Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

[TheGreatness25]

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use, or do in fact use, the balls themselves. But at the same time, that's a good way to "abandon" the dragon balls as a plot point, like you wish.

It isn't about what's fair or not -- the Dragon Balls don't care about that. The Dragon Balls were a miracle and have been used time and time and time again. Everything needs to have a consequence, regardless of what they were used for. In the real world, when people die protecting others, they stay dead.

[Yuji]

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use, or do in fact use, the balls themselves. But at the same time, that's a good way to "abandon" the dragon balls as a plot point, like you wish.

It isn't about what's fair or not -- the Dragon Balls don't care about that. The Dragon Balls were a miracle and have been used time and time and time again. Everything needs to have a consequence, regardless of what they were used for. In the real world, when people die protecting others, they stay dead.

I mean it's not fair from an out of universe perspective. It's mean spirited to hold the heroes accountable for the consequences of others' actions. Dragon Ball isn't a ruthless, nihilistic universe like that.

[90sDBZ]

I happen to love the Buu Saga even more than the Cell Saga, so for me it beats GT.

It's just a really fun ride with tons of wacky stuff happening and unpredictable plot twists. SS3 and Fusion are both awesome, and the Majin Vegeta storyline is great. I've really come to appreciate Fat Buu and his antics, although Super Buu is a much more menacing and intimidating villain. Gotenks is really funny too, and Vegito is a straight up badass. Mystic Gohan was also awesome for the short time he was around. The final showdown with Kid Buu and the Spirit Bomb sequence with everyone contributing never gets old for me.

GT redeems itself with the Baby Saga and SS4. The Super 17 Saga is a rehash of Movie 12 and feels a bit haphazardly thrown together, but I like how it foreshadows the Shadow Dragons and leads straight into that arc. And the stuff with Krillin and 18 is great. The Shadow Dragon Saga in underrated and has a real sense of mystery and foreboding throughout. The sequence of the 7 Shenrons flying all over the earth is actually kind of creepy and unsettling.

For me both are solid, but the Buu Saga wins.

[Kodoshin]

Um, can I ask why? There being a cost to magic is a trope for good reason. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Unpopular opinion, people take WAY too much of an issue with Goku being put in his childhood body. Also while nostalgia might be part of the reason they turned him back, they've gone on record as saying the did it because he had grown too powerful by the end of DBZ and wanted to put limitations on him.

I swear I replied to this already but I somehow lost the post. I'll try dredge up a facsimile of what I originally wrote:

One thing I dislike about the whole consequences thing, in Dragon Ball specifically, we see consequences to the Dragon Balls already. Evil people use them or try to use them on the regular: innocents are slaughtered in their pursuit. These are the consequences of their mere existence. The good guys have most of the time ultimately turned things back to normal with them, but we still see horrible stuff happen in pursuit of the Dragon Balls all the time. They are responsible for a lot of unrest in the world.

On a different level I feel like they should have abandoned the dragon balls as a plot point when DKP killed the dragon. It would have done the series a lot of good to move on at that point I think. Obviously the progression of the story would have changed greatly, and probably not the way I would have liked it to unfold, but I think it ultimately would have ended up a stronger story for it.

On one final more personal level - I think a lot of people have a trope that just triggers them from their own sheer overexposure to it. For me it's this one. I don't know if you're a gamer of any sort, but this holds a place alongside a videogame sending me to a series of elemental temples atop the things that cause me to lose interest in a story immediately.

On the Kid Goku thing-- I don't care about any of that really. My biggest problem with his GT appearance is that I think the character design is really ugly

But then good people can just unwish it. Hardly consequences. It's TOO easy. How many times in DB did the bad guys get their wish? Once - Piccolo. Not only was he defeated quickly thereafter, nothing fundamentally changed by him achieving his wish other than we got a better fight when Goku got stronger. Piccolo still would've done what he did had he not gotten his youth back.

THIS basic fact of life that there is always a cost bothers you? How is it overdone?

In all honesty, I also don't think it's fair to hold the heroes accountable for "abusing" the dragon balls when most of the time they're resurrecting innocents from evil people who seek to use,

That's the whole point, it's not fair, it just is. There are no free lunches. Everything comes at a cost. Putting that sort of limitation on the DBs adds an element of tension that magical McGuffins should have. The fact that it's not fair is in fact a positive.

Good people unwishing bad things doesn't undo the trauma they have all endured (unless that's the wish). Dragon Ball doesn't choose to explore it, but realistically it's still there. It's understandable though, being the genre it is, being of the time it was from. Other series in the same genre do look at trauma and the effects on others-- even if not in a particularly tasteful way. Living in a world with Dragon Balls certainly seems to come with a cost that effects everyone-- even the vast majority who are ignorant of their existence.

Further, basic fact of life? There are plenty of things that don't cost in life or in nature, things that are purely beneficial. What really is the cost? The Dragon Balls and their power gives rise to powerful enemies that endanger everyone - resulting in battle maniacs who like nothing more than fighting strong guys getting to fight more strong guys? So the ultimate cost is that we get to see the same scenario play out that we always see play out? Even after all of this the balls are back in circulation during Pan's lifetime so I guess this wasn't really that big a deal. We can have a new generation start chasing after the Dragon Balls to generate a new batch of stupid looking dragons to fight down the road.

[ABED]

Well considering this isn't one of those type of shows that's a moot point, lets keep it to DB. Trauma isn't something the show touches upon so that's a non-factor..

There is a cost to nearly everything, even if only opportunity cost. What are you think has no cost and how does that apply to the DB's?

resulting in battle maniacs who like nothing more than fighting strong guys getting to fight more strong guys?

Which is all the more reason to keep this aspect of the DB's. Besides, Goku is gone permanently.

What's with the notion of fairness concerning the DB's having a cost?

[Kodoshin]

Well considering this isn't one of those type of shows that's a moot point, lets keep it to DB. Trauma isn't something the show touches upon so that's a non-factor..

There is a cost to nearly everything, even if only opportunity cost. What are you think has no cost and how does that apply to the DB's?

resulting in battle maniacs who like nothing more than fighting strong guys getting to fight more strong guys?

Which is all the more reason to keep this aspect of the DB's. Besides, Goku is gone permanently.

What's with the notion of fairness concerning the DB's having a cost?

Fairness? I'm not concerned about fairness at all. I'm fatigued by this trope. I went into that in an earlier post, so I'll pump the brakes on that. The person concerned about fairness was a different poster. You're the one who said that everything has a cost and it's a basic fact of life, but we both know that's not true. I see you've amended your statement here, so good on you. Once again I did point out that the dragon balls merely existing is a cost to the whole of the world by the chain of events they inevitably cause. Adding an additional cost on top of that is redundant, but also creates another logical issue with the Goku Jr. special: why would Goku be so happy about Goku Jr. finding a dragon ball?

Keeping the dragon balls around after establishing yet another cost to them? That's one thing, but this cost particularly? The dragons reawakening? It's beyond ridiculous. We see the balls are back in circulation in Pan's lifetime during the Goku Jr. special. Goku's ghost or whatever that was at the end of the special, knows that using them can one day give rise to evil dragons, so why wouldn't he have Goku Jr. destroy the one he finds on the spot? As far as we know nobody in the league of Goku or Vegeta even exists to oppose them if the worst happens. Whatever use they would have is outweighed by the potential of the evil dragons reawakening. Kami, whoever that is at this point, shouldn't let them exist anymore either.

Maybe Goku's sacrifice at the end of GT prevents the aforementioned scenarios from unfolding? Whatever it is, that ending is rather nebulous and open to infinite speculation.

[ABED]

Well considering this isn't one of those type of shows that's a moot point, lets keep it to DB. Trauma isn't something the show touches upon so that's a non-factor..

There is a cost to nearly everything, even if only opportunity cost. What are you think has no cost and how does that apply to the DB's?

resulting in battle maniacs who like nothing more than fighting strong guys getting to fight more strong guys?

Which is all the more reason to keep this aspect of the DB's. Besides, Goku is gone permanently.

What's with the notion of fairness concerning the DB's having a cost?

Fairness? I'm not concerned about fairness at all. I'm fatigued by this trope. I went into that in an earlier post, so I'll pump the brakes on that. The person concerned about fairness was a different poster. You're the one who said that everything has a cost and it's a basic fact of life, but we both know that's not true. I see you've amended your statement here, so good on you. Once again I did point out that the dragon balls merely existing is a cost to the whole of the world by the chain of events they inevitably cause. Adding an additional cost on top of that is redundant, but also creates another logical issue with the Goku Jr. special: why would Goku be so happy about Goku Jr. finding a dragon ball?

Keeping the dragon balls around after establishing yet another cost to them? That's one thing, but this cost particularly? The dragons reawakening? It's beyond ridiculous. We see the balls are back in circulation in Pan's lifetime during the Goku Jr. special. Goku's ghost or whatever that was at the end of the special, knows that using them can one day give rise to evil dragons, so why wouldn't he have Goku Jr. destroy the one he finds on the spot? As far as we know nobody in the league of Goku or Vegeta even exists to oppose them if the worst happens. Whatever use they would have is outweighed by the potential of the evil dragons reawakening. Kami, whoever that is at this point, shouldn't let them exist anymore either.

Maybe Goku's sacrifice at the end of GT prevents the aforementioned scenarios from unfolding? Whatever it is, that ending is rather nebulous and open to infinite speculation.

What trope exactly? Magic having consequences and tradeoffs?

[ABED]

I'd also like to state for the record, the ending is very clear. Goku's gone, but he got to come back just long enough to check how his family was doing. That's all the audience needs to know. How do I know nothing else important happened? Because nothing else important happened. He's gone. Hence why the the show ends with "The End".

[Super Murjin]

GT Majin Buu saga