interesting and compelling character than Janemba will ever be. You call Cooler a stereotypical “Monster”, but that is literally what Super Janemba is lol. Janemba is literally just some random kid that was turned into an unstoppable monster on accident, the guy cannot even talk lol. Sure, Janemba looks cool, but that's where all interest in that character dies for me. Janemba's movie was literally just a platform to showcase Gogeta, Cooler didn't need to have the heroes showcase any new ability, he was the showcase.

“Interesting” and “compelling” are subjective terms and have no ground in any form of objectivity Extreme_kai... I actually find Super Janemba to be far more interesting and compelling BECAUSE he was a character that didn’t speak very much and the fact that he was literally born from all the evil contained and build up within that soul cleansing machine makes his story very interesting... (Much like Buu who had existed since time immemorial!) A very “mysterious” DEMON in indeed.. The fact that he had so little in common with the average folk in the multiverse is EXACTLY what made him so “interesting”, “compelling” and indeed, MYSTERIOUS, imo...

(Much more so than some young, primitive, random mutant of a random super powerful mortal alien race with some dumb transformations.)

I said more interesting and compelling which he certainly is compared to Janemba. Tell me, what is so interesting about Janemba outside of his moveset and design? Does his existence offer insight into the past of other major characters and lore in the series? Last I checked, being the Brother to Frieza and Son to King Cold is kinda a huge deal. Cooler has so much untapped potential while Janemba has zero unless you want to create an entirely different character. I'm done are arguing, Cooler is OBJECTIVELY a better character because he actually has a "character" lol

My problem is that Cooler’s character was just a smarter and more calm Frieza, which is kinda reductant when Frieza basically became Cooler’s character after the development he got in the TOP and Broly.

[HeroR]

I mean I would still consider that relatively recent compared to characters who have existed for decades. Broly was higher on both 2018 polls but DBS: Broly will likely be his only appearance since he wasn't brought up in the following two arcs taking place in U7. Zamasu was pretty dead last we saw him after being erased by Zeno. I don't think Heroes explained how Merged Zamasu or Goku Black were brought back there so I prefer they wouldn't do that again and leave it up to the audience to guess.

For context, that’s OG Broly. The poll was done before the Broly movie.

And Goku Black is still stupidly popular. Legends release a new Goku Black card every year and he’s one of only four villains to get a LF: the first being Frieza, Super Broly who came with Gogeta Blue, and Kid Buu. So he got a LF before Cell and Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Black was also an anniversary unit in Dokkan and is often paired with Vegito Blue.

Recently he was also introduced in Heroes. I know some people online think that Heroes is a joke, but in reality Heroes is the most popular arcade videogame in Japan. So getting featured in Heroes is HUGE. Could it be that they introduced Black in Heroes to coincide with a potential movie about him? That would maximize marketing.

Heroes’ stories don’t really foreshadow official produces. As you said, Black is in Heroes because he’s stupidly popular. He’s basically Super’s Frieza. Which is impressive since Black was only around for 20 epsoides.

[SupremeKai25]

For context, that’s OG Broly. The poll was done before the Broly movie.

And Goku Black is still stupidly popular. Legends release a new Goku Black card every year and he’s one of only four villains to get a LF: the first being Frieza, Super Broly who came with Gogeta Blue, and Kid Buu. So he got a LF before Cell and Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Black was also an anniversary unit in Dokkan and is often paired with Vegito Blue.

Recently he was also introduced in Heroes. I know some people online think that Heroes is a joke, but in reality Heroes is the most popular arcade videogame in Japan. So getting featured in Heroes is HUGE. Could it be that they introduced Black in Heroes to coincide with a potential movie about him? That would maximize marketing.

Heroes’ stories don’t really foreshadow official produces. As you said, Black is in Heroes because he’s stupidly popular. He’s basically Super’s Frieza. Which is impressive since Black was only around for 20 epsoides.

Well didn't Vegito vs. Cumber kind of foreshadow the Broly movie? SSB Fusion vs. Rabid/Savage Saiyan.

[HeroR]

Recently he was also introduced in Heroes. I know some people online think that Heroes is a joke, but in reality Heroes is the most popular arcade videogame in Japan. So getting featured in Heroes is HUGE. Could it be that they introduced Black in Heroes to coincide with a potential movie about him? That would maximize marketing.

Heroes’ stories don’t really foreshadow official produces. As you said, Black is in Heroes because he’s stupidly popular. He’s basically Super’s Frieza. Which is impressive since Black was only around for 20 epsoides.

Well didn't Vegito vs. Cumber kind of foreshadow the Broly movie? SSB Fusion vs. Rabid/Savage Saiyan.

Pretty surface level when Cumber and Broly have little in common other than being crazy powerful Saiyans. Vegito Blue was barely around and wasn’t the main battle.

[Lord Beerus]

Another accurate shot from Toei, this fanbase is fanatic, hysterical and might never understand... but why waste money and/or resources on a weekly anime, when you can invest more in movies to be released every 3 years with outstanding animation? Considering how bad to average was DBS animation, I can take the second option over the first at any time.

It must be stressed that the major reason Dragon Ball Super looked the way that it did during its original run was because there was literally no pre-production as well not enough good staff available at the time they announced the show. You wanna know what happens when Toei properly plan out a long-running weekly animated TV show? Look at the Wano arc for One Piece.

[Grimlock]

Tell me, what is so interesting about Janemba outside of his moveset and design?

The fact that you can acknowledge that Janemba already possesses techniques and design means you're halfway there to understand what makes him a better character. Isn't the purpose of "reimagining" a character precisely to give them a better personality/motivation? That's what Janemba lacks, that's what using this character now would give to him (they attempted with Broly, and while he isn't all that better than his alternate dimension counterpart, it's already something, isn't?).

Just being a random kid turned into a mindless demonic monster is not interesting, it can offer insight on the soul-cleansing machine, but the kid himself is just random asf.

Wrong. Janemba is a smoke that needs a host and he found his host on a kid. Janemba is not a kid. Please watch the movie more carefully next time. Regardless, that origin can change in this dimension. They don't need to keep that.

Does his existence offer insight into the past of other major characters and lore in the series?

Does it need to offer that? Last I checked, no. However, he can offer (a new) insight and lore to the series.

Last I checked, being the Brother to Frieza and son to King Cold is kinda a huge deal in Dragonball.

Can you point where you checked? Because we learn that Freeza has an evil brother and that's it. They didn't make Cooler's existence all that impactful. If we take away the information that he's Freeza's brother, we won't lose anything. He's just another member of Freeza's race.

Controlling parts of an empire that affect billions of alien species is a huge deal in Dragonball.

Doesn't Freeza already do that? Do we really need yet another character "controlling parts of an empire"?

Cooler has so much untapped potential while Janemba has zero unless you want to create an entirely different character. I'm done are arguing, Cooler is OBJECTIVELY a better character because he actually has a "character" lol

Not really. Because of Janemba's techniques, if you keep that, you don't need to come up with another character. That's what distinguishes him from the rest, he's basically a Marvel/DC character (with his matter and reality manipulation moves, a whole league of possibilities open up) in Dragon Ball. You can do a lot with that.

Now, what Cooler can add to the table besides contributing to Freeza's fatigue? If he's going to be evil, just use Freeza already.

And no, your opinion is not a fact.

[Extreme_kai]

“Interesting” and “compelling” are subjective terms and have no ground in any form of objectivity Extreme_kai... I actually find Super Janemba to be far more interesting and compelling BECAUSE he was a character that didn’t speak very much and the fact that he was literally born from all the evil contained and build up within that soul cleansing machine makes his story very interesting... (Much like Buu who had existed since time immemorial!) A very “mysterious” DEMON in indeed.. The fact that he had so little in common with the average folk in the multiverse is EXACTLY what made him so “interesting”, “compelling” and indeed, MYSTERIOUS, imo...

(Much more so than some young, primitive, random mutant of a random super powerful mortal alien race with some dumb transformations.)

I said more interesting and compelling which he certainly is compared to Janemba. Tell me, what is so interesting about Janemba outside of his moveset and design? Does his existence offer insight into the past of other major characters and lore in the series? Last I checked, being the Brother to Frieza and Son to King Cold is kinda a huge deal. Cooler has so much untapped potential while Janemba has zero unless you want to create an entirely different character. I'm done are arguing, Cooler is OBJECTIVELY a better character because he actually has a "character" lol

My problem is that Cooler’s character was just a smarter and more calm Frieza, which is kinda reductant when Frieza basically became Cooler’s character after the development he got in the TOP and Broly.

I hear a lot of people say this and I just don't get it. Why does being someone's brother make them a copy of their sibling? I think the issue here is that we've had so little screen time with Cooler outside of fighting, we barely got to see what kind of character he would be outside of "taking care of business". Look how much Frieza has changed since we first saw him on Namek, for better or worse we got more insight into his personality through just interacting with him more. I think Cooler already displayed some interesting attributes, the fact that he's an outcast, he has an inferiority complex towards his brother, etc. Also with Cooler just like Broly, tweaks can be made to his character, but I think overall Cooler just existing offer insight to Frieza, his clan, and the inner workings of the empire.

[Gt91]

It's Goku Day in Japan! Few hours until the announcement!

[Mad Swami]

I'd love a remake of the Gokuu Black arc. I just get the feeling that this won't happen.

It would feel rather strange. Especially seeing as they never remade the Universe 6 tournament as a movie. If so then I could see that happen as if to continue the films Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. However, I think it's for the best this doesn't happen. Personally.

[Extreme_kai]

Tell me, what is so interesting about Janemba outside of his moveset and design?

The fact that you can acknowledge that Janemba already possesses techniques and design means you're halfway there to understand what makes him a better character. Isn't the purpose of "reimagining" a character precisely to give them a better personality/motivation? That's what Janemba lacks, that's what using this character now would give to him (they attempted with Broly, and while he isn't all that better than his alternate dimension counterpart, it's already something, isn't?).

Just being a random kid turned into a mindless demonic monster is not interesting, it can offer insight on the soul-cleansing machine, but the kid himself is just random asf.

Wrong. Janemba is a smoke that needs a host and he found his host on a kid. Janemba is not a kid. Please watch the movie more carefully next time. Regardless, that origin can change in this dimension. They don't need to keep that.

Does his existence offer insight into the past of other major characters and lore in the series?

Does it need to offer that? Last I checked, no. However, he can offer (a new) insight and lore to the series.

Last I checked, being the Brother to Frieza and son to King Cold is kinda a huge deal in Dragonball.

Can you point where you checked? Because we learn that Freeza has an evil brother and that's it. They didn't make Cooler's existence all that impactful. If we take away the information that he's Freeza's brother, we won't lose anything. He's just another member of Freeza's race.

Controlling parts of an empire that affect billions of alien species is a huge deal in Dragonball.

Doesn't Freeza already do that? Do we really need yet another character "controlling parts of an empire"?

Cooler has so much untapped potential while Janemba has zero unless you want to create an entirely different character. I'm done are arguing, Cooler is OBJECTIVELY a better character because he actually has a "character" lol

Not really. Because of Janemba's techniques, if you keep that, you don't need to come up with another character. That's what distinguishes him from the rest, he's basically a Marvel/DC character (with his matter and reality manipulation moves, a whole league of possibilities open up) in Dragon Ball. You can do a lot with that.

Now, what Cooler can add to the table besides contributing to Freeza's fatigue? If he's going to be evil, just use Freeza already.

And no, your opinion is not a fact.

Not really, a character design is not character I.E personality. Anyone can create a cool-looking OC, but if he doesn't have an interesting character, motivation, connections to lore/in-universe characters, or talk, then what are you left with? A whole lot of nothing. Broly had major tweaks, but his father remained the same, his huge power level at birth remained the same and his being exile from Vegeta remained the same. Tweaks were made, but the tweaks required are far less than what would be necessary for Janemba. Broly still feels like Broly to me, a Janemba with a completely different backstory from the original is just an entirely different character, brought back just because of his design.

Cooler offers backstory as I said, on Frieza's past, the inner workings of the empire, Cooler's part of the empire if he has it. As I said it affects billions of creatures in the Dragonball universe. Suprise, but it's kinda a big deal to be the brother of Frieza, whose influence affects nearly every species in u7. I already explained the potential Cooler can offer, so I'll leave it at that, but spoilers it's more than Super Janemba could unless as I said you create something entirely different, but then you're not arguing for Super Janemba at all, you're just creating an uber lore monster character just to make the idea of him relevant.

Where does fatigue come for Frieza? How do you know Frieza would not like his brother? As far as we know Frieza could have looked highly towards his brother, and that's where the potential for his inclusion can provide. If you cannot see what it can provide despite me saying it 1000 times I can't help you. If a mute character with zero personality, that was a random accident used to promote Gogeta toys is enough for you then ok, have fun!

I'm not answering the same question again lol. I think people are being contrarian just for the sake of it. Cooler is a better character because he actually had motivation and an established connection to a major character/lore which in time lends itself to, exploratory narrative progression. If you want Janemba, just say he has a cool sword and that's why you want him to be in the movie, it's just as valid given that they want to sell toys, but don't get mad at me for wanting more than that.

[HeroR]

I said more interesting and compelling which he certainly is compared to Janemba. Tell me, what is so interesting about Janemba outside of his moveset and design? Does his existence offer insight into the past of other major characters and lore in the series? Last I checked, being the Brother to Frieza and Son to King Cold is kinda a huge deal. Cooler has so much untapped potential while Janemba has zero unless you want to create an entirely different character. I'm done are arguing, Cooler is OBJECTIVELY a better character because he actually has a "character" lol

My problem is that Cooler’s character was just a smarter and more calm Frieza, which is kinda reductant when Frieza basically became Cooler’s character after the development he got in the TOP and Broly.

I hear a lot of people say this and I just don't get it. Why does being someone's brother make them a copy of their sibling? I think the issue here is that we've had so little screen time with Cooler outside of fighting, we barely got to see what kind of character he would be outside of "taking care of business". Look how much Frieza has changed since we first saw him on Namek, for better or worse we got more insight into his personality through just interacting with him more. I think Cooler already displayed some interesting attributes, the fact that he's an outcast, he has an inferiority complex towards his brother, etc. Also with Cooler just like Broly, tweaks can be made to his character, but I think overall Cooler just existing offer insight to Frieza, his clan, and the inner workings of the empire.

Because that was literally what Cooler was in both of his Movies. He was Frieza, but smarter and calmer. Also, lot of what you named was dub text. JP Cooler didn’t have an inferior complex or saw himself as an outcast. He was Frieza who wanted to clear his clan’s name after Frieza got killed by a monkey.

[Trouser]

I don't really care who will be the main villain of this movie, just please let it be after or during EoZ...

Why are you people so obsessed with End of Z?

The "10 year period" is overstuffed with events and has no tension because of the time it takes place. End of Z is the territory that hasn't been touched and we don't know what will happen with characters afterwards.
And it's not "obssesion". It's just a need for things to change and evolve and not be stucked in the same timeframe forever.

[Extreme_kai]

My problem is that Cooler’s character was just a smarter and more calm Frieza, which is kinda reductant when Frieza basically became Cooler’s character after the development he got in the TOP and Broly.

I hear a lot of people say this and I just don't get it. Why does being someone's brother make them a copy of their sibling? I think the issue here is that we've had so little screen time with Cooler outside of fighting, we barely got to see what kind of character he would be outside of "taking care of business". Look how much Frieza has changed since we first saw him on Namek, for better or worse we got more insight into his personality through just interacting with him more. I think Cooler already displayed some interesting attributes, the fact that he's an outcast, he has an inferiority complex towards his brother, etc. Also with Cooler just like Broly, tweaks can be made to his character, but I think overall Cooler just existing offer insight to Frieza, his clan, and the inner workings of the empire.

Because that was literally what Cooler was in both of his Movies. He was Frieza, but smarter and calmer. Also, lot of what you named was dub text. JP Cooler didn’t have an inferior complex or saw himself as an outcast. He was Frieza who wanted to clear his clan’s name after Frieza got killed by a monkey.

If you don't spend enough time with a character outside of fighting, in a movie of all things (That was admittedly used to sell toys), then of course you will not get the dramatic characterization you're looking for. Cool! Thanks for letting me know that, Still doesn't change the potential I see in the character just by having a history with Frieza, but I appreciate you for correcting my misinterpretation of the dialogue. I'm not against people not liking, or not wanting to see Cooler in a new movie, I'm mainly just baffled by the Janemba stuff right now.

[HeroR]

I hear a lot of people say this and I just don't get it. Why does being someone's brother make them a copy of their sibling? I think the issue here is that we've had so little screen time with Cooler outside of fighting, we barely got to see what kind of character he would be outside of "taking care of business". Look how much Frieza has changed since we first saw him on Namek, for better or worse we got more insight into his personality through just interacting with him more. I think Cooler already displayed some interesting attributes, the fact that he's an outcast, he has an inferiority complex towards his brother, etc. Also with Cooler just like Broly, tweaks can be made to his character, but I think overall Cooler just existing offer insight to Frieza, his clan, and the inner workings of the empire.

Because that was literally what Cooler was in both of his Movies. He was Frieza, but smarter and calmer. Also, lot of what you named was dub text. JP Cooler didn’t have an inferior complex or saw himself as an outcast. He was Frieza who wanted to clear his clan’s name after Frieza got killed by a monkey.

If you don't spend enough time with a character outside of fighting, in a movie of all things (That was admittedly used to sell toys), then of course you will not get the dramatic characterization you're looking for. Cool! Thanks for letting me know that, Still doesn't change the potential I see in the character just by having a history with Frieza, but I appreciate you for correcting my misinterpretation of the dialogue. I'm not against people not liking, or not wanting to see Cooler in a new movie, I'm mainly just baffled by the Janemba stuff right now.

Using the movie line is kinda hallow when Beerus and Reboot Broly were movie characters. So it’s less about Cooler being a movie villain and more he was written as being Frieza so he’s really shallow. Even OG Broly had more going for him than Cooler since he wasn’t a mere expy.

Could they rework Cooler, sure. But you don’t need him go into Frieza’s history since they could have done that in Broly, but chose not to. That and Frieza screw over a lot of people to have a history with him.

I also don’t care about Janemba. People just like him because he looks cool and his moveset.

[sangofe]

Another accurate shot from Toei, this fanbase is fanatic, hysterical and might never understand... but why waste money and/or resources on a weekly anime, when you can invest more in movies to be released every 3 years with outstanding animation? Considering how bad to average was DBS animation, I can take the second option over the first at any time.

Also I believe it will be a original story as I don't think Toei would waste money adapting Toyotaro-only stuff that everyone knows how it ends.

You sure have a very unique way of expressing yourself.

[JulieYBM]

Coola could work...if they just make him different from Freeza. I think it'd be interesting if Coola was actually a good guy and Freeza kept this fact hidden from Gokuu and the others and convinced them to kill Coola for his sake. Maybe Coola wants to reform the empire and Freeza can't kill him by himself?

Then again, Coola taking over the empire, running it more efficiently and being a better emperor to the soldiers than Freeza ever was and then exiling Freeza would be hilarious. Just imagine Freeza being exiled, living on Earth and taking care of Bra?

[JewyB]

On the Cooler vs Janemba thing, as an outside observer. In the current versions we have of them, Cooler could have shot Goku down as a baby and prevented the entirity of the series, whilst Janemba... kinda giggles.... in a world full of colourful beans...

I like Janemba far more but Cooler definitely has more weight in the actual world of Dragon Ball, and thats just taking into consideration the first time we see him, not including his relations to other characters and his teammates. I'd love to see Janemba's skillset come into it, if it was animated the same way as Broly it would be gorgeous, but lets not pretend that skillset can't be stuck onto any character and still work.

Cooler has a history and is a character more involved in the world, but a classic brute force fighter, Janemba is fun to watch and has unique design elements, but could be any dude placed anywhere. One definitely has more characterisation than the other, and i find it odd people are arguing as though Janemba is a deep character. He's not, he's just fun to watch.

This does make Janemba a more appealing character to reboot, though, in my opinion, as a new character can basically be crafted onto his mostly blank canvas.

I typed more than i wanted to and now i dont want to talk about the other things and extend this essay!