"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DiscountDabi]

-This confirms that whis has taught them a lot, huh?


My problem with granola ... is that it has literally gotten great power but he shouldn't know how to use it ... since he don't even know the techniques ... that he're using
At least Zamasu had to further develop his power through training since Goku's body was new to him, however he learned his own techniques
literally granola has it easy ... but I have to admire the fact that he has developed his vision of the right eye

Its more so the means of which he attained his power. He basically traded 150 years of his life for 150 years worth of training. It makes sense that he knows how to fight.

[Lionel]

I really enjoyed Granolah's knowledge and exploitation of vital points. Hit executed similar manoeuvres in the anime but this is the first time witnessing it in the manga. At least Granolah is proving to be more dynamic so far when it comes to his abilities. I too hope that his personality doesn't devolve into a self-constructed bubble of superiority and incomprehensible rage towards anything that is able to defy his newfound strength.

This arc's conflict is still only just beginning. I hope we see Freeza make an appearance as Granolah's intentions are so deeply rooted in pursuing the tyrant.

[Tai Lung]

-This confirms that whis has taught them a lot, huh?


My problem with granola ... is that it has literally gotten great power but he shouldn't know how to use it ... since he don't even know the techniques ... that he're using
At least Zamasu had to further develop his power through training since Goku's body was new to him, however he learned his own techniques
literally granola has it easy ... but I have to admire the fact that he has developed his vision of the right eye

Its more so the means of which he attained his power. He basically traded 150 years of his life for 150 years worth of training. It makes sense that he knows how to fight.

the problem is that he should have the knowledge of the techniques ... but he explains that he can "use" them without knowing the techniques.

[DBZ Macky]

Well that chapter felt short. We didn't get all that much further narratively speaking. There were some nice visuals, though.
I'm a little disappointed that Toyotaro managed to find a way to have Goku go "look at all my forms" again. Though I suppose SS2 and SS3 (and UI Sign/UI so far) weren't involved this time, so there's a slight improvement at least. It's also getting a little stale to see that Goku and Vegeta are once again refusing to work together because lol, but at least it's not Vegeta rushing in, I guess. Of course, Vegeta seems to be taking on the role of exposition guy, so that's probably why.

My thoughts exactly. Even though it was cool to see Goku trying to use UI in base and failing, he should've powered up straight to Blue and beyond after already wasting a Senzu. This is glacial pacing for a monthly Manga.

- UI is a techinque more than a trasformation at this point, or both?

UI is a technique that can be unlocked through special training, or by pushing yourself far beyond your limits in battle, which is what Goku did with the silver transformation.

And to be fair, since Goku kind of already "mastered" the technique (i.e the Silver form), he only needed to learn how to apply what he already knew to his other forms.

On a sidenote, Goku is using regular Blue against Granolah, huh. Doesn't he need to use the completed version so as not to waste his energy? Have Toyo forgot about that? Let's see if the next chapter alludes to it.

Looking forward to Goku going "This is a regular Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, and this is a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan..." next chapter.

Also probably not intentional on his part, but definitely seems like Toyotarou read Naruto and took a lot of inspiration from Neji.

[SupremeKai25]

My problem with granola ... is that it has literally gotten great power but he shouldn't know how to use it ... since he don't even know the techniques ... that he're using
At least Zamasu had to further develop his power through training since Goku's body was new to him, however he learned his own techniques
literally granola has it easy ... but I have to admire the fact that he has developed his vision of the right eye

Agreed, this is what I have been saying since the beginning. Granolah seems like a brat to me, someone who thinks that having the strongest power level somehow makes up for the abysmal lack of talent and skill (nevermind the fact that Super is a show about Skill > Power, more so than DBZ).

For all the hate Zamasu gets both in-universe and out of universe, it cannot be denied that he worked hard to get where he was. Sure he stole Goku's body but he had to train rigorously in order to increase his strength. The manga portrays him as even more of an underdog, since initially he couldn't even use Super Saiyan and had to get beat up by Trunks regularly in order to grow stronger via Zenkai boosts.

Granolah is basically Zamasu if he could instantly activate Super Saiyan Rosé as soon as he switched bodies with Goku.

[DiscountDabi]

As a powerscaler it’s interesting that Goku said whatever technique granolah uses is Faster than Instantaneous Movement. Which by all means should be impossible given its instant.

[GodVegetto91]

Chuquita is going to LOVE this chapter based on Goku’s and Vegeta’s little moment!

Even I thought it was cute and unexpected to see what Vegeta did for him!

I did enjoy it! Also Vegeta providing his reason for why Goku should try first.

This arc also really has a Z movies feel to it. Movie 13 inspired.

I knew it!

[Grimlock]

I don’t think that is the only interesting thing about the arc but it does feel weird that it being Bardock won’t play a part in the present story at all.

Glad to hear you're being able to enjoy these new sagas! Unfortunately, I can only enjoy a bit of this and a bit of that. Like Uub's presence and Dragon Ball Online's Yadorats, for example. I can't enjoy the whole thing, though. Too much of the same thing...

The only thing about this saga so far that gets my attention is the possibility of Bardock/Saiyans playing a major role so I'd like that to be done at least in a satisfactory way, you know.

Looking forward to Goku going "This is a regular Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, and this is a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan..." next chapter.

That would be a pretty hilarious and cool way to introduce Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2. They can't miss the opportunity to say something like this!

[ZombieVito]

Either Goku used Incomplete Blue for some reason or Toyo did a mistake.

[Kinokima]

I don’t think that is the only interesting thing about the arc but it does feel weird that it being Bardock won’t play a part in the present story at all.

Glad to hear you're being able to enjoy these new sagas! Unfortunately, I can only enjoy a bit of this and a bit of that. Like Uub's presence and Dragon Ball Online's Yadorats, for example. I can't enjoy the whole thing, though. Too much of the same thing...

The only thing about this saga so far that gets my attention is the possibility of Bardock/Saiyans playing a major role so I'd like that to be done at least in a satisfactory way, you know.

I was agreeing with your main point about Bardock just didn’t agree with you statement as a whole and felt the need to clarify that. Enjoyment always comes down to our individual tastes after all.

[Koitsukai]

I doubt the Bardock-Goku link will come up in the future. If it didn't ring any bell on Granola after standing right in front of him and fight him for a while, then that's that. And we know Goku can't go ape mode, so Grannie recognizing the resemblance of the apes is out the window as well.

Sure, Vegeta might bring it up when Goku loses and he has to step in, but I doubt he'll mention Bardock. It seems like it was just an easter egg.

And if Granola later on, goes "hey, you do look familiar... ", then clearly Bardock didn't leave an unforgettable mark on him, or he would've recognized Goku on the spot.

[ssj3kakarot]

As a powerscaler it’s interesting that Goku said whatever technique granolah uses is Faster than Instantaneous Movement. Which by all means should be impossible given its instant.

This is one of the only things that botherd me in the entire chapter.....Instant is instant. It takes no time. You'd have to essentially go back in time, or move before hand in order to do that. Which might be an in-Universe explaniation...Grannie's eye can see Goku's blood, therefore, could see the nanoseconds of motion before he shot the blast, thus actually leaving the spot before Goku shot? That's my head cannon, anyway.

[Kinokima]

I doubt the Bardock-Goku link will come up in the future. If it didn't ring any bell on Granola after standing right in front of him and fight him for a while, then that's that. And we know Goku can't go ape mode, so Grannie recognizing the resemblance of the apes is out the window as well.

Sure, Vegeta might bring it up when Goku loses and he has to step in, but I doubt he'll mention Bardock. It seems like it was just an easter egg.

And if Granola later on, goes "hey, you do look familiar... ", then clearly Bardock didn't leave an unforgettable mark on him, or he would've recognized Goku on the spot.

Perhaps the trauma made him remember them as Apes but not their Saiyan faces

It’s a long shot I know but still possible

[Polyphase Avatron]

As a powerscaler it’s interesting that Goku said whatever technique granolah uses is Faster than Instantaneous Movement. Which by all means should be impossible given its instant.

This is one of the only things that botherd me in the entire chapter.....Instant is instant. It takes no time. You'd have to essentially go back in time, or move before hand in order to do that. Which might be an in-Universe explaniation...Grannie's eye can see Goku's blood, therefore, could see the nanoseconds of motion before he shot the blast, thus actually leaving the spot before Goku shot? That's my head cannon, anyway.

What if he has a technique like Hit's time skip, but it can actually shift him back through time a fraction of a second?

[ssj3kakarot]

As a powerscaler it’s interesting that Goku said whatever technique granolah uses is Faster than Instantaneous Movement. Which by all means should be impossible given its instant.

This is one of the only things that botherd me in the entire chapter.....Instant is instant. It takes no time. You'd have to essentially go back in time, or move before hand in order to do that. Which might be an in-Universe explaniation...Grannie's eye can see Goku's blood, therefore, could see the nanoseconds of motion before he shot the blast, thus actually leaving the spot before Goku shot? That's my head cannon, anyway.

What if he has a technique like Hit's time skip, but it can actually shift him back through time a fraction of a second?

It's possible. They kind of wrote him to have whatever powers they want at this point. My point was as a pure speed feat, isn't it technically impossible to be faster than instant? Literally zero time passes, as it's instant.

[Polyphase Avatron]

This is one of the only things that botherd me in the entire chapter.....Instant is instant. It takes no time. You'd have to essentially go back in time, or move before hand in order to do that. Which might be an in-Universe explaniation...Grannie's eye can see Goku's blood, therefore, could see the nanoseconds of motion before he shot the blast, thus actually leaving the spot before Goku shot? That's my head cannon, anyway.

What if he has a technique like Hit's time skip, but it can actually shift him back through time a fraction of a second?

It's possible. They kind of wrote him to have whatever powers they want at this point. My point was as a pure speed feat, isn't it technically impossible to be faster than instant? Literally zero time passes, as it's instant.

Unless they retcon it to have technically never been 'instant'. Or they just mean he's acting faster than Goku can think in order to use the technique. Or the time travel idea I suggested.

[ssj3kakarot]

What if he has a technique like Hit's time skip, but it can actually shift him back through time a fraction of a second?

It's possible. They kind of wrote him to have whatever powers they want at this point. My point was as a pure speed feat, isn't it technically impossible to be faster than instant? Literally zero time passes, as it's instant.

Unless they retcon it to have technically never been 'instant'. Or they just mean he's acting faster than Goku can think in order to use the technique. Or the time travel idea I suggested.

I'm down for this option.

[LoganForkHands73]

Either Goku used Incomplete Blue for some reason or Toyo did a mistake.

Damn, you're right, I didn't even clock the little "ki-globs". Have there been other instances of Incomplete Blue returning accidentally?

My first reaction to this chapter is... mild disappointment, I do have to say. Granola makes a splash with his pressure-point based fighting style, that's nice. However, it's the same old structure for the last several storylines of Goku and Vegeta meeting some new asshole, they rigidly take turns fighting him, they gradually go through the old transformations, the enemy shows off a trump card, P A N I K. It's been a while since Goku was the frontman instead of Vegeta, which is neat I guess. I wasn't really expecting anything too different, but it is very much going through the motions. I was reading a bit of wisdom Toriyama gave to Toyotaro which was to take familiar concepts and tweak them slightly. Alas, every arc introduction is seemingly starting to gel into the exact same thing without much "tweaking" to be found.

While I could 100% get behind the idea of Goku using Ultra Instinct in his base form, the line about it becoming "more accurate in Super Saiyan" does just seem like another unnecessary convolution. What about Super Saiyan God makes Goku's movements sharper? Unless... oh god... Not 'Super Ultra Instinct', lord please help me no...

I do kinda agree with some criticisms I'm seeing that it doesn't make much sense for Granola to have this level of mastery of his new power, but I get the feeling Toyo is building to the moment where Granola gets called out for lack of training/stamina/talent. We'll see where this goes.

[Lionel]

Here's a question -- would these precision strikes of Granolah's work without his current power or does he need to be at a certain threshold for them to be felt? I understand that the eyes are a vulnerable point in Kyusho Jitsu which could be struck. Adding to that, exploiting the radial and ulnar nerves could inhibit Goku's ability to manoeuvre his limbs which I wouldn't mind seeing Granolah pull off.

[TKA]

This was a nothing chapter.

And relegating Vegeta to his role from the original Broly movie where he stands aside and exposits lore is trite.

Granolah's characterization also leaves much to be desired. In his debut chapters, he got to the point. There's no reason for him to be toying with his enemies, especially now that he's under a clock.

I'm also still very much against the idea that you could trade lifespan for a power boost that makes you magnitudes above fucking Jiren. If that's the case, do that whenever a new threat shows up, and then use the balls to wish the dead person back.