Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Currently strongest mortals:
1st - Granolah
2nd/3rd - Goku/Vegeta (order to be determined maybe Vegeta gets 1st if he wins)
4th -- Broly
5th - Freeza

Can't say I like Broly being surpassed this soon. It makes the character irrelevant, Goku just won't ever show up there if he has Vegeta to play with.

Plus all the power-scaling implications. Beerus doesn't do anything but is just getting stronger because the writers are coming up with stuff on the spot.

What if Broly comes back in this arc and is stronger than Granolah?

[Xeno Goku Black]

"Goku may have seemed perfect by the end of the Moro arc, but he still has plenty of room to grow: why, there’s Whis, Beerus, Broly, and the Grand Priest!"

That would then clearly suggest that Broly was indeed far stronger than Jiren and Moro. Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta also being stronger than Ultra Instinct Goku.

By that alone it would simply make the scale as

1. Granolah
2. Broly
3. Beerus
4. Ultra Instinct Goku
5. Moro
6. Jiren
7. Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta

Or Beerus could have just been underestimated and could potentially be #1.

But now apparently it was said Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are the top 3. Could still fit if you took the comment as "by the end of the Moro arc" to literally mean by that point. Goku and Vegeta have grown much stronger since then so could have both moved up past Broly as of the current events but it would also mean they'd both surpass Beerus unless again he was underestimated by Goku.

What was said exactly word for word?

[Nevaeh]

So Granolah, Goku and Vegeta are top dogs as far as mortals go but at the same time weaker than another mortal in Broly?

I'm sure some will gladly eat this up even if it doesn't make a lick of sense

[Koitsukai]

"Goku may have seemed perfect by the end of the Moro arc, but he still has plenty of room to grow: why, there’s Whis, Beerus, Broly, and the Grand Priest!"

That would then clearly suggest that Broly was indeed far stronger than Jiren and Moro. Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta also being stronger than Ultra Instinct Goku.

By that alone it would simply make the scale as

1. Granolah
2. Broly
3. Beerus
4. Ultra Instinct Goku
5. Moro
6. Jiren
7. Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta

Or Beerus could have just been underestimated and could potentially be #1.

But now apparently it was said Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are the top 3. Could still fit if you took the comment as "by the end of the Moro arc" to literally mean by that point. Goku and Vegeta have grown much stronger since then so could have both moved up past Broly as of the current events but it would also mean they'd both surpass Beerus unless again he was underestimated by Goku.

What was said exactly word for word?

According to Cipher's translation, and to those who watched the interview, Broly was mentioned by the editor who admittedly said to have as much PL, compared to Toyo and Tori, as Yamcha next to SS Goku and Namek Freeza. Meaning his word means close to nothing. Specially if Toyo leaves Broly out of the podium.

Broly was left behind by Moro73 at the very least. That much is in the manga. The rest are just assumptions from us the fans, most of them from Broly diehard fans.

So Granolah, Goku and Vegeta are top dogs as far as mortals go but at the same time weaker than another mortal in Broly?

I'm sure some will gladly eat this up even if it doesn't make a lick of sense

Broly being stronger than Gogeta who almost killed him is next in line lol

[Hugo Boss]

If anything this is a good example of why we should take Uchida and editorial staff’s additions as a grain of salt. Their dynamic suggests Broly could be potentially an idea to consider, but Toyotaro doesn’t consider it yet, as Broly is not even in his top3 by the end of conversation, and Toyotaro makes clear that (Beginning of Granolah Arc) Goku is below Whis and Beerus.

Even if Toyotaro’s top3 is about (post-training) Goku and Vegeta, and Broly perhaps could be stronger than their former versions, I don’t think his rank has shifted from what he already established on manga (Moro being his toughest opponent to date).

[Koitsukai]

If anything this is a good example of why we should take Uchida and editorial staff’s additions as a grain of salt. Their dynamic suggests Broly could be potentially an idea to consider, but Toyotaro doesn’t consider it yet, as Broly is not even in his top3 by the end of conversation, and Toyotaro makes clear that (Beginning of Granolah Arc) Goku is below Whis and Beerus.

Even if Toyotaro’s top3 is about (post-training) Goku and Vegeta, and Broly perhaps could be stronger than their former versions, I don’t think his rank has shifted from what he already established on manga (Moro being his toughest opponent to date).

Yes, I wouldn't close the door to Broly making a comeback and being stronger than before (like it should be for any returning character who challenges the heroes), mainly because Freeza and being a saiyan are part of this arc, and Broly checks both boxes. But this could be said about Freeza too, so we would only be talking about a character we don't even know that'll show up.
Hell, even if Toppo comes back should be as a proper hakai master able to challenge current Hakai Geets.

[SupremeKai25]

My God, the scaling of this series really went to shit after the Future Trunks arc huh. Jesus.

[Xeno Goku Black]

So what exactly did Toyo say power scaling wise?

Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are the top three and then what else? Anything that could hint towards anything?

[Koitsukai]

So what exactly did Toyo say power scaling wise?

Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are the top three and then what else? Anything that could hint towards anything?

I mean, he had already said that in the manga, so nothing new was brought up.

He didn't rank them, though, which might imply Vegeta beats Granola next week. Although, if that was going to be the case, then what better opportunity than this to say Granola is still number 1 and then surprise us all when Geets defeats him.
Or the exact opposite, last chaper ended in a cliffhanger implying Granola is fucked, and by not ranking them, maybe Granny isn't as fucked as we may think?

[Xeno Goku Black]

I thought someone said he said something about Beerus being above them?

[Thani]

Remember what Vegeta said: "Being stronger is no guarantee that you'll win". Also, Cell did say all the way back in DBZ "But then again, power isn't everything" to Future Trunks.

Granolah can still be superior in raw power to "Destruction Power" Vegeta, but lose their battle.

[Koitsukai]

I thought someone said he said something about Beerus being above them?

Nothing we already didn't know. Toyo included Beerus as those people who represent that there is still more room for growth, alongside Whis and the Daishinkan. The editor says Broly, missing Toyo's point by a mile.

You can watch the whole interview here: https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_392.html

[FishermanJohnWest]

Poor downplayers

Coping from what was said about broly

Upon watching the video, as soon as they brought up the subject of who is stronger they literally showed a panel of Broly and the Gp first before anyone, then victory says broly when naming people.

So cope hard that your headcanon is garbage.

[HeroR]

Poor downplayers

Coping from what was said about broly

Upon watching the video, as soon as they brought up the subject of who is stronger they literally showed a panel of Broly and the Gp first before anyone, then victory says broly when naming people.

So cope hard that your headcanon is garbage.

I have to somewhat agree. Broly was literally the first image they showed when them mentioned Goku have a lot of room to grow. And It was the the editor that said it who works with Toyo. So this isn't some random person saying this.

Although, I feel after the whole Vegito Blue is comparable to Beerus situation, Toyo really doesn't want to put anyone in front of Beerus no matter how little sense that makes. Because even by Toyo's own manga when he showed the gods being comparable to each other, it makes no sense for Beerus to be able to bitch slap Belmond which would be the scaling to put Beerus over Jiren. Toyo also admitted that he made UI Goku seemed perfect against Moro and basically nerfed him. Which was Toyo's own fault for making Merus say that no foe would be able to stand before UI and having Moro absorb Merus' power on top of 73's and have UI fight to a draw before Moro's body went out of wack. It really does reek of 'you didn't think this through', because he basically implied that Beerus had to be way stronger than Merus, an angel even if one in training, if Angel Moro before his body balloon was on par with UI and UI was still weaker than Beerus.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Poor downplayers

Coping from what was said about broly

Upon watching the video, as soon as they brought up the subject of who is stronger they literally showed a panel of Broly and the Gp first before anyone, then victory says broly when naming people.

So cope hard that your headcanon is garbage.

I have to somewhat agree. Broly was literally the first image they showed when them mentioned Goku have a lot of room to grow. And It was the the editor that said it who works with Toyo. So this isn't some random person saying this.

Although, I feel after the whole Vegito Blue is comparable to Beerus situation, Toyo really doesn't want to put anyone in front of Beerus no matter how little sense that makes. Because even by Toyo's own manga when he showed the gods being comparable to each other, it makes no sense for Beerus to be able to bitch slap Belmond which would be the scaling to put Beerus over Jiren. Toyo also admitted that he made UI Goku seemed perfect against Moro and basically nerfed him. Which was Toyo's own fault for making Merus say that no foe would be able to stand before UI and having Moro absorb Merus' power on top of 73's and have UI fight to a draw before Moro's body went out of wack. It really does reek of 'you didn't think this through', because he basically implied that Beerus had to be way stronger than Merus, an angel even if one in training, if Angel Moro before his body balloon was on par with UI and UI was still weaker than Beerus.

Its a risk they have to take when bringing big names like Broly, Vegito and Gogeta into the mix.

[HeroR]

Poor downplayers

Coping from what was said about broly

Upon watching the video, as soon as they brought up the subject of who is stronger they literally showed a panel of Broly and the Gp first before anyone, then victory says broly when naming people.

So cope hard that your headcanon is garbage.

I have to somewhat agree. Broly was literally the first image they showed when them mentioned Goku have a lot of room to grow. And It was the the editor that said it who works with Toyo. So this isn't some random person saying this.

Although, I feel after the whole Vegito Blue is comparable to Beerus situation, Toyo really doesn't want to put anyone in front of Beerus no matter how little sense that makes. Because even by Toyo's own manga when he showed the gods being comparable to each other, it makes no sense for Beerus to be able to bitch slap Belmond which would be the scaling to put Beerus over Jiren. Toyo also admitted that he made UI Goku seemed perfect against Moro and basically nerfed him. Which was Toyo's own fault for making Merus say that no foe would be able to stand before UI and having Moro absorb Merus' power on top of 73's and have UI fight to a draw before Moro's body went out of wack. It really does reek of 'you didn't think this through', because he basically implied that Beerus had to be way stronger than Merus, an angel even if one in training, if Angel Moro before his body balloon was on par with UI and UI was still weaker than Beerus.

Its a risk they have to take when bringing big names like Broly, Vegito and Gogeta into the mix.

I don't think it's really a 'risk'. The issue is that Toyo didn't want Goku to surpass Beerus, but he gave Goku full access to UI and made it stronger. Then in the next arc, he nerfs it by giving it stamina issues that it didn't seem to have in the previous arc and Goku went toe-to-toe with someone who also had UI (at least we assume when Moro absorbed Merus). What is so bad is this could have been avoided by not giving Goku UI back in the first place since auto-dodge made no sense against an energy drainer until Toyo retcon how Moro's power work. Because Moro's energy absorb was clearly an AOE and then suddenly Moro had to aim and Goku could dodge. He also downgraded Moro from a magical hax who you just couldn't meat head to just another bruiser who you could meat head.

[Koitsukai]

I guess Broly is not a mortal anymore, after all Toyo did say the 1st, the 2nd and the 3rd strongest in the universe are fighting each other... or maybe Broly is no longer part of U7, or Broly actually is Granola in disguise. Or perhaps the number 1 is no longer the first number! Whatever works better for the fandom.

[Marz]

I guess Broly is not a mortal anymore, after all Toyo did say the 1st, the 2nd and the 3rd strongest in the universe are fighting each other... or maybe Broly is no longer part of U7, or Broly actually is Granola in disguise. Or perhaps the number 1 is no longer the first number! Whatever works better for the fandom.

Granola became the strongest in the universe and the only exceptions are the deities! And a random human on an uninhabited planet, for some reason...

I guess the magic of the dragon didn't work on him or he just tricked Granola all this time, following some people's logic...lol

[VegettoEX]

Poor downplayers

Coping from what was said about broly

Upon watching the video, as soon as they brought up the subject of who is stronger they literally showed a panel of Broly and the Gp first before anyone, then victory says broly when naming people.

So cope hard that your headcanon is garbage.

This is such an unbelievably bizarre way to talk to your fellow fans (what little I can even parse...?). This is not an example to follow, everyone.

Free warning -- account strikes will follow with additional posts of this type.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see any fault on behalf of Toyotaro yet. His storyline seems very easy to follow until now. Goku and Vegeta are growing and Beerus is their endgame. And he also makes clear enough (through Vegeta this time) that traditional strength isn’t everything in a fight, suggesting Beerus isn’t only formidable because of the common sense people have about strength. Next chapter will shed a light on this and we will see if Toyotaro can make this work out.

Anyway, despite of what Uchida and the video edition try to imply, I prefer to stick with what Toyotaro is consistently telling us: Gods > Granolah~Goku~Vegeta > everyone else.