SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 pm
BWri wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:13 pm
It doesn't really work like that. Being the original grants the SSJ form ... originality.
This doesn't make sense.
So if Super Saiyan Blue was the original form you would say it's original? So shallow.
In a nutshell I'm just saying, its the first one so it deserves points for originality, especially since everything that comes after simply attempts to or just blatantly replicates it. It had nothing to pull from which by definition makes it original.
I'll try to elaborate better. SSJ came at a time when there weren't many similar sort of transformations. I'm talking within the story and outside of it in the medium. Between SSJ and Frieza's various forms, I have a gut feeling that these two is what brought prominence to the transforming hero and transforming villain trope we see proliferate so many combat manga these days. It's the same with the series. Most villains after Freeza focus on some sort of transforming gimmick with multiple steps until they reach a "final" form. And most forms after SSJ seem to try to hit similar notes.
Even if Toriyama-san was inspired by Saint Seiya's golden armor or something, it would still make SSJ more original than SSB since SSB is a direct copy of SSJ's design.
Super Saiyan is literally just Goku with blonde hair (thus a recolour).
The recolor criticism mainly came from SSB being a facsimile of SSJ except with blue hair. I don't remember SSG getting called a recolor, though I remember the criticism of that being that it was too similar to Kaioken.
But I would say that you are not entirely wrong, I think its disengenious to call SSJ a recolor of Goku's classic design (base form). The hair is another shape altogether, just look at that pic I posted above. And there is a clear change to Goku's bulk and demeanor. With that, there's no other form to compare it to at the time so it can't be a recolor.
If anything Super Saiyan God is way more detailed and original than Super Saiyan. Since it didn't simply change Goku's hair colour, but also toned down his muscles to give him a more regal feel.
I'd say they're about the same. Where SSG makes Goku lean, SSJ makes him more bulky. Where SSJ makes Goku fierce, SSG gives him a more childlike expression. Both change eye color, hair color, and aura. Out of all those things, I like SSG's aura better
I started as a critic of SSG like many other people, but over the years I see the potential of the form. I wish it were expanded upon moreso, instead of SSB. SSG has a natural design to it that I like. I just don't like how it looks plastic-y without the aura.
If Super Saiyan wasn't associated to the fight with Frieza and if it wasn't part of the "good old days" of nostalgia I guarantee you that people would be far more critical of it. Look at how many people are critical of those "damned recolours" from Super, even though they change so much more than just the hair colour.
The moments come part and parcel with the form itself. If it accomplishes cool stuff, we're going to treat it as cool. If it creates shock and awe, that moment sticks with it. After all these years, SSJ is the weakest form now but it still holds weight with the fans due to the moments it is associated with and a perceived Dragon Ball
golden age with most of us western fans. So you're probably right.
I will say that the SSJ design is much more natural than the SSB design. Blonde is a natural hair color so even without an explanation it just, kind of, works. But with Blue I'm always wondering, "What the hell makes their hair so damn blue?" Something about it takes me out of the story, moreso when it was first created. I don't have that problem with the manga ... but its black and white so .... yeah. But I think with Blue overall wouldn't have been so widely accepted because of that even if it were introduced first. IDK, the arua could have sold the form, but I still think there'd be some resistance compared to SSJ so I don't think it would've been as popular. That's my spicy take, I guess.
VegettoEX wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:55 am(yes, that's the exact file from the late 90s that I have saved all this time).
This clip's so old that my computer spat out a cloud of dust and started screeching as if I was starting up a dial up connection.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-
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