Opinions on the original Funi Dragon Ball dub

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

To be honest, I think I get where MyVisionity is coming from, to a certain extent in regards to replacement score vs original; the OG Funi Z dub with the replacement score is the experience intended by Funimation in 1999-2002, whereas the "Remastered" version with the Kikuchi score is like trying to polish a turd; it's really just a waste of polish, and trying to turn something into another thing that it was never meant to be.

If Funi had any interest in doing a proper dub, they would have had to start from scratch, so instead they sort of pandered to the hardcore crowd by bringing in the original score, and they pandered to what the actors wanted (mainly Chris Sabat, from what I've observed) by allowing a limited amount of redubbing of dialogue, but ultimately none of this really amounted to anything productive, and Kai would end up being a far better version of what "Remastered" was sort of pretending to be.

As for how OG DB fits into this, I have no idea. Funi's handling of the original series never made sense to me. I've openly theorised about a million different ways it could make sense, but I think the reality of it is that Funi's crew had no idea what to do with the show, and it really shows. That dub is a fucking mess; it can't decide from one scene to another whether it wants to be a 4Kids-style TV dub (complete with the original score) or a Funi Z-style uncut dub except without the replacement score.
I don't get why so many people see this dub as such a step up from Funi's work on Z and GT, it's just as bad as those two, just more confused, and originally produced with the original score, a decision that still baffles me to this day.

The score thing is what really amazes me, because other than the old dub of eps 1-13 and Movie 1 from 1994/1995 the original series didn't have a replacement score forced unto it while both Z and GT did. Kikuchi's music being left intact seems so unlike the way that FUNi was operating at that point in regard to the series, so even with the dub not being good overall it was a surprising decision especially in that early span of a few years.

[MasenkoHA]

To be honest, I think I get where MyVisionity is coming from, to a certain extent in regards to replacement score vs original; the OG Funi Z dub with the replacement score is the experience intended by Funimation in 1999-2002,

But what experience did Funimation intend? Their own motivation of creating a new score is “with our own score we can make royalties every second it is played. It’s not like Funimation had any true vision for Dragon Ball Z other than “whatever we think will make us the most money” none of Funimation’s scores has any identity other than “This is what kids thinks is cool right?” And yeah at the end of the day the original score doesn’t make the Z dub good. The correct music doesn’t change stupid dialog or bad acting but it is one less assault on the ears.

I don't get why so many people see this dub as such a step up from Funi's work on Z and GT, it's just as bad as those two, just more confused, and originally produced with the original score, a decision that still baffles me to this day.

It is a step up though. A very small step up that doesn’t save the dub and make it good but a step up none the less.

It’s like do I want to drink flat soda or flat soda that I just saw someone spit in? I’ll drink the flat soda but I’d rather have soda that isn’t flat and hasn’t been spat in.

[jjgp1112]

Right, I don't get this "all or nothing" mentality. Small steps are what leads to improvement, and anything is a step in the right direction, even if the rest of the product isn't up to par.

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

[MasenkoHA]

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

Yu Yu Hakusho is probably the best comparison to the OG Dragon Ball dub. A step in the right direction but not quite the quality Funimation would later be known for.


I do think Funimation had tried to do right by Dragon Ball in the “Well this won’t sell as well as Z might as well try to appeal to the more hardcore anime fans” it’s just well Barry Watson and general incompetence all around and the still relatively inexperienced cast (yeah they improved but they really only had two years of experience by that point) kind of doomed the dub. To this day I’ll never understand the logic of downplaying the sexuality when the dvds have a TV14 rating on them (and no it can’t be because of the Toonami airings as the Toonami edit often softened already tame dialog) but I imagine it’s the same wish washy logic where uncut DBZ still refused to have any swearing until circa 2003 and still downplayed death at times. Having Roshi ask to walk Bulma around the beach instead of touching her boobs isn’t going to change the fact that Oolong!Bulma still ends up flashing him.

The quality of the scripts really did just seem to depend on the writer. Ward Perry, Crystal Batten, and Jared Hedges usually turned in good work but Christopher Neel and Sean Teague not so much. And unfortunately Teague ending up as the main writer kind of killed the dub.

[jjgp1112]

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

Yu Yu Hakusho is probably the best comparison to the OG Dragon Ball dub. A step in the right direction but not quite the quality Funimation would later be known for.


I do think Funimation had tried to do right by Dragon Ball in the “Well this won’t sell as well as Z might as well try to appeal to the more hardcore anime fans” it’s just well Barry Watson and general incompetence all around and the still relatively inexperienced cast (yeah they improved but they really only had two years of experience by that point) kind of doomed the dub. To this day I’ll never understand the logic of downplaying the sexuality when the dvds have a TV14 rating on them (and no it can’t be because of the Toonami airings as the Toonami edit often softened already tame dialog) but I imagine it’s the same wish washy logic where uncut DBZ still refused to have any swearing until circa 2003 and still downplayed death at times. Having Roshi ask to walk Bulma around the beach instead of touching her boobs isn’t going to change the fact that Oolong!Bulma still ends up flashing him.

The quality of the scripts really did just seem to depend on the writer. Ward Perry, Crystal Batten, and Jared Hedges usually turned in good work but Christopher Neel and Sean Teague not so much. And unfortunately Teague ending up as the main writer kind of killed the dub.

The script for the the 23rd TB arc is notably waaaaaaay more fucked up and out there than just about everything else, too. Like already mentioned, there's the whole "alien" thing, Goku's cheesy ass proposal, and general chicanery.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

Yu Yu Hakusho is probably the best comparison to the OG Dragon Ball dub. A step in the right direction but not quite the quality Funimation would later be known for.


I do think Funimation had tried to do right by Dragon Ball in the “Well this won’t sell as well as Z might as well try to appeal to the more hardcore anime fans” it’s just well Barry Watson and general incompetence all around and the still relatively inexperienced cast (yeah they improved but they really only had two years of experience by that point) kind of doomed the dub. To this day I’ll never understand the logic of downplaying the sexuality when the dvds have a TV14 rating on them (and no it can’t be because of the Toonami airings as the Toonami edit often softened already tame dialog) but I imagine it’s the same wish washy logic where uncut DBZ still refused to have any swearing until circa 2003 and still downplayed death at times. Having Roshi ask to walk Bulma around the beach instead of touching her boobs isn’t going to change the fact that Oolong!Bulma still ends up flashing him.

The quality of the scripts really did just seem to depend on the writer. Ward Perry, Crystal Batten, and Jared Hedges usually turned in good work but Christopher Neel and Sean Teague not so much. And unfortunately Teague ending up as the main writer kind of killed the dub.

The script for the the 23rd TB arc is notably waaaaaaay more fucked up and out there than just about everything else, too. Like already mentioned, there's the whole "alien" thing, Goku's cheesy ass proposal, and general chicanery.

It seems that arc in particular is the worst of the dub script wise than all the others combined, they really seemed to drop the ball most of all there.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Because its DEE BEE ZEE BECUZ IT HAZ A GROWNUP GOKU.

[MyVisionity]

Right, I don't get this "all or nothing" mentality. Small steps are what leads to improvement, and anything is a step in the right direction, even if the rest of the product isn't up to par.

Small steps in the right direction? What kind of shit is that? It's a business, not arts and crafts. If FUNimation don't want to get stomped out by the competition, they have to play hard and that means big fucking swings. If the rest of the product ain't up to par, then you chuck it out the window. And if for some reason you don't, then don't insult the consumers or embarrass yourself with the competition by coming out with half-assed bullshit products. Just go hard in the opposite direction instead. At least then you can be honest with everybody.

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

And look at how Hakusho turned out. Another half-assed release. At least with GT, they took it to an extreme, dumb or not. They saw what was working for them and pushed forward without compromise. That's how you do.

[jjgp1112]

Right, I don't get this "all or nothing" mentality. Small steps are what leads to improvement, and anything is a step in the right direction, even if the rest of the product isn't up to par.

Small steps in the right direction? What kind of shit is that? It's a business, not arts and crafts. If FUNimation don't want to get stomped out by the competition, they have to play hard and that means big fucking swings. If the rest of the product ain't up to par, then you chuck it out the window. And if for some reason you don't, then don't insult the consumers or embarrass yourself with the competition by coming out with half-assed bullshit products. Just go hard in the opposite direction instead. At least then you can be honest with everybody.

I think Dragon Ball is more in line with their Yu Yu Hakusho dub which started at the exact same time, where they were starting to make the right choices but still punching things up liberally. On the flipside, GT was clearly Barry Watson trying to keep in line with the DBZ philosophy since it was still action oriented and a continuation, but taking it to the dumbest extreme.

And look at how Hakusho turned out. Another half-assed release. At least with GT, they took it to an extreme, dumb or not. They saw what was working for them and pushed forward without compromise. That's how you do.

Not a single word you just wrote makes any kind of sense in the context of the post you replied to. The "product not up to par" that i am speaking of is *dun dun dun* THE DRAGON BALL Z DUB. If Dragon Ball is half-assed, than DBZ is as no-assed as Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus.

And I like how you singled out Yu Yu Hakusho as evidence that it doesn't work when it's not only one of their most successful properties, but its dub is strangely well regarded even in spite of its creative liberties in part because of the bare minimum of respect given to it.

The only reason Dragon Ball isn't as successful as Z in America is because of its perception as a prequel and it's the part of the series without all of the big earth destroying blasts and transformations that has defined DB's image. Even in Japan and other countries that got the series faithfully in order, original DB doesn't get even a tenth as much attention as Z.

[MasenkoHA]

Right, I don't get this "all or nothing" mentality. Small steps are what leads to improvement, and anything is a step in the right direction, even if the rest of the product isn't up to par.

Small steps in the right direction? What kind of shit is that? It's a business, not arts and crafts. If FUNimation don't want to get stomped out by the competition, they have to play hard and that means big fucking swings. If the rest of the product ain't up to par, then you chuck it out the window. And if for some reason you don't, then don't insult the consumers or embarrass yourself with the competition by coming out with half-assed bullshit products. Just go hard in the opposite direction instead. At least then you can be honest with everybody.

.......

Seriously, do you just throw words into a blender and spit them out?

You do realize “a step in the right direction” applies to businesses all the fucking time?

Does it not say anything to you that Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT are the goddamn outliers when it comes to Funimation’s approach to dubbing anime?

Do you honestly think if Funimation, as a company whose interested in making money, thought their approach to Z and GT, was sustainable they wouldn’t do it to ALL their acquisitions?


They didn’t do it all correctly so they should just go all out on making it terrible is one of these stupidest damn things things I’ve ever heard.

And look at how Hakusho turned out. Another half-assed release. At least with GT, they took it to an extreme, dumb or not. They saw what was working for them and pushed forward without compromise. That's how you do.

And Yuyu Hakusho is one of their most beloved imports meanwhile GT isn’t exactly well regarded for that damn rap song.

[MyVisionity]

And I like how you singled out Yu Yu Hakusho as evidence that it doesn't work when it's not only one of their most successful properties, but its dub is strangely well regarded even in spite of its creative liberties in part because of the bare minimum of respect given to it.

It's commercially successful, yes, but in terms of faithfulness, internal consistency, integrity? Half-assed. The audiences deserve better than the bare minimum of respect.

And as you said, it's "strangely" well regarded in spite of the creative liberties. Meaning there's nothing straightforward or normal going on here at all. Funimation went half-assed and got lucky with YYH but the end result is still the end result. Even more deception and another divided fanbase. Where's the authenticity?

[jjgp1112]

And as you said, it's "strangely" well regarded in spite of the creative liberties. Meaning there's nothing straightforward or normal going on here at all. Funimation went half-assed and got lucky with YYH but the end result is still the end result. Even more deception and another divided fanbase. Where's the authenticity?

So lemme get this straight - what the audience actually deserves is no respect, not the bare minimum?

I'm done. You're quite clearly fucking with us, evident in how you basically ignore every part of posts pointing out your use of insane troll logic.

[MyVisionity]

You do realize “a step in the right direction” applies to businesses all the fucking time?

I meant *small* steps specifically. I was arguing for more extreme steps. And I know businesses might do it sometimes, but I would imagine that if they took the "small steps" approach *all* the time then they would be eaten alive.

They didn’t do it all correctly so they should just go all out on making it terrible is one of these stupidest damn things things I’ve ever heard.

Honestly though if you've gone so far in one direction, why not just keep going and hit that extreme, so that way you not only reach the most serious, devoted, die-hard fans from either side, but you also end up staying true to your vision and see all the hard work and effort fulfilled. As opposed to stopping short of a complete and authentic product and turning around to put out some middle-of-the-road shit that's either dishonest, unsatisfying, or commercially successful but critically mixed.

[GhostEmperorX]

Spoiler:

Small steps in the right direction? What kind of shit is that? It's a business, not arts and crafts. If FUNimation don't want to get stomped out by the competition, they have to play hard and that means big fucking swings. If the rest of the product ain't up to par, then you chuck it out the window. And if for some reason you don't, then don't insult the consumers or embarrass yourself with the competition by coming out with half-assed bullshit products. Just go hard in the opposite direction instead. At least then you can be honest with everybody.

A business based on arts and crafts. No matter how soulless you make it out to be. And what competition do you speak of when they had the DB franchise? In fact they would be trailblazers in a sea of butchered products that always replace the score (among other things) had they not replaced it for their licensed IP’s.
This absurd drivel of yours doesn’t change the fact that replacement scores simply weren’t meant to be and every time they’re not used is a plus rather than a minus, no matter what simpleton logic you bring forth here.

And look at how Hakusho turned out. Another half-assed release. At least with GT, they took it to an extreme, dumb or not. They saw what was working for them and pushed forward without compromise. That's how you do.

Just because they went on ahead with being objectively ridiculous doesn’t make it any less ridiculous nor does it deserve any kind of respect at all.

Spoiler:

It's commercially successful, yes, but in terms of faithfulness, internal consistency, integrity? Half-assed. The audiences deserve better than the bare minimum of respect.

Hey, you’re the one who said “It’s a business”, so only the bolded matters, any lofty ambition beyond that is pretence so everything else goes out the window. What’s it gonna be, or do you not have a leg to stand on?
And when last I looked, “No respect” isn’t somehow “better” than the bare minimum of respect.

And as you said, it's "strangely" well regarded in spite of the creative liberties. Meaning there's nothing straightforward or normal going on here at all. Funimation went half-assed and got lucky with YYH but the end result is still the end result. Even more deception and another divided fanbase. Where's the authenticity?

“Authenticity” as you define it here would lead to an even more divided fanbase so you’re shooting yourself in the foot there. Just say you’ve got no real point and move on.

Spoiler:

I meant *small* steps specifically. I was arguing for more extreme steps. And I know businesses might do it sometimes, but I would imagine that if they took the "small steps" approach *all* the time then they would be eaten alive.
Honestly though if you've gone so far in one direction, why not just keep going and hit that extreme, so that way you not only reach the most serious, devoted, die-hard fans from either side, but you also end up staying true to your vision and see all the hard work and effort fulfilled. As opposed to stopping short of a complete and authentic product and turning around to put out some middle-of-the-road shit that's either dishonest, unsatisfying, or commercially successful but critically mixed.

If that means a better company takes its place, then so be it, but that isn’t even likely to begin with m8.
And again, the very nature of what it is they were doing is dishonest by default, you can’t be using that as some kind of argument. They weren’t going to reach the fans of the true versions either. If they didn’t head towards making proper dubs with those series then when would you expect them to do it? When was enough going to be enough? Forget it, don’t bother answering that.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Why stop with putting Faulconer music to OG DB? Put it on Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece (Because having a replacement soundtrack worked SO WELL!) and heck! Lets put it on Fruits Basket! Faulconer is the sountrack to our lives. That gay Lets Stay Together Itsumo shit cannot compare to FAULCONER.

[Fionordequester]

...I like Team Faulconer's music. It should have sucked, considering the reason for its existence, and the relative inexperience of its musicians... But instead, it's one of the best OSTs I've ever heard. I too would've liked a Team Faulconer score for Dragon Ball.

FUNimation may not've respected the show, but the musicians they hired sure did.

[GhostEmperorX]

...I like Team Faulconer's music. It should have sucked, considering the reason for its existence, and the relative inexperience of its musicians... But instead, it's one of the best OSTs I've ever heard. I too would've liked a Team Faulconer score for Dragon Ball.

FUNimation may not've respected the show, but the musicians they hired sure did.

There were less techno elements in one than the other so it just wouldn’t have worked no matter which way you look at it.

[Aim]

FUNimation may not've respected the show, but the musicians they hired sure did.

They really didn’t. The show lost its “Kung fu” style music and feel with the addition of this sci-fi style instead. The music was good but in no way does it belong in Dragon Ball.

Funimation at this point should just restart the entire series and rename it journey to the west and change everything, add mondo cool jokes and other references. They’ve scorched the show so much it’s difficult to have a conversation with anyone who is a hardcore dub fan.

[Fionordequester]

They really didn’t.

No, actually, they did—Scott Morgan, for example, hated that they had to score wall-to-wall, and tried his best to use ambient music where he felt like there should have been silence.

You can knock their style & methods, but you can't knock their sincerity or reverence.

[MasenkoHA]

They really didn’t.

No, actually, they did—Scott Morgan, for example, hated that they had to score wall-to-wall, and tried his best to use ambient music where he felt like there should have been silence.

You can knock their style & methods, but you can't knock their sincerity or reverence.

Even setting aside the wall to wall aspect the score just does not fit the show at all.