"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[batistabus]

Vegeta with this form kinda regressed from the last arc. Last arc he felt he needed to attone for his past sins and that he thought he was still Hellbound (Development I love from this more Family Man Vegeta). Now he's spending Months away from his family, being taught to throw away his guilt for power, and getting thrown on his ass.

I don't see how that is a regression. Vegeta has been portrayed as a better family man than Goku in certain circumstances, but do you want him to just be this vanilla dad character?

I hope whatever arc happens next just doesn't have Vegeta in it so he can spend time with Bulma and his new born he hasn't spent time with in 6 months.

I'd be happy to see some more of that in DBS Super Hero.

As an Author myself, this bother me a lot. Why keep a character around that you don't like? If I write a character that I don't enjoy I'm gonna either fix it to where I think it works better or drop the character all togethor.

He admits Vegeta is useful. Vegeta moves the story due to his personality. Toriyama takes that seriously, even if he doesn't like the character as much as Goku/Piccolo.

To Compare him to another character in a Similar role as Vegeta. Roronao Zoro has lost his fair share of fights. And not one time does it make Zoro look like a Loser like it does Vegeta. And Zoro gets his fair share of cool defeats.

While I have read all of One Piece up until part-way through the Wano arc (I need to catch up), I'm not as invested in it as DB, so excuse me if I'm getting some of this wrong. Zoro gets cool moments, but he's fighting characters that are a good match for him. Luffy wants to be Pirate King. Zoro is satisfied with being the top swordsman. While Goku is constantly striving for the peak of martial arts, Vegeta also wants to be #1. Vegeta loses trying to beat the main villain while Zoro gets to defeat an impressive henchman. Vegeta would not be satisfied in Zoro's role.

In the super manga, Vegeta has litterally not defeated even a single character of importance to the story at all.

Again, why does that matter? Vegeta cares about winning, but I just care about an interesting story.

While Vegeta didn't get the kill on Golden Freeza, Vegeta won the fight. Vegeta beat 3/5 of the Universe 6 team. His match against Cabba was a highlight of the arc.

[Cipher]

Can’t believe Vegeta might not win this fight this is outrageous just look at all these other characters who have won major fights at any point in either series:

Gohan (once ever)
Vegeta (many times)

Too many to name and Vegeta can’t even get one just outrageous. What is this, a story and not some kind of sports thing where we’re supposed to cheerlead characters? Is it some kind of comic??

[DiscountDabi]

Can’t believe Vegeta might not win this fight this is outrageous just look at all these other characters who have won major fights at any point in either series:

Gohan (once ever)
Vegeta (many times)

Too many to name and Vegeta can’t even get one just outrageous. What is this, a story and not some kind of sports thing where we’re supposed to cheerlead characters? Is it some kind of comic??

Its not even that he looses. Its that they build him up like he's important and that he actually stands a chance before tossing him to the dirt. The last two chapters have litterally been a waste of time. Vegeta could have lost last chapter in Blue Evolution and we could move the story along without Bulstering a character you're not gonna do anything with.

[Cipher]

Its not even that he looses. Its that they build him up like he's important and that he actually stands a chance before tossing him to the dirt. The last two chapters have litterally been a waste of time. Vegeta could have lost last chapter in Blue Evolution and we could move the story along without Bulstering a character you're not gonna do anything with.

Maybe Granolah does something cool that ups the tension and required a character boxing him him before reversing the situation again. And maybe Vegeta’s power-up plays a role again later in the story, in addition to what’s already done as a character beat win or lose.

Those are possibilities impossible to judge based solely on the idea of a win or loss, which is all we have at this point. And frankly it’s no more worth dwelling on than Goku also losing after attempting his new UI skills at that point, as a first-act beat.

There’s nothing different except—and this is important because people get super weird about it for god only knows what reason; I truly do not understand—it’s Vegeta.

[BWri]

As an Author myself, this bother me a lot. Why keep a character around that you don't like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuYfScGpbE
Cha-ching baby!

[Sora Saiyan]

This whole point revolves around Vegeta losing in this chapter.
See for me this Vegeta thing is a bummer. It's sort of presented how stagnant the story will be with him in this role. Where as previously I had a belief that Vegeta will, at some point, get an important victory against the major villain of an arc (even if it doesn't finish the arc) But now I've got to a point where I just want to see something different than what's become the norm, Vegeta in Super is an entirely different animal than in Z (because of it being the Goku and Vegeta show, not in a power sense), and because of that its why a lot of fans have hope that something will happen with him differently when it really counts.
As it stands, that chapter of hype before was useless outside of the rule of cool, and another gripe is how this new form isn't being treated with with same care as UI (although it makes sense, it seems like it's come from nowhere when compared to UI). Vegeta has just slowed down the progression even further, and if the point of last chapter was for Granloah to go from a fighter that can't fight properly to perfecting it in the span of a couple of minutes then I personally I wish we didn't have last chapter, and he was perfect once he had the wish.
The one thing that will likely come for this chapter will be people's expectations dropping when Vegeta takes the stage, and for me Vegeta fights will just be a bit more dull, no longer will I be filled with gleeful excitement for the next chapter when it's his turn believing there's a real possibility he may finally get the big W, but instead I'll manage my expectations and just look forward to him being swatted out the way cause he's slowing shit down.l needlessly. "Get off my screen big forehead man, stop wasting our time and give Goku the other bean."

Now if his loss is handled in a different way, like his new power explodes in his face, and Granolah essentially gets lucky, then there's no issue for me. His powers new, and hopefully it's the Omen version. I can't see it going like that, and if not I'm just glad the inevitable loss is out the way in 1 chapter. Its also gonna be interesting to see how they get out of this alive. The Heeters stop the fight somehow, or maybe Granolah has awakened UI and has calmed down a lot leading to something else. If that's the case at least Vegeta the punching bag has served a purpose.
If Granolah has powered up Vegeta really just can't escape powering up the antagonist, even if by accident.

[Cipher]

As an Author myself, this bother me a lot. Why keep a character around that you don't like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuYfScGpbE
Cha-ching baby!

I think more to the point ... did anyone ask this question of, say, Piccolo in the original run? Or literally ... any character but Vegeta, since they all tended to lose fights even after moments in the spotlight too?

No one ever really seemed to jump on a “Does Toriyama hate Piccolo?” rhetoric, right? Vegeta’s special though, because ______ (I don’t know).

[TKA]

1. The chapter isn’t out yet and people are panicking over out of context panels, like they always do. You wanna talk about repetitive shit? That’s it right there.

2. In all of fiction, there’s not a single character that I think has more nuance and who resonates more with me as a person than Vegeta. My favorite stretch of Vegeta was everything he did in the Android arc, which many think is his lowest point because all he did was lose. If you can’t appreciate what his character arc was there, then the Vegeta you’ve built up in your head isn’t the one Toriyama wrote. Maybe you got it from movies and filler.

Wrestling today is dead in comparison to past events & figures so getting mad about it is ultimately silly.

Wrestling right now is the hottest it’s ever been in 20 years. AEW rocks and Kenny Omega is better than your favorite wrestler.

[HeroR]

Don't know if this type of idea or theory has been brought up here before but just came across this thread on twitter
and wanted to share it with ya'll to see what you all think?

https://twitter.com/Synthecerelite/stat ... 80160?s=20

Go read my Reply to his Tweet. Twitter name is "Kaiza"

its repetetive

Sure, but that's part of the deal.

I posted Vegeta's final panels from the end of the original manga earlier. That scene implies Vegeta will never best Kakarot throughout Super. We'll see if Tori/Toyo stick to that, but that's what the series is working towards.

Toriyama says Goku "absolutely never changes", and while Vegeta has learned to be a decent guy and a family man, he's stubborn as well.

Knowing that the Saiyans never learn, Whis warned that their rivalry might get in the way of the incoming battle. Perhaps Vegeta's focus on surpassing Goku has hindered his mastery of Wagamama no Gokui. (The chapter's still not out yet.)

In a cosmic sense, although Vegeta is doing more to atone for his sins, he continues to receive punishment. We have reason to root for him at this point, but Vegeta was a really shitty guy for a long time.

We can't forget that Vegeta's a cartoon character living in Toriyama's cartoon world. The Roadrunner will always outsmart the Coyote, and so on.

and keeps Vegeta in the same spot

In what sense? Ranking #2 or #3? What about Vegeta's emotional growth? Beerus isn't just teaching him Hakai.

it also Gives me no reason to care when Vegeta gets a new form since it will amount to nothing

What about the rest of the fight? If there's interesting story beats, dialogue, art, lore, themes, etc., does it matter if Vegeta gets a point on the scoreboard?

Like you did, I'm gonna take this point by point. First, Vegeta with this form kinda regressed from the last arc. Last arc he felt he needed to attone for his past sins and that he thought he was still Hellbound (Development I love from this more Family Man Vegeta). Now he's spending Months away from his family, being taught to throw away his guilt for power, and getting thrown on his ass.

I hope whatever arc happens next just doesn't have Vegeta in it so he can spend time with Bulma and his new born he hasn't spent time with in 6 months.

For your second point. Like I said before, his development in this arc is regression from where he was in the last arc. I was curious last chapter for what this form means for his character. But if its just a means for the bad guy to look tough (Again) then it doesn't matter.

For your last point...well let me show you these two pictures:

Spoiler:

As an Author myself, this bother me a lot. Why keep a character around that you don't like? If I write a character that I don't enjoy I'm gonna either fix it to where I think it works better or drop the character all togethor.

This along side the leaks for this chapter and the stuff in the Moro arc just tells me that Vegeta will continue where he is now and will never have a signifigant impact on the story on his own ever again. And you know what. It would be fine if they didn't keep shoving him in every story and be like "Hey guys. Vegeta's gonna be cool here. Just you see" before embarrasing him again.

To Compare him to another character in a Similar role as Vegeta. Roronao Zoro has lost his fair share of fights. And not one time does it make Zoro look like a Loser like it does Vegeta. And Zoro gets his fair share of cool defeats.

In the super manga, Vegeta has litterally not defeated even a single character of importance to the story at all. And has routinley been layed out flat on his ass. Sometimes you just have to expect more from an Author, even when you know it'll never happen.

Toriyama said he didn't like Vegeta literal decades ago and he even said after Battle of Gods came out that he likes him more recently. Also, Toyo is the one writing this arc, so how Toriyama feels about Vegeta is far more downplayed. Finally, being Toriyama's favorite doesn't mean much when his favorite characters over the years have been Goku, Tien, Piccolo, Mr. Satan, and Jaco. Out of everyone on that list, only Goku gets focused with Piccolo being kinda of meme himself these days and Satan and Jaco being comic relief. As for Tien, yeah Tien is a meme right now with people calling him the new Yamcha.

As an Author myself, this bother me a lot. Why keep a character around that you don't like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuYfScGpbE
Cha-ching baby!

I think more to the point ... did anyone ask this question of, say, Piccolo in the original run? Or literally ... any character but Vegeta, since they all tended to lose fights even after moments in the spotlight too?

No one ever really seemed to jump on a “Does Toriyama hate Piccolo?” rhetoric, right? Vegeta’s special though, because ______ (I don’t know).

Gohan does gets this too, although nowhere near as often as Vegeta and Gohan's fans beef is more justified in that Gohan got hit by the nerf bat several times and had his role greatly reduced. For the most part, Vegeta fans seem to think he's 'owed' a win despite him having screen time, development, and fights that most of the cast would kill for. Like if this was happening to Piccolo, most fans would rejoiced that Piccolo hurt a massive villain and forced them to go all out even if it ends in a L.

[Trouser]

I think more to the point ... did anyone ask this question of, say, Piccolo in the original run? Or literally ... any character but Vegeta, since they all tended to lose fights even after moments in the spotlight too?

No one ever really seemed to jump on a “Does Toriyama hate Piccolo?” rhetoric, right? Vegeta’s special though, because ______ (I don’t know).

Vegeta fanboys will always complain. Even if he does get to kill "the big bad" nothing will change. I understand that constant bashing Vegeta may be hurtful for his fanbase (to me it's always funny when he's cocky and is later defeated) and I agree that it's becoming a little boring but he's not the main character and never will be. He got plenty of screen time, he did shine many times, got AMAZING character development, helped many times and moved the story forward but with Vegeta fans it's always the same old thing "hurr durr he no kill bad guy hurr durr".
Fans of other characters can only dream of their favourite characters being THAT relevant to the story.

[BWri]

Wrestling right now is the hottest it’s ever been in 20 years. AEW rocks and Kenny Omega is better than your favorite wrestler.

I like Kenny; he's great in the ring, has a killer moveset, and he loves dope videogames, but he is not a full package wrestler. He's a massive goofball who tends to crack me up when on the mic, sometimes intentionally but oftentimes unintentionally.

But yeah, we got wrestling everyday of the week now y'all and it is all varieties of awesome ... tho some not so awesome.

[theherodjl]

Wrestling today is dead in comparison to past events & figures so getting mad about it is ultimately silly.

Wrestling right now is the hottest it’s ever been in 20 years. AEW rocks and Kenny Omega is better than your favorite wrestler.

I guess this is the part where we're supposed to argue over Twinkletoes Mcfingerbang as Jim Cornette calls him...but like I said, it's ultimately silly to get mad over a declining business.

[batistabus]

Shoutout to Cipher for predicting the localization of Wagamama no Gokui:

Spoiler:

Ultra Ego

[Gt91]

Another great chapter for me.
- Vegeta is really cool in this new form.
He took to many damages, and he now knows his limits. He paid his arrogance as always. I don't mind the new name.
- Healing powers for Goku? I don't like it.
- Good to see Granollah getting new powers as well. He's getting better and better everytime he fights.
- The last page is very interesting! What could they ask first?

[kemuri07]

Anyone whining about Vegeta losing needs to sit the heck down. Seriously, there are so many cool "Vegeta" moments in this one chapter despite him losing that I have no idea how anyone could walk away disappointed.

[theherodjl]

Spoiler:

I was right. Vegeta cared too much about showing up Granolah that he intentionally took on all of his attacks in the heat of battle to brag about his new power or "Ultra Ego". Had Vegeta not done so, his power probably wouldn't have dropped as it did and he either would've won or at least made Granolah drop enough power to be beaten a Goku/Vegeta team up.
I guess Goku got it right when asked by Roshi, they don't "learn well".

[Xeogran]

So this is how Oatmeel becomes relevant on it's own.
Guess it's gonna find a new host... and there is a big chance that will be Seven-Three.

[rolmanus]

I want Vegeta to finally win as much as all of his fans, but this chapter is just awesome, and so is the prince himself btw. Also: he didn't even lose.

[DSB]

Fucking hell. This is worse than what i thought the leaks was making out to be.

I'm done. I'm out. Guy somehow changes his eye structure mid fight and somehow thats enough to win. Even Mary Sue would blush. And new form loses the chapter it debuted. thats unprecedented.

Absolute bullshit. The average Porn has better writing than this garbage.

Then again, guy wrote DB AF. What else did i expect.

[VegettoEX]

Co-signed on the localization prediction shout-out. I think it's a great choice, all things considered.

Fucking hell. This is worse than what i thought the leaks was making out to be.

I'm done. I'm out. Guy somehow changes his eye structure mid fight and somehow thats enough to win. Even Mary Sue would blush. And new form loses the chapter it debuted. thats unprecedented.

Absolute bullshit. The average Porn has better writing than this garbage.

Then again, guy wrote DB AF. What else did i expect.

See you next month, then?