How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by OmegaRockman » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:30 pm

Wouldn't there be six endings technically? You get two more for Kai. And I don't mean counting Kai's version of Goku flying off with Oob, combining that with Z's version makes sense. But the original Kai run had two endings: the TV broadcast ending (97, which ends with the Dragon Team seeing Trunks off) and he home release ending (98, AKA the bonus episode where Trunks saves his future).

While I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with the TV vs. home release ending thing, I do think we should count Kai 98 as its own ending because at the time that was, in fact, the end of Kai. I think one person on the Kai subforum even argued that Kai 98 serves as a better thematic ending for Kai than Boo when Kai is taken in isolation. I slightly disagree with that take since I think that Kai should still come after DB, but it's still an interesting perspective. So yeah, five endings.

With that said, here's some brief thoughts on each ending (no ranking):

DB - I'd like this much more as a conclusion if it ended at the tournament and not the wedding dress filler. The arc itself isn't irredeemably bad or anything, and I actually like some of the Goku/Chichi couple moments, but it doesn't really work as a conclusion to the show like the end of the tournament does. But that's not really a problem, either, because it's not supposed to be a conclusion but a bridge to the Z stuff. I'd just recommend stopping at Episode 148 if you intend on watching DB as its own show in isolation.

DBZ/Kai TFC - It's the manga ending put on screen. I used to hate this ending, but it's grown on me over the years.

GT - An utterly fantastic ending for the original anime run, leaving a lot to interpretation and pulling on the heartstrings in all the right ways. I just wish that GT itself were a little better so the ending would feel a little more earned. That isn't to say that GT is awful or even all that bad (it isn't), but it's telling when "The best part of GT is the ending" could just as likely be an unironic statement on one's feelings on the show as it could be a punchline to a joke made at the show's expense. I guess you could say GT has a pretty great destination following an uneven journey; a good ending can't completely make up for a show that's just okay at the end of the day.

Kai 98 - While I would've rather had the universe where Toei adapted the Boo arc in Kai from the start so TFC didn't end up with all its weird baggage, I think Cell works as the next best place to end things. It works as a nice, if bittersweet, end to the story thus far, showing Goku taking responsibility for his mistakes and Gohan coming into his own as a character. While I'm glad that Kai finally got to finish, even with TFC's issues, this would have been an okay way to leave things if Kai never got picked up again. The biggest regret would've been no good Boo arc dub.

Super - I don't think Episode 131 works that well as a series finale, but I don't think it tries to. Instead, it works as a "we're taking a break, but we'll be back soon" kind of thing. In that sense, it doesn't bother me because it's clear that they intend the story to continue. I just hope that the anime continuation happens before we lose more cast members, though.
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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:40 pm

OmegaRockman wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:30 pm Wouldn't there be six endings technically? You get two more for Kai..
I don’t count reruns.

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:53 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:54 am The 23rd TB works as an ending and it's my favorite. There's closure and everyone is fine and together. It's joyous and Goku doesn't leave everyone. It's my favorite, but it's not where I want the story to end.
Goku does leave everyone with Chichi. As far as any of them knew, it was the end. It's a joyous ending, but somewhat bittersweet.

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:57 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:53 pm
ABED wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:54 am The 23rd TB works as an ending and it's my favorite. There's closure and everyone is fine and together. It's joyous and Goku doesn't leave everyone. It's my favorite, but it's not where I want the story to end.
Goku does leave everyone with Chichi. As far as any of them knew, it was the end. It's a joyous ending, but somewhat bittersweet.
They just left to get married. Had the Saiyan arc not established they hadn’t seen each other in 5 years there would be no reason to think Goku wasn’t going to see them like right after his wedding.

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:58 pm

I wouldn't call that bittersweet since the tournament was always a day long event and he was leaving to start a new life with his bride. There was nothing bitter about Goku flying off into the sunset, whereas leaving his friends and family for an unspecified amount of time and not even telling them beforehand is a bitter pill to swallow.

OmegaRockman basically stated my thoughts on GT's ending.
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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:16 pm

Goku was leaving to start a new life with Chichi, I doubt anyone ever intended to see him again. It's joyous for Goku, but possibly a little bittersweet for the other characters. And bittersweet for the audience.

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:42 pm

I never saw it that way. They had gathered for the day and it's not like he and his friends are constantly around each other at that point. They meet up on special occassions. When the end of Z rolls around, Goku is very much around his family everyday for years. They're very different situations.
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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:50 pm

It's pretty ironic that GT is so irredeemably bad in many contexts but it's also the only DB series that has a truly emotionally resonant ending. lol
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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:39 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:16 pm Goku was leaving to start a new life with Chichi, I doubt anyone ever intended to see him again. It's joyous for Goku, but possibly a little bittersweet for the other characters. And bittersweet for the audience.
Why would they not intend to see him ever again? I know that Goku and his friends tend to see each other pretty irregularly, but they still have reunions from time to time. Goku sees them again right at the beginning of the Saiyan arc.

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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Goku tells Chi-chi that he'll visit 'sometimes' before leaving with Uub, so I prefer to think that he does so frequently (like every week or two at least). That makes the ending go down much easier with me than if it's basically full-blown abandonment and he only visits on rare occasions.

So, from best to worst.

Dragon Ball GT: One of the incredibly few scenes in the series that I can watch over and over again, almost indefinitely. I've always loved scenes in anime that feature insert songs (and think it's a real shame that they were prolific throughout Dragon Ball but dried up to almost nothing in Z), and the trip down memory lane is incredibly moving since it's been such a long road, more than 500 episodes and close to forty years. The best of the endings and it's nowhere even remotely close.

Dragon Ball: As disappointing and boring as I found the Wedding Arc to be (I almost unfailingly love the anime-original "filler" arcs, and was excited to see Chi-chi in a prominent role, but I got minimal enjoyment out of it), I do think that the closing scene with Goku and Chi-chi's marriage and Baba teasing DBZ was very nice.

Dragon Ball Z: I've never been a huge fan of the 28th Budokai mini-arc, honestly. Seeing everyone in very aged incarnations is interesting - almost the whole gang was seriously beaten by the ugly stick during the ten years after Buu's defeat - but otherwise there's very little that I like about the final few chapters/episodes of the series. Goku leaving his family at the end bothered me a lot when I was 16 and saw the end to Z for the first time via the Funi dub. I was better able to understand what the series was going for as time went along, which was solidified more by Kunzait's Wuxia thread many years later (loyalty to the path of the martial artist generally placed higher than social relations), but at the end of the day I'm not a Youxia and so I still have to feel badly for Chi-chi - especially since the anime plays up her feelings of abandonment with her crumpling down in a chair (which kind of feels like the anime going "You don't have to adopt the Youxia way of thinking, it's okay to just use more normal human morality on this"), something which I think was absent from the manga.

It is pretty great, though, seeing Goku become someone's mentor after spending most of the entire series, at least up through Yardrat, hopping from new teacher to new teacher. Given that he's physically only in his 30s by the end of the manga and the Saiyan rapid aging doesn't kick in until around 80, he has a very long time to serve as mentor for various people.

I haven't seen Super yet. Maybe one day.
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Re: How would you rank the 4 anime finales?

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:44 pm

Goku's willingness to abandon his friends and family at the drop of a hat is part of what makes the character endearing in my view, so him leaving with Oob at the end never bothered me.

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:39 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:16 pm Goku was leaving to start a new life with Chichi, I doubt anyone ever intended to see him again. It's joyous for Goku, but possibly a little bittersweet for the other characters. And bittersweet for the audience.
Why would they not intend to see him ever again? I know that Goku and his friends tend to see each other pretty irregularly, but they still have reunions from time to time. Goku sees them again right at the beginning of the Saiyan arc.
That was their first ever reunion in the Saiyan arc. It's not something they did up until that point.

That goodbye felt final to me, with Goku now grown and with a new wife, the world being saved from its greatest evil, and Goku finally the tournament champion. They reflected upon the series' past before they said goodbye. And it's not like they all live nearby one another. Sure, maybe someday in the future they might've met up again, like with the reunion, but it seemed like they were making it clear that as far as anyone knew, this was it, no more adventures.

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