"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DSB]

Are you listening to yourself? Let's all organise to hound the creator of the manga on twitter so they know how much you hate the leaks?? Chill out.

well i already fired a tweet tagging him without any abuse. also reminded that why the writer of DB AF can never be good.

i mean its clear what Toriyamam thinks of DB these days. Choosing the writer of DB AF as his successor lmao.

Yeah well, I just checked Toyo's recent mentions and the only tweet that mentions AF is this one and I sincerely hope it isn't you but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Regardless, the need for fandoms to jump to toxicity and personally message creators on twitter when they don't like their creative decisions is just shitty, stupid and childish, and shouldn't be encouraged (let alone rallied for) lest tweets like the above exist. Especially when it's based on a few panels of leaks for a chapter that hasn't been released. And especially if the entire basis of the criticism is "Vegeta never gets the win".

What elitist BS. it's like GOT fans were wrong letting the directors know what they thought after it ended or DCEU fans letting WB know how bad Josstice league was and wanting the snydercut.

We are consumers. The voice is ours. We should use it to let the creators know our mind when they push out garbage in the name of content.

You might be okay with accepting BS but I'm not. No one should

[TKA]

If Vegeta losing a fight makes you upset, I'd be willing to wager you don't understand the character or what he represents.

What elitist BS. it's like GOT fans were wrong letting the directors know what they thought after it ended or DCEU fans letting WB know how bad Josstice league was and wanting the snydercut.

We are consumers. The voice is ours. We should use it to let the creators know our mind when they push out garbage in the name of content.

You might be okay with accepting BS but I'm not. No one should

Complete nonsense.

As someone involved with the heads of r/DC_Cinematic, don't lump the Snyder Cut movement in with this stupid mindset. Don't go after individual people. Don't @ creators in your whining. The Snyder Cut movement spent most of its efforts raising money for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, doing other charity work, interacting with Zack Snyder on Vero and tweeting about their enthusiasm for what Zack Snyder had done.

Directly sending messages to creators to show your dissatisfaction is infantile, abusive and lame af. You can criticize, you can shit on the work, but don't tag the creators in your nonsense. It's bullshit that has no place in a healthy fandom.

[Jack Bz]

What elitist BS. it's like GOT fans were wrong letting the directors know what they thought after it ended or DCEU fans letting WB know how bad Josstice league was and wanting the snydercut.

We are consumers. The voice is ours. We should use it to let the creators know our mind when they push out garbage in the name of content.

You might be okay with accepting BS but I'm not. No one should

You couldn't formulate proper criticism if your life depended on it, so your message to Toyo is worthless. It's not feedback, it's not a well formed opinion with reasons, it's moronic mouth frothing fan rage because a character lost a fight. If you think that messaging him saying he is shit and that Toriyama must have gone mad is a noble cause (and that I'm elitist for calling that out as ridiculous), then I don't know what to tell you. Your comment to him is useless and cruel and emblematic of what is wrong with so many fandoms.

There is absolutely a difference between criticism/discussion and aiming hatred at someone who hasn't done anything to you.

[Marz]

If Vegeta loses against the strongest in the Universe, why is that bad writing? Can someone explain that to me? Hell, Vegeta explicitly expresses Granolah's superiority.

Most people HAD EXPECTED that Vegeta wouldn't defeat Granola. Check out the predictions about future chapters and most people say they already expected the fight to be stopped somehow. ''Vegeta not getting the win'' is not the problem
Btw, he expresses the Granola's superiority before the new transformation, which was already obvious

It would be worse if Vegeta wins with an unexplained transformation. Toppo doing something that might be related in another medium isn't worth anything and somehow people ignored it and were more worried about eyebrows.

It is not an unexplained transformation when the reason why this power exists was the subject of a few chapters at the beginning of this saga with Beerus' exposition about it. And on top of that, the name of this chapter is ''A God of Destruction's power'', so it was expected that more information about this form would be given anyway

People confuse their expectations with quality and bring the pitchforks out. It's exactly like the chapter when the humans were eliminated in ToP, everyone was waiting for some fan-service like in the anime and probably the best written chapter of the whole arc was blasted.

It has nothing to do with expectations, you don't introduce a concept with a previous build up like that and handle it that way. What is the message of this? A lot of people complain about previous transformations that have been introduced and have failed to do something significant against the bad guys and treat it like it's a bad thing, why here is that a good thing?

How unsatisfying would it be if Goku's mastered Ultra Instinct failed miserably against Moro, after all the build up for that moment?

[DSB]

If Vegeta losing a fight makes you upset, I'd be willing to wager you don't understand the character or what he represents.

What elitist BS. it's like GOT fans were wrong letting the directors know what they thought after it ended or DCEU fans letting WB know how bad Josstice league was and wanting the snydercut.

We are consumers. The voice is ours. We should use it to let the creators know our mind when they push out garbage in the name of content.

You might be okay with accepting BS but I'm not. No one should

Complete nonsense.

As someone involved with the heads of r/DC_Cinematic, don't lump the Snyder Cut movement in with this stupid mindset. Don't go after individual people. Don't @ creators in your whining. The Snyder Cut movement spent most of its efforts raising money for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, doing other charity work, interacting with Zack Snyder on Vero and tweeting about their enthusiasm for what Zack Snyder had done.

Directly sending messages to creators to show your dissatisfaction is infantile, abusive and lame af. You can criticize, you can shit on the work, but don't tag the creators in your nonsense. It's bullshit that has no place in a healthy fandom.

Remind me again what you people did to James gunn and the new SS movie, so much so that he had to give interviews about it? Not to mention review bombing GVK and hurling abuses to the directors.

You people shouldn't talk this much. You have done far worse than what I said. I could have easily said a lot worse.

[TBMx]

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Why is it suddenly rude and and abusive to complain to a published writer over social media about their product, but fine to complain about food, drink, stationery, appliances, literally everything else?

What's special about writing?

Also it'd be great if Granolah was allowed to be flawed and wrong about something, but I guess not. He's not allowed to make mistakes apparently. So all the themes of the last chapter are null and void, I'm so sorry.

[Grimlock]

I wonder how many times does Vegeta have to lose, or how many build-up-only-to-fail is necessary for people to stop defending something that happens over and over again.

We're in the exact same spot as when there was build up for Vegeta against Moro, only for him to get defeated, there were people actually defending that writing at the time. The exact same situation is happening again, and there are people defending this.

The sagas are always the same, the characters (action, reaction, behavior and etc) always the same. Nothing changes, and there are those who are okay with that. It's sad.

[DSB]

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Why is it suddenly rude and and abusive to complain to a published writer over social media about their product, but fine to complain about food, drink, stationery, appliances, literally everything else?

What's special about writing?

Also it'd be great if Granolah was allowed to be flawed and wrong about something, but I guess not. He's not allowed to make mistakes apparently. So all the themes of the last chapter are null and void, I'm so sorry.

according to these people we must be grateful because they are gods and we must bow to even even if they spew garbage. as if we havent financially contributed and bought stuff labeled dragon ball.

god i hate these elitist jerks. i really hope western woke culture never gains that much foothold in my country

[TBMx]

Does anyone else feel like Granolah is a Gary Stue?

His character flaws were literally laid on the table in front of us, so no.
He’s gonna get his behind kicked sooner or later anyways...

For the record, you don’t need to be perfect to be a Sue.

. When writing a flaw, you're supposed to give the character the motivation to want to correct said flaw and learn something and therefore develop. IF Granolah already crushes the the greatest of the saiyans then what's to learn? That he's awesome? Didn't he already know that?

[LightBing]

Most people HAD EXPECTED that Vegeta wouldn't defeat Granola. Check out the predictions about future chapters and most people say they already expected the fight to be stopped somehow. ''Vegeta not getting the win'' is not the problem
Btw, he expresses the Granola's superiority before the new transformation, which was already obvious

By the reactions around I don't think so.
The author might be tempering expectations about the transformation by having Vegeta admit inferiority.

It is not an unexplained transformation when the reason why this power exists was the subject of a few chapters at the beginning of this saga with Beerus' exposition about it. And on top of that, the name of this chapter is ''A God of Destruction's power'', so it was expected that more information about this form would be given anyway

Nothing about Hakai implies it leads to a transformation. Beerus doesn't mention it or is seen using anything of the sort.
But I agree that the next is the one to offer an explanation.

It has nothing to do with expectations, you don't introduce a concept with a previous build up like that and handle it that way. What is the message of this? A lot of people complain about previous transformations that have been introduced and have failed to do something significant against the bad guys and treat it like it's a bad thing, why here is that a good thing?

Why not? It would just show how serious of a thread Granolah is. How far Vegeta still has to grow like Goku.
It all depends on how it's written.

[kemuri07]

How unsatisfying would it be if Goku's mastered Ultra Instinct failed miserably against Moro, after all the build up for that moment?

That's not even remotely the same thing. Moro is the end boss of the arc. Of course Goku was going to win. We're not even past the first act of this arc, so it's not surprising that Vegeta doesn't dominate. More importantly, and depending on the writing, the former example "could" work as an act of subversion. Maybe not appropriate for DB itself, but it's a valid way of going against the grain.


The problem I often have with fans, espeicially DBZ fandom, is that certain tend to conflate quality with being satisfied. Many people, including on this one, seem to get upset when their favorite character doesn't get what they believe is their dues. Remember when Roshi actually yelled at Goku for focusing too much on strength and not on form, that a small tanget of fanboys got upset because "HOW DARE SOMEONE LIKE ROSHI TEL OFF GOKU." Yes a story needs to be satisfying, but fans need to be able to trust the storyteller on where they're taking the story. If everything is meant to satisfy the audience, then nothing matters. IF you want an example, go see the DB Heroes series which all fanservice all the time. Sometimes holding back is a good thing, because it makes later victories much more sweeter.

[PurestEvil]

There is nothing wrong with criticizing an author for poor narrative choices, especially when constructively telling them what they are doing wrongly.
The problem is, on social media, “demanding the author to change” is merely a euphemism for sending a myriad of hate messages to said author en masse, causing a deterioration of their mental state.

It’s okay to be disappointed, even get upset, with a flaw in a story, but to get this furious and irate is noting short of immature.

[kemuri07]

well i already fired a tweet tagging him without any abuse. also reminded that why the writer of DB AF can never be good.

i mean its clear what Toriyamam thinks of DB these days. Choosing the writer of DB AF as his successor lmao.

Yeah well, I just checked Toyo's recent mentions and the only tweet that mentions AF is this one and I sincerely hope it isn't you but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Regardless, the need for fandoms to jump to toxicity and personally message creators on twitter when they don't like their creative decisions is just shitty, stupid and childish, and shouldn't be encouraged (let alone rallied for) lest tweets like the above exist. Especially when it's based on a few panels of leaks for a chapter that hasn't been released. And especially if the entire basis of the criticism is "Vegeta never gets the win".

What elitist BS. it's like GOT fans were wrong letting the directors know what they thought after it ended or DCEU fans letting WB know how bad Josstice league was and wanting the snydercut.

We are consumers. The voice is ours. We should use it to let the creators know our mind when they push out garbage in the name of content.

You might be okay with accepting BS but I'm not. No one should

If you cannot tell the difference between respectful disagreeing and outright virtuol because you didn't get the thing you wanted--you're part of the problem.

I"ve said this once and I will say this again: NONE OF THIS SHIT ACTUALLY MATTERS. DBZ, as entertaining as it is, is just a fucking cartoon. GoT is just a television show. These are both media properties intended to extract money from us for the privilege of getting a break from how shit the world is. You can absolutely disagree with shows and even the creators, what you should not do is attack people. If you think that's justified, then you need help. You need a therapist. Because you cannot do that thing and take a step back and recognize what this is. And that's dangerous.

[BWri]

Spoiler:

I expected people to be disappointed, but wow, there's already 3 pages of gripes from today's leak. I'm not complaining about the disappointment because I think that's fair, I just don't get why people are this disappointed. It's almost as if his off-panel loss in the Moro arc was erased from everyone's mind. That pretty much cemented things for me ... and that's on top of the series trend.

DB is nothing, if not cyclical. At best, we'll get subtle refinements of the formula - with some stand-out moments.

But all that said, I don't think we're close to the end of this arc. Hopefully the fight is done though. I love fights, but man does it feel like we've been stuck in this one. Maybe its because I'm not finding Granolah that interesting. I did at first, but after the wish, ugh! And his motivations are so basic. They really have to start writing better antagonists. Jiren, Granolah, and even Moro have been kinda basic.

[TKA]

Remind me again what you people did to James gunn and the new SS movie

There are belligerent, overzealous loons in every fandom. If you are @ing Toyotaro with your complaints (re: harassing him) then you're one of them.

As a consumer, your only power is to support the product or not. It's not your place to tell creatives how to create. It sure as shit isn't your place to bombard them with your anger on social media, especially for something as inconsequential as a fictitious story.

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Go @ the companies. Don't @ the private social medias of the individual people involved. This is the same stupid gamerbro logic that sees developers getting harassed on social media instead of the companies involved. Jesus Christ, how is this hard to understand?

[UpFromTheSkies]

Spoiler:

They made Vegeta so bad ass with the new form, I thought he was finally gonna get a win but noooooo I don't hate Toyo over it though, I'm dissapointed but was secretly expecting this to happen.

[kemuri07]

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Why is it suddenly rude and and abusive to complain to a published writer over social media about their product, but fine to complain about food, drink, stationery, appliances, literally everything else?

What's special about writing?

Also it'd be great if Granolah was allowed to be flawed and wrong about something, but I guess not. He's not allowed to make mistakes apparently. So all the themes of the last chapter are null and void, I'm so sorry.

according to these people we must be grateful because they are gods and we must bow to even even if they spew garbage. as if we havent financially contributed and bought stuff labeled dragon ball.

god i hate these elitist jerks. i really hope western woke culture never gains that much foothold in my country

So Vegeta losing somehow is the fault of western woke culture? Like...the fuck?

[BWri]

As a consumer, your only power is to support the product or not. It's not your place to tell creatives how to create. It sure as shit isn't your place to bombard them with your anger on social media, especially for something as inconsequential as a fictitious story.

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Go @ the companies. Don't @ the private social medias of the individual people involved. This is the same stupid gamerbro logic that sees developers getting harassed on social media instead of the companies involved. Jesus Christ, how is this hard to understand?

In this case, I'd say to do something more constructive with that energy and work on/write/record a review. Or discuss it on a message board like the rest of us semi-civilized forum dwellers. There really is no need to @ creatives with vitriol or gripes. They are only human, after all so they are usually unable to quantify that data meaningfully especially if it's coming from thousands if not millions of people. Social media tends to due this weird thing of magnifying the negative and giving it more value, so even if there's more positive opinions about something, the negative tends to supercede it via engagement algorithms. Also humans tend to focus on the negative more than the positive, which even creators are prone to.

If enough people hate something, it trends anyway (like Vegeta today) so that'll bring it to the attention of the creative if they so choose to engage with it. @'ing them directly is just aggressive. I've @'d a few creatives, mainly wrestlers with criticisms, but TKA has forced me to think that there are better ways of engaging so I'm going to change my own habits. I wish it were like the olden days, with fan mail. That at least required more of an investment so people couldn't just pop off whenever they felt like it.

[VegettoEX]

If you are directly messaging or posting at authors and artists that you otherwise have no working or personal relationship with containing unprompted tirades of criticism, you are an absolute lunatic and you need to be separated from technology.

Don't be a reactionary nincompoop lashing out about things, particularly those you haven't even seen or read in its entirety in your own language.

Co-signing the taking companies to task, not the individual contributors.

The October 2021 issue of V-Jump hits Japanese shelves August 19th. The English translation of that magazine's Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 75 will be available on Wednesday, August 18th, at 11:00 a.m. eastern time, which is timed to midnight at the respective magazine launch day in Japan.

[Thani]

This thread just got really amazing really fast. And not in a good way!

Anyway, Vegeta losing, to me, was expected. Granolah didn't do much despite being the supposed "strongest", so it's nice to see him prove his title.

HOWEVER, let's not forget that Granolah DEFEATED Goku by exploiting UI's weakness. There's nothing to say he won't do the same with Vegeta. So chill, people, and let's see the whole picture before shitting on Toyo. After all, Vegeta starts the chapter completely demolishing our cerealian protagonist. So let's see how he flips the table on his favour, yeah?

To me this chapter just hammers down the simple fact that DAMN, THESE FOOLS SHOULD HAVE JUST WORKED TOGETHER FROM THE START. They always lose when they pull this shit. Always. It's really infuriating hahaha