explain the pseudo retcons in DB

[Alkiser]

1 Goku's arrival on earth according to Dragon Ball Minus

According to a special chapter from the Jaco manga written and drawn by Akire Toriyame, Goku was sent by Bardock and Gine in a space capsule to earth. A lot of people think it's a retcon because the DBZ special episode showed a completely different story of Goku's arrival on earth. But it is not a retcon because:

1) It is not a story written by Toriyame, and it is, as it turned out according to mythic canon, a misinterpretation by the studio.
2) The manga never showed what Goku looked like when he arrived on earth, so he might as well have had armor on and been those 2-3 years old.
3) Toriyama liked the story of the former Bardock enough to write his story after so many years to be consistent with his manga.
4) Jaco is a prequel drawn and developed by Toriyama (not Toei), which gives it more credibility than the 90s special.
5) The special might as well be called a filler because the story in the manga wasn't there.

2) Beerus is still stronger than Goku and Vegeta

This is no retcon because:

1) Everything Vegeta can currently do, Beerus can do 1000 times better.
2. Beerus can also use Ui even though he doesn't feel the need to.
3. normally I wouldn't be writing this if it wasn't for the recent Toyotaro interview, which has suddenly outraged the power level sages of kanzenshuu, who are calling the latest revelation a retcon. In case anyone isn't familiar, Toyotaro said that Goku still has plenty of room to grow to the level of Beerus, Whis, and High Priest, and it began...

"But why isn't Goku MUI stronger than Beerus"
"But Goku after mastering MUI should be above Beerus"
"Beerus' power being increased from saga to saga is an exaggeration after all Goku MUI is stronger"

And so on and so forth
The only thing that can be said about Beerus' power is that he is the strongest God of Destruction along with Quitela, since both of them were the last to withstand all the Gods of Destruction in a showdown, and that he is weaker than any angel. As for mortals, Beerus is still the unseen ceiling our heroes wish to reach. You could also try to reference Toriyama's scaling from the Battle of Gods movie period, but I think he either abandoned or forgot about it because the current scaling is completely different from what it was 8 years ago, plus a couple of arcs later Beerus was easily beaten in perfect ssj blue. I would also like to remind you that the issue of Jiren being stronger than his God of Destruction was only mentioned in the anime, it wasn't mentioned in the manga, so I don't take it into account because both sources are governed by different laws.

It's impossible to determine anyone's power super accurately (especially Beerus), because in fact the guy never showed his full power, especially in Battle of Gods or his short fight with Vegeta and the current saga where he didn't even sweat. I always go by the manga where I judge it by what was shown and said, there is no point in comparing Goku and Vegeta to the Gods because they are supposed to be the peak that our people want to climb, it wouldn't make sense if they wanted to match them if they were already stronger than them.

[Bridgeman]

I understand people's complaints when it comes to Bardock. That special, even though it's a Toei creation, is a lot older than Minus and everyone fucking loves it. Bardock is shown being a badass who kicks ass and doesn't afraid of anything. In Minus, he gets shafted a bit. In the Broly movie, he especially gets shafted, because in his final appearance his armor is broken, so he's clearly been fighting, but they didn't care enough to show us.

Personally I like the new Bardock. For some reason one of people's biggest complaints about him is that he cares deeply about his son. Which to me makes him more interesting as a character, rather than yet another Saiyan who only cares about fighting and has no room for emotions. That said, I'm not sure what the point of Minus was. It didn't add much to Goku's story, and it didn't add much to Bardock's, all it showed us was that Goku had a mom and they cared about him. Which is a gut punch anyway, especially Gine crying "Don't forget about us Kakarot", knowing that Goku did forget about his parents. I don't think he even ever learned anything about them, besides the fact that he must know he had biological parents, he has zero interest in finding out anything else.

Oh well. I like either version of Bardock. He's one of my favorite characters, but I must admit that's mostly because of the special; Minus simply didn't show us much.

[MasenkoHA]

Burdock and Gine being loving parents just feels at odds with Raditz being a piece of shit and Goku being a bad seed until he got amnesia and was raised by Grandpa Gohan.

Toriyama seemed intent to remove Goku’s earthly upbringing as defining him the further he goes and I’ve never been a fan.

He doesn’t love battle because he was raised as a martial artist by his grandpa. It’s in his genes!

He’s not a good person because grandpa Gohan raised
him that way his parents were good people!

Chi Chi isn’t some hillbilly he married because a promise is a promise even one you don’t understand, Saiyans are drawn to strong willed women!

[Bridgeman]

Burdock and Gine being loving parents just feels at odds with Raditz being a piece of shit and Goku being a bad seed until he got amnesia and was raised by Grandpa Gohan.

Toriyama seemed intent to remove Goku’s earthly upbringing as defining him the further he goes and I’ve never been a fan.

He doesn’t love battle because he was raised as a martial artist by his grandpa. It’s in his genes!

He’s not a good person because grandpa Gohan raised
him that way his parents were good people!

Chi Chi isn’t some hillbilly he married because a promise is a promise even one you don’t understand, Saiyans are drawn to strong willed women!

I mean... In all of these cases, both can be true. One doesn't contradict the other

[Grimlock]

1) It is not a story written by Toriyame, and it is, as it turned out according to mythic canon, a misinterpretation by the studio.

Hardly a "misinterpretation". There was nothing in the manga suggesting it was Bardock and Gine who sent Goku. The only thing the manga says is that Goku was a baby. Now, from what I observe, it seems there is a difference between cultures about that. Not everyone would call a (almost) three-year-old kid a "baby". Depending on what people say around you, the TV Special is the one that best fit what is actually said in the manga (save for that scene of Goku smiling after kicking Gohan).



Also, I would put a lot of emphasis on "mythic". As no canon has been established in Dragon Ball so far.

3) Toriyama liked the story of the former Bardock enough to write his story after so many years to be consistent with his manga.

The Bardock who resisted against Freeza is seen wearing a different outfit in Movie 1 when compared to the Bardock who resisted against Freeza in the manga. Unfortunately, no consistency to be found there. By the way, Planet Vegeta is red in the manga. Blue in the Dragon Ball Minus adaptation for Movie 1.

[WittyUsername]

The manga clearly states that Goku was sent to Earth to conquer it. That’s what Raditz tells Goku, and there was never any reason to assume that he was wrong or lying before Minus.

Also, I’m pretty sure the problem people have with Minus isn’t that it creates a plot hole or anything like that. It’s that it’s a weak story that takes what was an interesting backstory for the protagonist, and turns it into a Superman knockoff.

[MasenkoHA]

Also Raditz probably would have mentioned to Goku their parents sent him to earth.

[Alkiser]

1) It is not a story written by Toriyame, and it is, as it turned out according to mythic canon, a misinterpretation by the studio.

Hardly a "misinterpretation". There was nothing in the manga suggesting it was Bardock and Gine who sent Goku. The only thing the manga says is that Goku was a baby. Now, from what I observe, it seems there is a difference between cultures about that. Not everyone would call a (almost) three-year-old kid a "baby". Depending on what people say around you, the TV Special is the one that best fit what is actually said in the manga (save for that scene of Goku smiling after kicking Gohan).



Also, I would put a lot of emphasis on "mythic". As no canon has been established in Dragon Ball so far.

3) Toriyama liked the story of the former Bardock enough to write his story after so many years to be consistent with his manga.

The Bardock who resisted against Freeza is seen wearing a different outfit in Movie 1 when compared to the Bardock who resisted against Freeza in the manga. Unfortunately, no consistency to be found there. By the way, Planet Vegeta is red in the manga. Blue in the Dragon Ball Minus adaptation for Movie 1.

This could be considered Raditz's interpretation, in DBS:Broly he heard from his mother that they sent him to earth, he hardly suspected it was to protect him from Frieza's destruction, so the only logical assumption was that they sent him to conquer earth. For this reason he concluded that Kakarotto was to destroy the land, not live on it.

[WittyUsername]

It seems weird that Gine would tell Raditz that they sent his brother to Earth, but not the reason he was sent to Earth. Again though, it’s not technically a plot hole, but it is an unnecessary retcon.

[kyppk]

It seems weird that Gine would tell Raditz that they sent his brother to Earth, but not the reason he was sent to Earth. Again though, it’s not technically a plot hole, but it is an unnecessary retcon.

There's a lot of logical inconsistencies surrounding Gine telling Raditz where Goku is sent (if she is surprised that Bardock cares about Goku in the slightest then why would she think that Raditz would care where Goku was; especially since they tell him before Freeza is confirmed to be against the Sayians and could learn Goku was secretly sent off from Raditz or anyone he tells, if they both care about Goku then why don't they try to help Raditz escape; it's only pure luck he even survives since he was with Vegeta and Vegeta ignored the order to return, why even tell Raditz in the first place if they're secretly sending Goku away), but it's so that Raditz himself is consistent in knowing Goku's location in Z.

Now why jump through so many hoops instead of just having Raditz figure out Goku survived some other way is really anyone's guess. Raditz, or any surviving Saiyan in Vegeta's group, could have gone to Zuno and asked a really poorly worded question like "Is there a surviving Saiyan nearby since we need help with this mission." badda-bam they tell Raditz he has a brother nearby at earth, and he goes there and makes the same assumptions he does in Z.

[Alkiser]

It seems weird that Gine would tell Raditz that they sent his brother to Earth, but not the reason he was sent to Earth. Again though, it’s not technically a plot hole, but it is an unnecessary retcon.

There's a lot of logical inconsistencies surrounding Gine telling Raditz where Goku is sent (if she is surprised that Bardock cares about Goku in the slightest then why would she think that Raditz would care where Goku was; especially since they tell him before Freeza is confirmed to be against the Sayians and could learn Goku was secretly sent off from Raditz or anyone he tells, if they both care about Goku then why don't they try to help Raditz escape; it's only pure luck he even survives since he was with Vegeta and Vegeta ignored the order to return, why even tell Raditz in the first place if they're secretly sending Goku away), but it's so that Raditz himself is consistent in knowing Goku's location in Z.

Now why jump through so many hoops instead of just having Raditz figure out Goku survived some other way is really anyone's guess. Raditz, or any surviving Saiyan in Vegeta's group, could have gone to Zuno and asked a really poorly worded question like "Is there a surviving Saiyan nearby since we need help with this mission." badda-bam they tell Raditz he has a brother nearby at earth, and he goes there and makes the same assumptions he does in Z.

Logically why did he need Goku before Z?
He didn't need him, so he didn't ask for him, and he didn't care about him, he was just busy conquering planets and forgetting about the world, plus the saiyans don't recognize the family construct very much, so he didn't give a shit about him. It is known that he did not care about Kakarotto as a member of the family, and just wanted to use him, and force him to do it by kidnapping Gohan, he did not seek him before because why some glut should loiter under his feet when he did not need him.

[Alkiser]

It seems weird that Gine would tell Raditz that they sent his brother to Earth, but not the reason he was sent to Earth. Again though, it’s not technically a plot hole, but it is an unnecessary retcon.

There's a lot of logical inconsistencies surrounding Gine telling Raditz where Goku is sent (if she is surprised that Bardock cares about Goku in the slightest then why would she think that Raditz would care where Goku was; especially since they tell him before Freeza is confirmed to be against the Sayians and could learn Goku was secretly sent off from Raditz or anyone he tells, if they both care about Goku then why don't they try to help Raditz escape; it's only pure luck he even survives since he was with Vegeta and Vegeta ignored the order to return, why even tell Raditz in the first place if they're secretly sending Goku away), but it's so that Raditz himself is consistent in knowing Goku's location in Z.

Now why jump through so many hoops instead of just having Raditz figure out Goku survived some other way is really anyone's guess. Raditz, or any surviving Saiyan in Vegeta's group, could have gone to Zuno and asked a really poorly worded question like "Is there a surviving Saiyan nearby since we need help with this mission." badda-bam they tell Raditz he has a brother nearby at earth, and he goes there and makes the same assumptions he does in Z.

I also recall that Goku was so undeveloped at the time that he was in an incubator until he was 3 years old, so he was all the more useless so no one asked about him for a long time.