Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Noah]

I can't be the only one who finds the fact that this will release nearly a decade after Battle of Gods downright terrifying.

Also, I find the vocal portion of people wanting some kind of rehash puzzling. We already had Freeza: Part II and Broli: Electric Boogaloo and people want Golden Cell and CanonCoola. Why the aversion to brand new original stories with new characters?

No, you're not, but remember this portion of the fanbase that you mentioned is only fond of Dragon Ball because of its fights, clashes, beam struggles and etc. They're not like us, interested in world building, character development and yes new people to become part of the main cast apart from the old Z team for the sake of nostalgia.

And unfortunately, because of them we had RoF as a sequel to BoG and Broly, a mix of fanservice that if had the same animation the last two lastest movies had would probably be the worst ranked movie we ever got in the franchise.

On the topic of what this movie is going to be about, I suspect it's going to be the Moro arc. When they say "unexpected character". I feel like this announcement is just a continuation of the grand tradition of the anime marketing to its audience while pretending the manga doesn't exist. Similar to how we pretty much never see a character in videogames before they appear in anime form.

Doing this as a movie also has the "benefit" for Toei of being able to do an extended retread for whenever we get a new TV series. Much like they did last time.

Please, that would be like shooting themselves on the foot. Doing a movie about a Toyotaro only story that everyone knows how it ends, even though it could be good to finally having some market sales regarding characters in Moro arc it would also be dumb to retread this same story when we get a new anime. Sure Toei knows that if they did a TV Special about Goku pissing in a tree, people would still buy it, but that's too much.

[Cold Skin]

I wish Toriyama would just retcon the manga ending altogether. Not to mention Uub would have surely lost potential relevance by now, only being the reincarnation of Buu who is hardly the be-all end-all final boss that he once was. Maybe they can work in some kind of Whis training/god power with him but as it stands so much has happened since Buu it seems pretty irrelevant now.

Don't worry too much about Oob and the original manga ending, a bunch of recent revelations have made him and his fight against Goku more relevant than ever. There's actually a very high probability that those few revelations will now protect his status (and the status of the original epilogue) as relevant no matter what happens next.

But of course, Oob is out of the picture for the unexpected character involved, he won't meet Goku and friends prematurely.
So I wonder who could be "a bit unexpected" to play a major role...

A lot of characters could show up and be considered unexpected, there's not much we can guess with just that: any movie character as a new version exactly like Broly (villain or good guy like Tapion) or any character featured in a previous arc (characters from other universes like Hit, Jiren, Cabba) could be involved...

I'm very happy to get a new movie, but I'm also thinking this is one more event that the manga will not feature, saying to readers "by the way, something happened in-between, go check the movie or the Anime Comics if you want to be up to speed".

[WittyUsername]

I am pretty curious to see how the Moro and Granolah stuff will be addressed in the animated world, but the last thing I’d want is for this movie to be an adaptation of either of those. This movie should be an original story that either acknowledges that the manga events already occurred or that completely ignores those events and goes in its own direction.

Besides, adapting a manga story that people weren’t very enthusiastic about to begin with doesn’t seem very commercially viable.

[HeroR]

I wish Toriyama would just retcon the manga ending altogether. Not to mention Uub would have surely lost potential relevance by now, only being the reincarnation of Buu who is hardly the be-all end-all final boss that he once was. Maybe they can work in some kind of Whis training/god power with him but as it stands so much has happened since Buu it seems pretty irrelevant now.

Don't worry too much about Oob and the original manga ending, a bunch of recent revelations have made him and his fight against Goku more relevant than ever. There's actually a very high probability that those few revelations will now protect his status (and the status of the original epilogue) as relevant no matter what happens next.

But of course, Oob is out of the picture for the unexpected character involved, he won't meet Goku and friends prematurely.
So I wonder who could be "a bit unexpected" to play a major role...

A lot of characters could show up and be considered unexpected, there's not much we can guess with just that: any movie character as a new version exactly like Broly (villain or good guy like Tapion) or any character featured in a previous arc (characters from other universes like Hit, Jiren, Cabba) could be involved...

I'm very happy to get a new movie, but I'm also thinking this is one more event that the manga will not feature, saying to readers "by the way, something happened in-between, go check the movie or the Anime Comics if you want to be up to speed".

They most likely won't because the Super manga isn't that popular even in Japan. Also not helping that outside of small snippets, the manga barely exists.

[BWri]

I am pretty curious to see how the Moro and Granolah stuff will be addressed in the animated world, but the last thing I’d want is for this movie to be an adaptation of either of those. This movie should be an original story that either acknowledges that the manga events already occurred or that completely ignores those events and goes in its own direction.

Besides, adapting a manga story that people weren’t very enthusiastic about to begin with doesn’t seem very commercially viable.

Hopefully it's a prequel to the Moro arc or non-canon to a potential anime version of the Moro arc. I don't want the anime to be handcuffed and placed before the events that occur in the movie. Ignoring would be more than fine though. All in all, I just want the movie to do its own thing.

[Jiren The Alpha]

May you post here that statement?

Spoiler:

Goku and Vegeta discuss how it's been hard to raise Goten and Trunks. Goku then responds: "Yeah, but that's means the world is in peace" which means that nothing problematic has happened in those 10 years which Super contradicts a lot.

Dragon ball character: *exist*
Fanbase: FANSERVICE!!!

- Bardock, the character that even the man himself liked to the point of including in his original work, so popular that even got lame sequel that he becomes SSJ, so was his game counterparts (XV, Heroes) Time Breaker Bardock where he reaches SSJ2, 3 and 4.

- Broly the most popular movie villain (had three), the character so damn overestimated through power debates (blame games on this matter) even though he would lose badly to the likes of Perfect Cell and Majin Vegeta. His influence was so big that led Toriyama to create a female counterpart and finally be conviced by Toei to create a new iteration of the character to fit on the modern series story.

- Gogeta, the second most popular Goku & Vegeta fusion. Had a small appearance in GT and like Broly had a usual presentation in games openings. After Movie 12, fans speculated through years that Gogeta would show up and guy and it happed on this recent movie.

So yea, if including these three characters in one movie is not fanservice, then I don't know what is called.

I'm only talking about Toriyama her.
- Bardock, the main protaganist's father and a character that Toriyama haven't written about. We haven't seen a backstory about Bardock and the saiyan's in Toriyama's vison.

- Broly, First time Toriyama have written a story about Broly, he got a new design and new edition to his backstory (the story about bah) and 2 new characters.

- Gogeta, a fusion technique and a character that existed in the buu arc (but Toei used him first in the Fusion reborn movie, thats how Vegito was born if i remember correctly), so why would they not use it against an opponent they can't beat on they own?

It's funny how back in the day people wanted old characters to be relevant and to come back (android 17) but now it's just "dumb fanservice" when ever that happens. Funny how everything that people wanted back in the day they got in Super .

[Gt91]

Was he taller? It's been awhile since I last read it but it didn't feel like he was taller. However, his hair in the manga is the same as Vegeta's hair.

He needs to stand out more, having his own unique hair would be very much welcome (or, if for some reason he really needs to be Vegeta's brother, give him Bardock TV Special's Vegeta's hair, you know, with the bangs, loved that hairstyle!).

Yes , i agree. More changes, more lore, more unique aesthetic

[MCDaveG]

Would be nice to get past the Epilogue, as I have fatigue from Goten and Trunks being kids and threats that don't matter.
Let Goten and Trunks be useless but with updated designs and let's see Uub and Pan and other characters being older, without Vegeta growing kingstache.

We are getting very close to the 30-year mark of the kids’ debut. That was fine when the series had been over for so long, but Battle of Gods released nearly a decade ago and they even seem to shrink slightly with the passage of time. I wish Toriyama would just retcon the manga ending altogether. Not to mention Uub would have surely lost potential relevance by now, only being the reincarnation of Buu who is hardly the be-all end-all final boss that he once was. Maybe they can work in some kind of Whis training/god power with him but as it stands so much has happened since Buu it seems pretty irrelevant now.

I meant mostly, that sure, their kid design is iconic for fans of the Z series, as it is the Goten and Trunks we grew up on, but as they are more and more useless even as Gotenks, I don't see the problem to toss them aside at least with their designs updated.
End of Z kinda hinted on their characterization with Goten wanted to date and GT built upon that and made it full-blown, but as GT doesn't matter in Toriyama's head, they can play with these characters for some fun gags and introduce some novelty with them being teens or whatever. But they don't matter now and design change might be great for new toys and merch at least.

[MCDaveG]

May you post here that statement?

Spoiler:

Goku and Vegeta discuss how it's been hard to raise Goten and Trunks. Goku then responds: "Yeah, but that's means the world is in peace" which means that nothing problematic has happened in those 10 years which Super contradicts a lot.

Dragon ball character: *exist*
Fanbase: FANSERVICE!!!

- Bardock, the character that even the man himself liked to the point of including in his original work, so popular that even got lame sequel that he becomes SSJ, so was his game counterparts (XV, Heroes) Time Breaker Bardock where he reaches SSJ2, 3 and 4.

- Broly the most popular movie villain (had three), the character so damn overestimated through power debates (blame games on this matter) even though he would lose badly to the likes of Perfect Cell and Majin Vegeta. His influence was so big that led Toriyama to create a female counterpart and finally be conviced by Toei to create a new iteration of the character to fit on the modern series story.

- Gogeta, the second most popular Goku & Vegeta fusion. Had a small appearance in GT and like Broly had a usual presentation in games openings. After Movie 12, fans speculated through years that Gogeta would show up and guy and it happed on this recent movie.

So yea, if including these three characters in one movie is not fanservice, then I don't know what is called.

I'm only talking about Toriyama her.
- Bardock, the main protaganist's father and a character that Toriyama haven't written about. We haven't seen a backstory about Bardock and the saiyan's in Toriyama's vison.

- Broly, First time Toriyama have written a story about Broly, he got a new design and new edition to his backstory (the story about bah) and 2 new characters.

- Gogeta, a fusion technique and a character that existed in the buu arc (but Toei used him first in the Fusion reborn movie, thats how Vegito was born if i remember correctly), so why would they not use it against an opponent they can't beat on they own?

It's funny how back in the day people wanted old characters to be relevant and to come back (android 17) but now it's just "dumb fanservice" when ever that happens. Funny how everything that people wanted back in the day they got in Super .

17 coming back was actually pretty cool and I liked the Tournament of Power, that made other character relevant. For example, Roshi joining the fight in this day and age after being kinda sidelined since the 22nd Budokai? Even tho the end of the arc felt kinda rushed and my only gripe is, that they completely skipped Goten and Trunks being rangers on the island and made the ending to Super as some fast epilogue, it was actually a moment when Super really found it's footing production wise.

[Skar]

It's funny how back in the day people wanted old characters to be relevant and to come back (android 17) but now it's just "dumb fanservice" when ever that happens. Funny how everything that people wanted back in the day they got in Super .

You're implying the fans who wanted these to happen are the same ones who are against them now which is another example of a needless sweeping generalization about the entire fan base to dismiss criticism. Toriyama brings up Broly's popularity as to one of the main reasons why he rebooted him and the director talked about appealing to fans. Literally almost every revival focuses on fan service and returning popular characters so pointing out that it applies to this revival isn't new. It comes down to personal preference if it's considered a homage or "dumb fan service". Some fans like this approach but others don't and you shouldn't really have an issue with that. Even when discussing a single fan's opinion, it varies since there was some fan service in DBS I liked and others that I didn't.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Fan service isn't an inherently bad thing, it's when fan favourite characters are brought back for superficial reasons like a big fight with minimal story (i.e. Resurrection F) that the novelty wears off, but it can work if it adds to their story or Toriyama's world.

Super Broly had plenty of action, but it worked because they gave the new Broly a unique Tarzan-esque character arc that was rather likeable. People can criticize 17's return to Super, but it at least built on his post-Cell arc life and what he wanted for himself and his family, I actually like him more now because of how he was written in the Tournament of Power.

[Xeogran]

Anyone would like to see Frost here? He should definitely be planning revenge against Frieza for the latter's betrayal during ToP. Maybe if Cooler indeed appears there, these two will make a pact since both could possibly be against Frieza?

This could potentially become the Ryusei Nakao war

[Dragono]

I have long made peace with what modern dragon ball whats to be. I take the good and leave the bad.


However, I don't understand why Battle of Gods was so expansive and move the franchise forward if that wasn't what they wanted to series to be.

Eh, its, probably going to be cooler, he had 2 movies.

[Hugo Boss]

By “slightly unexpected character”, I think it would be a good opportunity to tell Yamoshi’s story. If it was a new character, he probably would have made it more clear. A old movie character wouldn’t be as appealing as Broly or Freeza, in my opinion.

[Yuji]

Perhaps a "slightly unexpected character" means only that someone like Gohan or Piccolo, someone from the side cast, gets a bigger role than usual in modern Toriyama stories. Perhaps it's not indicating necessarily the canonization of an old character or the return of a defunct one.

[LoganForkHands73]

What kinds of new antagonist archetypes would you like to see this time? One recurring thing in Super is that most of the antagonists lean on the "anti-villainous" side, having less evil intentions than the majority of the original series' villains. Let's run it down:

• Beerus

-- Not evil, more of an inscrutable force-of-nature who just wants to find a worthy rival and live the hedonistic life. Quickly becomes friends with the gang.

• Freeza

-- Pure evil as always, but has a personal vendetta against Goku and gradually learns some sense of comradery with him across later arcs.

• Champa and Team Universe 6

-- Basically "the rival sports team" as Dragon Ball characters. Most of them are actually good guys (except Frost in the anime), and Hit may be an assassin but he proves to be an honourable adversary.

• Zamasu

-- Has a negative character arc as we see him descend into genocidal villainy, though thanks to timey-wimey bullshit we also have the mystery of Goku Black which forms a huge part of his initial intrigue.

• Jiren

-- Not innately villainous at all (in the manga, at least), actually a superhero in his own dimension, but he represents an insurmountable wall for Goku to conquer. Also has an arc of learning to grow from his own selfishness and trust others.

• Zeno (and the Tournament of Power in general)

-- Besides Jiren, the main antagonist of the Universe Survival arc is the setting of the Tournament of Power itself, and how Zeno callously pits all the universes' reluctant champions against each other in this chaotic free-for-all frenzy.

• Broly (and Paragus)

-- Broly subverts the expectation of being pure evil as he's just misunderstood and coerced into his father's revenge scheme. Paragus also represents a fallen hero archetype, as his mission to save Broly starts off as noble but while isolated on Vampa he quickly gets corrupted and driven insane by his grudge against the Vegetas.

• Moro

-- Basically the only straightforward "pure evil" enemy in Super so far.

• Granola (?)

-- While his fate is still on the cards, Granola seems to be set up as another negative character arc of him being consumed by his need for revenge.

• The Heeters

-- These guys are an interesting new breed, being ambitious Machiavellian types looking to rule the universe through knowledge and political manoeuvring.

What could be next, I wonder?

[Yuji]

What could be next, I wonder?

I think Hearts is one of the more interesting non-canon characters considering the mythology Super has created really lends itself well to his particular archetype of wanting to overthrow the Gods because of their petty decisions. I'd like to see him, or at least a reworked character with the same ambitions.

[Gt91]

Anyone would like to see Frost here? He should definitely be planning revenge against Frieza for the latter's betrayal during ToP. Maybe if Cooler indeed appears there, these two will make a pact since both could possibly be against Frieza?

This could potentially become the Ryusei Nakao war

Absolutely! I think he would fit in an U6 story, against Cabba and the others.
There are a lot of possibilities for this movie, really. They have a great number of characters that could shine again. Imagine Kefla ss3, new powers for Hit and the others. A lot of stuff.

[HeroR]

Fan service isn't an inherently bad thing, it's when fan favourite characters are brought back for superficial reasons like a big fight with minimal story (i.e. Resurrection F) that the novelty wears off, but it can work if it adds to their story or Toriyama's world.

Super Broly had plenty of action, but it worked because they gave the new Broly a unique Tarzan-esque character arc that was rather likeable. People can criticize 17's return to Super, but it at least built on his post-Cell arc life and what he wanted for himself and his family, I actually like him more now because of how he was written in the Tournament of Power.

Depends, Resurrection 'F' remains very popular. It's only 'hardcore' Dragon Ball fans that gets on it for its light story. The same reason why this site had a meltdown over Broly's return while the rest of the fandom basically had a 'there's a god' moment.

For the most part the Dragon Ball fandom is in two parts. Fans here who want lore and obsessed with the EOZ and Uub and the casual fans who just want to see people fight. Which is why Resurrection 'F' was made the way it was because many people complained about Battle of Gods being boring because it took too long to get to Beerus vs Goku.

[radicalzenigma]

Would be nice to get past the Epilogue, as I have fatigue from Goten and Trunks being kids and threats that don't matter.
Let Goten and Trunks be useless but with updated designs and let's see Uub and Pan and other characters being older, without Vegeta growing kingstache.

We are getting very close to the 30-year mark of the kids’ debut. That was fine when the series had been over for so long, but Battle of Gods released nearly a decade ago and they even seem to shrink slightly with the passage of time. I wish Toriyama would just retcon the manga ending altogether. Not to mention Uub would have surely lost potential relevance by now, only being the reincarnation of Buu who is hardly the be-all end-all final boss that he once was. Maybe they can work in some kind of Whis training/god power with him but as it stands so much has happened since Buu it seems pretty irrelevant now.

I see Dragon Ball in the same place as where the new LOTR series is about to be. They can't touch anything already written and they have to stay well away from anything from the trilogy, but I get this because Tolkien is dead and now longer able to write anything new. However, in Dragon Ball's case, Toriyama is still here, why can't we get out of this small 10-year gap and progress past EoZ? At this point there's not a lot left of time left till the end of Z and there's already some inconsistencies. I remember in EoZ Bulma and/or Vegeta mentioning they haven't seen Goku in 5 years. As of the latest manga chapter we're in Age 780 potentially 781. EoZ happens in 784, so that 5 year line can no longer be true.