Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

[Jackalope89]

Buu Arc had Great Saiyaman. Buu Arc wins.

Counterpoint, the Buu arc had the Great Saiyaman, the Buu arc loses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but, you're wrong.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

GT is 64 episodes long and the Majin Buu arc is 91 episodes long, GT wins for being a shorter torture.

[ABED]

Buu Arc had Great Saiyaman. Buu Arc wins.

Counterpoint, the Buu arc had the Great Saiyaman, the Buu arc loses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but, you're wrong.

You know those SNL sketches that would be good if they were kept to two minutes but keep going and going to the point of sapping all the comedy out of an amusing premise? The Great Saiyaman is like that but goes on way longer than a single sketch.

[sunsetshimmer]

Counterpoint, the Buu arc had the Great Saiyaman, the Buu arc loses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but, you're wrong.

You know those SNL sketches that would be good if they were kept to two minutes but keep going and going to the point of sapping all the comedy out of an amusing premise? The Great Saiyaman is like that but goes on way longer than a single sketch.

Tbh Great Saiyaman episodes, Gohan going to school, teaching Videl, training for tournament etc. is my favourite part of Buu saga, no, entire DBZ actually.

[TheGreatness25]

I never got the hate for the Boo arc. It drags, but that's the natural progression of the series, where each arc just got longer and longer with twists and turns all over the place. I used to love the Cell arc the best, but looking back at it, it was way too contrived. I liked a lot of the Boo arc because there were a lot of new things: teen Gohan, Goten, Trunks, an expanding deity mythology, and finally, the Earth came right up to the edge of extinction. Yes, a lot to keep up with in terms of Boo's forms and I'm not the biggest supporter of fusion characters, but I guess it felt more "epic."

GT was always a much better idea on paper than on TV, I think. I always said that if I were to summarize GT to someone, it generally sounds cool and fun. However, the execution was very rushed, sloppy, and not well done. Whether it was Toei's fault or not, the proof is in the pudding and the pudding was pretty bad. I love that GT continued the story into new territory instead of using nostalgia as a crutch. Everyone had new outfits, more mature personalities, and generally life went on instead of being frozen in time like Super. I also loved that GT felt more urban; they fought in cities instead of empty fields, which was really fun... again, in theory.

Stacking them up, I definitely enjoyed the Boo arc more. Yes, it's a marathon, but it wasn't all-the-way boring like GT was. If GT was better paced and could actually flesh out the characters/fights/etc., I think GT would generally have a much better legacy than it does. I think kicking off the series by turning Goku into a kid and taking them into space for one-off mini adventures was the kiss of death for the series. It never really recovered from there.

[MasenkoHA]

GT was always a much better idea on paper than on TV, I think. I always said that if I were to summarize GT to someone, it generally sounds cool and fun. However, the execution was very rushed, sloppy, and not well done. Whether it was Toei's fault or not, the proof is in the pudding and the pudding was pretty bad. I love that GT continued the story into new territory instead of using nostalgia as a crutch. Everyone had new outfits, more mature personalities, and generally life went on instead of being frozen in time like Super. I also loved that GT felt more urban; they fought in cities instead of empty fields, which was really fun... again, in theory.

Conceptually really good, but horrible in execution has always been the best way to describe GT.

Goku being heavily nerfed by being turned into a child would be a good idea but he’s just a child to uh cash in on early Dragon Ball nostalgia or something and doesn’t lose any power and might has well of been turned back into an adult after the first arc.

The concept of the black star balls is kind of cool (although it raises a lot of questions) but it’s just an excuse to rehash the most boring part of the original manga (the first arc) but in spaaaaaaaaaace

Going back to the Saiyan vs Tsufuru that Kaio mentioned way back in the beginning of Z and having that be the backstory for the first big bad is neat…if Baby wasn’t fucking lame and “everyone gets infected with the evil” is just Garlic Jr all over again


Having Super Saiyan 4 FINALLY tie the Oozaru transformation with the Super Saiyan transformation is a great idea but Super Saiyan 4 has a “trying too hard” look to it.

Having the over reliance on dragon balls have consequences is great but the 7 evil Shenlongs are all lame and other than Goku going away forever there is no real consequences other than “Here’s some final batch of baddies to fight”

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Having Goku regressed to being a child again (through Pilaf's purely unintended complaining) i think was done primarily and quite obviously for milking the fan's nostalgia for all it was worth, especially given that the show premiered the month of the anime's tenth anniversary and Path to Power was another adaptation of early DB again done as an anniversary celebration. That plot point overstayed it's welcome very quickly, as there was no reason after his, Pan's and Trunks' trek through space in the initial arc that he necessarily had to remain a kid as his base self. Him attaining Super Saiyan 4 in the Baby arc made that even more pointless since it returns him to being full grown adult again anyway so staying as is in regular form through the course of the series until the last episode kind of lost that after a point, so yeah i though it was an interesting idea at first but it seems redundant since Goku could've simply wished on the Dragon Balls to be returned to an adult again at any time.

[Kodoshin]

GT was always a much better idea on paper than on TV, I think. I always said that if I were to summarize GT to someone, it generally sounds cool and fun. However, the execution was very rushed, sloppy, and not well done. Whether it was Toei's fault or not, the proof is in the pudding and the pudding was pretty bad. I love that GT continued the story into new territory instead of using nostalgia as a crutch. Everyone had new outfits, more mature personalities, and generally life went on instead of being frozen in time like Super. I also loved that GT felt more urban; they fought in cities instead of empty fields, which was really fun... again, in theory.

Conceptually really good, but horrible in execution has always been the best way to describe GT.

Goku being heavily nerfed by being turned into a child would be a good idea but he’s just a child to uh cash in on early Dragon Ball nostalgia or something and doesn’t lose any power and might has well of been turned back into an adult after the first arc.

The concept of the black star balls is kind of cool (although it raises a lot of questions) but it’s just an excuse to rehash the most boring part of the original manga (the first arc) but in spaaaaaaaaaace

Going back to the Saiyan vs Tsufuru that Kaio mentioned way back in the beginning of Z and having that be the backstory for the first big bad is neat…if Baby wasn’t fucking lame and “everyone gets infected with the evil” is just Garlic Jr all over again


Having Super Saiyan 4 FINALLY tie the Oozaru transformation with the Super Saiyan transformation is a great idea but Super Saiyan 4 has a “trying too hard” look to it.

Having the over reliance on dragon balls have consequences is great but the 7 evil Shenlongs are all lame and other than Goku going away forever there is no real consequences other than “Here’s some final batch of baddies to fight”

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls - for a lot of reasons, but one of the key ones is doing it this late. The dragon balls themselves, as a plot device, have been actively harming the series for a long time by this point (Should have been done with them when DKP killed the dragon - that would change the series drastically too I know.). It didn't really matter that much given the scope of the series and that it is ultimately a property focused on youngsters, so I understand why they didn't bother to really address it since it allowed them to keep bringing back characters and pumping out merchandise. My take there is probably a bit too cynical but I think it worked out that way regardless of any intention on their part.

I just feel that by the time GT even begins the dragon balls are just an incredibly uninteresting thing to center a story around at this point, and then to continually double down and make them even more a focus was just digging a deeper hole. Inevitably though it happened and they did it, but I agree how in the hell did anyone get the green light for those evil dragons? Some of the worst character designs in the whole series. Maybe the worst. I'd have to think about it a bit, certainly the worst as a collective group anyway. The fights were atrocious as well. They really fumbled the ball here.

[ABED]

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls.

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

[PurestEvil]

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls - for a lot of reasons, but one of the key ones is doing it this late.

Better later than never

[MasenkoHA]

Again, the problem isn’t doing this kind of story. And really making the last arc about the titular dragon balls makes sense. It’s all in the execution. The big consequence is we get some lame Digimon tier villains to close out the franchise.

[WittyUsername]

Goku being regressed into a child does at least have a justification for it beyond nostalgia. Aside from being the thing that sets off the initial conflict, getting turned into a child takes away his ability to teleport. If he were able to just teleport wherever he wanted, it would make hunting the Dragon Balls far too easy. Of course, the show doesn’t actually bother to explain why turning into a child takes away Goku’s ability to teleport, so that’s a bit lazy.

[MasenkoHA]

Counterpoint, the Buu arc had the Great Saiyaman, the Buu arc loses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but, you're wrong.

You know those SNL sketches that would be good if they were kept to two minutes but keep going and going to the point of sapping all the comedy out of an amusing premise? The Great Saiyaman is like that but goes on way longer than a single sketch.

Fortunately the Great Saiyaman stuff is mercifully short. It’s really only like 6 episodes?

Granted the baby dinosaur episode is one of the most frustratingly stupid episodes ever.

[ABED]

I like the 4 Star Dragon.

Ultimately GT is the epitome of good ideas bad execution. And I say this as someone who generally enjoys it more than many here do. I don't care that much of it rehashes things. In many ways that feels appropriate for the final chapter of a long running story. My single biggest issue is the boring fights.

Fortunately the Great Saiyaman stuff is mercifully short. It’s really only like 6 episodes?

Granted the baby dinosaur episode is one of the most frustratingly stupid episodes ever.

I think it's a little longer but regardless, 6 episodes is still too long for what felt like maybe a short TV special worth of actual material.

[MasenkoHA]

Goku being regressed into a child does at least have a justification for it beyond nostalgia. Aside from being the thing that sets off the initial conflict, getting turned into a child takes away his ability to teleport. If he were able to just teleport wherever he wanted, it would make hunting the Dragon Balls far too easy. Of course, the show doesn’t actually bother to explain why turning into a child takes away Goku’s ability to teleport, so that’s a bit lazy.

He can still turn into a Super Saiyan and use the Dragon Fist technique (a technique he learned well after Shunkan Ido) him forgetting teleportation seemed more plot contrivance than anything.

[ABED]

Goku being regressed into a child does at least have a justification for it beyond nostalgia. Aside from being the thing that sets off the initial conflict, getting turned into a child takes away his ability to teleport. If he were able to just teleport wherever he wanted, it would make hunting the Dragon Balls far too easy. Of course, the show doesn’t actually bother to explain why turning into a child takes away Goku’s ability to teleport, so that’s a bit lazy.

He can still turn into a Super Saiyan and use the Dragon Fist technique (a technique he learned well after Shunkan Ido) him forgetting teleportation seemed more plot contrivance than anything.

Super Saiyan doesn't appear to consume as much energy.

[Kodoshin]

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls.

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

I swear I replied to this already but I somehow lost the post. I'll try dredge up a facsimile of what I originally wrote:

One thing I dislike about the whole consequences thing, in Dragon Ball specifically, we see consequences to the Dragon Balls already. Evil people use them or try to use them on the regular: innocents are slaughtered in their pursuit. These are the consequences of their mere existence. The good guys have most of the time ultimately turned things back to normal with them, but we still see horrible stuff happen in pursuit of the Dragon Balls all the time. They are responsible for a lot of unrest in the world.

On a different level I feel like they should have abandoned the dragon balls as a plot point when DKP killed the dragon. It would have done the series a lot of good to move on at that point I think. Obviously the progression of the story would have changed greatly, and probably not the way I would have liked it to unfold, but I think it ultimately would have ended up a stronger story for it.

On one final more personal level - I think a lot of people have a trope that just triggers them from their own sheer overexposure to it. For me it's this one. I don't know if you're a gamer of any sort, but this holds a place alongside a videogame sending me to a series of elemental temples atop the things that cause me to lose interest in a story immediately.

On the Kid Goku thing-- I don't care about any of that really. My biggest problem with his GT appearance is that I think the character design is really ugly

[Yuji]

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls.

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

I swear I replied to this already but I somehow lost the post. I'll try dredge up a facsimile of what I originally wrote:

One thing I dislike about the whole consequences thing, in Dragon Ball specifically, we see consequences to the Dragon Balls already. Evil people use them or try to use them on the regular: innocents are slaughtered in their pursuit. These are the consequences of their mere existence. The good guys have most of the time ultimately turned things back to normal with them, but we still see horrible stuff happen in pursuit of the Dragon Balls all the time. They are responsible for a lot of unrest in the world.

On a different level I feel like they should have abandoned the dragon balls as a plot point when DKP killed the dragon. It would have done the series a lot of good to move on at that point I think. Obviously the progression of the story would have changed greatly, and probably not the way I would have liked it to unfold, but I think it ultimately would have ended up a stronger story for it.

On one final more personal level - I think a lot of people have a trope that just triggers them from their own sheer overexposure to it. For me it's this one. I don't know if you're a gamer of any sort, but this holds a place alongside a videogame sending me to a series of elemental temples atop the things that cause me to lose interest in a story immediately.

On the Kid Goku thing-- I don't care about any of that really. My biggest problem with his GT appearance is that I think the character design is really ugly

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use, or do in fact use, the balls themselves. But at the same time, that's a good way to "abandon" the dragon balls as a plot point, like you wish.

[Kodoshin]

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

I swear I replied to this already but I somehow lost the post. I'll try dredge up a facsimile of what I originally wrote:

One thing I dislike about the whole consequences thing, in Dragon Ball specifically, we see consequences to the Dragon Balls already. Evil people use them or try to use them on the regular: innocents are slaughtered in their pursuit. These are the consequences of their mere existence. The good guys have most of the time ultimately turned things back to normal with them, but we still see horrible stuff happen in pursuit of the Dragon Balls all the time. They are responsible for a lot of unrest in the world.

On a different level I feel like they should have abandoned the dragon balls as a plot point when DKP killed the dragon. It would have done the series a lot of good to move on at that point I think. Obviously the progression of the story would have changed greatly, and probably not the way I would have liked it to unfold, but I think it ultimately would have ended up a stronger story for it.

On one final more personal level - I think a lot of people have a trope that just triggers them from their own sheer overexposure to it. For me it's this one. I don't know if you're a gamer of any sort, but this holds a place alongside a videogame sending me to a series of elemental temples atop the things that cause me to lose interest in a story immediately.

On the Kid Goku thing-- I don't care about any of that really. My biggest problem with his GT appearance is that I think the character design is really ugly

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use, or do in fact use, the balls themselves. But at the same time, that's a good way to "abandon" the dragon balls as a plot point, like you wish.

If the story was continuing then, sure I guess. Way too late, but sure. At the same time going by the Goku Jr. special these things are back in circulation during Pan's lifetime so what did it actually matter?

[ABED]

I absolutely hate the entire idea of consequences to the dragon balls.

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

I swear I replied to this already but I somehow lost the post. I'll try dredge up a facsimile of what I originally wrote:

One thing I dislike about the whole consequences thing, in Dragon Ball specifically, we see consequences to the Dragon Balls already. Evil people use them or try to use them on the regular: innocents are slaughtered in their pursuit. These are the consequences of their mere existence. The good guys have most of the time ultimately turned things back to normal with them, but we still see horrible stuff happen in pursuit of the Dragon Balls all the time. They are responsible for a lot of unrest in the world.

On a different level I feel like they should have abandoned the dragon balls as a plot point when DKP killed the dragon. It would have done the series a lot of good to move on at that point I think. Obviously the progression of the story would have changed greatly, and probably not the way I would have liked it to unfold, but I think it ultimately would have ended up a stronger story for it.

On one final more personal level - I think a lot of people have a trope that just triggers them from their own sheer overexposure to it. For me it's this one. I don't know if you're a gamer of any sort, but this holds a place alongside a videogame sending me to a series of elemental temples atop the things that cause me to lose interest in a story immediately.

On the Kid Goku thing-- I don't care about any of that really. My biggest problem with his GT appearance is that I think the character design is really ugly

But then good people can just unwish it. Hardly consequences. It's TOO easy. How many times in DB did the bad guys get their wish? Once - Piccolo. Not only was he defeated quickly thereafter, nothing fundamentally changed by him achieving his wish other than we got a better fight when Goku got stronger. Piccolo still would've done what he did had he not gotten his youth back.

THIS basic fact of life that there is always a cost bothers you? How is it overdone?

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use,

That's the whole point, it's not fair, it just is. There are no free lunches. Everything comes at a cost. Putting that sort of limitation on the DBs adds an element of tension that magical McGuffins should have. The fact that it's not fair is in fact a positive.