does dragonball have a definitive canon

[granddragoonknight]

does dragonball have a definitive canon

[SupremeKai25]

Yes. The original Dragon Ball manga, the Jaco manga, and Dragon Ball Super (movies included) is the definitive canon of Toriyama's story. Both the DBS anime and manga are canon and simply tell different continuities of the same canonical story, but they are both supervised by Toriyama.

The rest is not part of Toriyama's canonical story and thus is non-canon.

[granddragoonknight]

eh not quite if he supervised over gt and the films in the very same matter you cant just overwrite one thing to fit another

[SupremeKai25]

eh not quite if he supervised over gt and the films in the very same matter you cant just overwrite one thing to fit another

He stated that both the movies and GT are not part of his story.

I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.

Being a lazy bum by nature, I was absurdly happy when I managed to safely finish up Dragon Ball’s serialization, and finally be released from Deadline Hell. The TV anime people wanted to continue for just a little bit more, but I [just couldn’t do] any more than that… And so, I left the Dragon Ball anime completely up to the anime staff, story and all. That was Dragon Ball GT.... Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball, and it’ll make me happy for us to watch and enjoy it together.

https://dragonballuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

So the movies are stories set in a different dimension from the canonical story of the original manga, and as far as GT is concerned he left it entirely in the hands of the anime studio, it's not his story at all. He even calls it just a "side story".

So you can completely enjoy these products, just remember that for example in the Granolah arc (canon story) no one will mention Janemba or Hirudegarn, because they are not canon and thus do not exist in the main canonical universe (Janemba might become canon like Broly if the upcoming movie is about him).

[pepd]

Dragon Ball (manga), Jaco:TGP (manga) and some version of DBS (An unknown version of it, but manga and movies are the official continuation to the DB manga, and the closer we have)

Aside from that, there are:

-Toriyama interviews

-Neko Majin happens in the same universe and features Gokuu and other DB characters, but has some impossible gags.
-Dr. Slump has a cameo in DB, but has even more contradictions.
-Kintoki has a cameo in Jaco:TGP

-Wonder Island, Tomato and Pola&Roid have cameos in Dr.Slump

-Jiya and Sachie-chan portray the Galactic Patrol (or a similar version)

-Cowa!, SandLand and Go!Go!Ackman have similar demons to Dabra, but there are no cameos, Go!Go!Ackman is from before DB, SandLand would require mayor explanations to fit, and Toriyama has said he sometimes just reuses designs.

-Cashman - Saving Soldier has a cameo in DBS manga

That is talking about the main series, of course; there are multiple continuities in the franchise.

[theherodjl]

There is no true canon when it comes to discussing the various mediums of DB; the manga has it's own canon, the anime has it's, the movies, the video games, etc. You have to pinpoint which canon you want to discuss and note the differences that each has with one another.

[Koitsukai]

I don't know what canon actually means, but there's definitely a main continuity which is DB manga and DBS(anime, manga and movies) and Jaco's manga.
The movies are more like what-ifs, GT is Toei's take on what happened after EoZ, and Heroes is a videogame. All happening on alternate dimensions.

[MasenkoHA]

eh not quite if he supervised over gt and the films in the very same matter you cant just overwrite one thing to fit another

He provided some character designs for GT and Movies. Nothing comparable to his involvement with Super

[granddragoonknight]

eh not quite if he supervised over gt and the films in the very same matter you cant just overwrite one thing to fit another

He provided some character designs for GT and Movies. Nothing comparable to his involvement with Super

he did more then that

[MasenkoHA]

eh not quite if he supervised over gt and the films in the very same matter you cant just overwrite one thing to fit another

He provided some character designs for GT and Movies. Nothing comparable to his involvement with Super

he did more then that

Oh yeah he came up with the title and logo. Such involvement.

[precita]

Originally there was just manga canon and anime canon.

Manga: Toriyama's manga from the beginning to end

Anime: Dragonball, DBZ (including all fillers), and you can or not count GT.

Movies: The 13 movies are basically all in their own canon

The videogames have always had what if stories since the beginning, so I don't know why people think recent stuff like Xenoverse or Android 21 or Heroes is something new when they've always done stuff like this.

[Grimlock]

does dragonball have a definitive canon

No. It has a "timeline" which is more focused (the one you you watch the episodes/read the manga), but it doesn't mean the events that take place outside of it aren't valid or that they are what-if events.

Most of the franchises (if not all) that have a canon established, it's because it was officially established it. Someone who had the rights to it stated what is canonical and what is not. Have you ever heard/seen/read someone (Akira Toriyama) or something (Shueisha) stating "this is cannon", "that is not cannon" in Dragon Ball? Probably not, but if you have, don't ever forget to ask for a legit source (I doubt they would provide a source to you, though. Since we all know that there isn't such thing in Dragon Ball as of now).

Dragon Ball is more like Marvel/DC. The "main timeline" would be like Earth 616 (Marvel) or New Earth (DC), but like I said, it doesn't mean like the movies and OVAs (that would take place in another dimension but still within these mentioned Earths) aren't legit events that happened somewhere out there. This is the best approach when it comes to Dragon Ball GT, movies and OVAs. Especially because these events, taking place in "another dimension", was established by Akira Toriyama himself and is a concept being officially explored in Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2.

Whenever you see people saying "there is a canon" and proceeding to state "what's canonical", they're merely transmitting their opinion on the matter, they are not fact. What they don't realize is that they are also being a hypocrites/contradictory in their statement. See in this very thread, people think that only what Toriyama does is what "counts", but certainly most of them think that Dragon Ball Super retellings are valid, not the movies. Even though we have no evidence of Toriyama's involvement with the retellings (but we do for his lack of involvement), and we know Toriyama was involved with the movies. So shouldn't they consider the movies instead of the retellings? And then there's Dragon Ball Online, which also has Toriyama's involvement and worked on it for five years. Yet, you don't see anyone (besides me) taking it into consideration.

Anyway, there is no definitive canon in Dragon Ball at this very moment. But who knows? Someday Toriyama/Shueisha might wake up one day feeling the need to shout to the world what's canonical and what's not, but until that happens, you can consider whatever you want, your personal "headcanon", as they say it.

[granddragoonknight]

He provided some character designs for GT and Movies. Nothing comparable to his involvement with Super

he did more then that

Oh yeah he came up with the title and logo. Such involvement.

wrong he was a creative consolation on what he wanted his characters to do in GT he wasn't involved story wise but gave the writing staff on gt his input on where goku vegeta and etc are to be in that story

[Polyphase Avatron]

No, it really doesn't.

[Skar]

If there is a definitive canon, it would be the original manga since it's the source material that every official continuity branches off from.

[LoganForkHands73]

While I'm firmly in the camp that it's best not to get anal about these matters, I think most people agree that the original manga story serialised in WSJ from 1984-1995 is the definitive "canonical" story that all other media branches out or diverges from in one way or another. As much as I'm inclined to consider Toriyama's later works alongside Toei and Toyotaro as "more legitimate" since they at least have a shred of the original creator's voice, I don't quite put them on the same level of the original manga. The revived franchise is, at the end of the day, just a belated extension of a work that was already completed and put on the shelf decades ago. That's not to dismiss any of it, though. Dragon Ball Super, GT, Heroes, they all have their own stories to tell and are as valid as anything, but it's harder to discern a clear continuity with all of them because they're a clouded mixture of many different creators' voices. Even with the Dragon Ball Super manga, we can only speculate how much Toriyama actually contributes to it, especially with the more recent arcs. With the OG manga, it's much easier to simplify, as there is a single author with a single voices whose work went from A-B, all nice n' straightforward like. You could even include Dr. Slump and others into a broader "Toriyama canon" if you're so inclined.

Canon is ultimately just a word for defining what's "legitimate" and what's not. Outside the contexts of organised religion and pre-Information Age literature, it's never been that important. Long before the Internet, Sherlock Holmes fans needed to compile which stories were actually written by Arthur Conan Doyle, as copyright laws were more lax and there was countless unlicensed proto-fanfiction out there confusing people, so they assembled a Holmes canon that was actually useful and necessary. Figuring out who wrote what is less of a problem these days, so fans instead try to fit their favourite sprawling mass media franchises into neat little continuities, usually to less success. I dislike it when companies try to dictate to people what is and isn't canon, because it just leads to needless division and limits creativity. For that reason I prefer how Dragon Ball doesn't bother itself with a rigidly defined canon. Namco are still free to use Super Saiyan 4, the Time Patrol and goddamn Dr. Wheelo in their games if they choose, there's no arbitrary "Toei Story Group"* preventing them. Stories are allowed to be retold in different ways and there's no one ordering you to accept one version over the other you might prefer. The idea that retellings and remasters invalidate the older versions is silly. If that were true, the OG anime, Kai, every video game retelling etc. would supersede the manga, but no one thinks that.

*Yeah, I know there's the Dragon Room, but that's more of a brain-trust for Super, AFAIK they don't interfere with anything else.

[granddragoonknight]

While I'm firmly in the camp that it's best not to get anal about these matters, I think most people agree that the original manga story serialised in WSJ from 1984-1995 is the definitive "canonical" story that all other media branches out or diverges from in one way or another. As much as I'm inclined to consider Toriyama's later works alongside Toei and Toyotaro as "more legitimate" since they at least have a shred of the original creator's voice, I don't quite put them on the same level of the original manga. The revived franchise is, at the end of the day, just a belated extension of a work that was already completed and put on the shelf decades ago. That's not to dismiss any of it, though. Dragon Ball Super, GT, Heroes, they all have their own stories to tell and are as valid as anything, but it's harder to discern a clear continuity with all of them because they're a clouded mixture of many different creators' voices. Even with the Dragon Ball Super manga, we can only speculate how much Toriyama actually contributes to it, especially with the more recent arcs. With the OG manga, it's much easier to simplify, as there is a single author with a single voices whose work went from A-B, all nice n' straightforward like. You could even include Dr. Slump and others into a broader "Toriyama canon" if you're so inclined.

Canon is ultimately just a word for defining what's "legitimate" and what's not. Outside the contexts of organised religion and pre-Information Age literature, it's never been that important. Long before the Internet, Sherlock Holmes fans needed to compile which stories were actually written by Arthur Conan Doyle, as copyright laws were more lax and there was countless unlicensed proto-fanfiction out there confusing people, so they assembled a Holmes canon that was actually useful and necessary. Figuring out who wrote what is less of a problem these days, so fans instead try to fit their favourite sprawling mass media franchises into neat little continuities, usually to less success. I dislike it when companies try to dictate to people what is and isn't canon, because it just leads to needless division and limits creativity. For that reason I prefer how Dragon Ball doesn't bother itself with a rigidly defined canon. Namco are still free to use Super Saiyan 4, the Time Patrol and goddamn Dr. Wheelo in their games if they choose, there's no arbitrary "Toei Story Group"* preventing them. Stories are allowed to be retold in different ways and there's no one ordering you to accept one version over the other you might prefer. The idea that retellings and remasters invalidate the older versions is silly. If that were true, the OG anime, Kai, every video game retelling etc. would supersede the manga, but no one thinks that.

*Yeah, I know there's the Dragon Room, but that's more of a brain-trust for Super, AFAIK they don't interfere with anything else.

ok true enough

[TobyS]

1.DB manga with kanzenban ending
2.Jaco manga.
3.The unseen super outline (I'd argue contextually given his close relationship with Toyo he considers Toyos version canon and doesn't think about Toeis version at all. But that's more subjective)
4. Interview tidbits.
5. Anything left from DBO that hasn't been contradicted by super.

Anyone pretending the above is not obviously true is bias because they happen to like a particular Toei product or several.

It doesn't benefit them to say anything else ISN'T explicitly canon it would either have no effect on sales or a negative one, there's no upside.

[VegettoEX]

Try as you might, you can’t actually be the concept of bias.

[Cipher]

I think the only hard consensus you’ll ever find is that the original series written and drawn by Toriyama is “canon.” But even then, some people will be picky about whether that includes later comments, revisions, etc.

Once you go beyond that, you have different related series by him that may or may not wholly fit, you have interview comments made off the cuff, you have sequels with multiple versions and different creators and varying levels of involvement from Toriyama himself, etc.

And even then, something like GT is specifically a follow-up to the original anime adaptation (making use of anime-only elements from Z) rather than the original manga.

But for the sake of not being too obtuse about things, generally people use the phrase to refer to any main-series works written or drafted by Toriyama: which would include the original manga, Neko Majin with like a billion question marks attached since it’s also a goofy self-parody, Jaco, the Toriyama-scripted movies, and Super as a general concept (without getting into the weeds about there being two different versions between the manga and anime). Some people will also take it to mean interview or guide-book tidbits; others won’t.

Or perhaps it’s easier to say that people will generally agree that when other fans say “canon,” it specifically does not include: anime-only additions from the original anime series, the original-run movies, GT, and game fiction and spin-off manga.

But no one’s ever codified this. That’s just explaining general fandom use of the phrase.