The Manga is no more canon than the anime right?

[Mister_Popo]

If Dragon Ball had a canon of "100% intended by the original author," it's the original manga. Everything that came after is based on that.
I do think it should be acceptable to refer to all versions of the main continuity that tie directly in that original timeline as 'canon' (in brackets) as a reference point for ease of discussion. I do not use the term 'canon' or 'main continuity' to express that it is better than the co-existing alternative continuities.

[miguelnuva1]

When I said canon I meant that we no the orginal Manga supersedes the orginal anime for example Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu in the manga and the strongest Buu in the anime.

With Super however while two different stories there is not one that supersedes the other. If Someone mentions something in the anime vs the manga neither party is wrong as with the kid buu situation we would say why did Toei change the stroy.

[Dragon Wukong]

If you consider canon as falling closer to the original manga's continuity, the DBS manga wins out on that, zero doubt.

[Mister_Popo]

Movie, anime an manga are just different versions of the same continuity that all tie in to the original story.
There is no version that ties in 'more' to he original story than another version.

[Dragon Wukong]

Movie, anime an manga are just different versions of the same continuity that all tie in to the original story.
There is no version that ties in 'more' to he original story than another version.

I mean,

Buuuuuut, and this is where one has to be careful with their wording to avoid making people mad, there are stricter definitions of "canonical" that one could tend toward the manga being canon to the original manga, and the anime not.

1. For one, the anime of Dragon Ball Super makes use of some minor plot points that only exist in the anime for Z, such as Bulma having been possessed by Ginyu. We know in the anime for DBS Goku trained with Gregory, because he exists on King Kai's world in that continuity.
2. Secondly, Toriyama has arguably more "direct" ties to with how the story is portrayed in the manga, editing dialogue and occasionally drawing entire pages. He's also confirmed to have co-written the current arc with Toyotaro.
3. Thirdly, there have been multiple instances where the anime deviated heavily from what we know was originally written or noted down by Toriyama.
   • Examples of this include Super Saiyan Goku Black, the final fight with Fused Zamasu being between Trunks and Fused Zamasu as opposed to Goku and Fused Zamasu, as well as the Potara's time limit having been originally been intended for Fused Zamasu, who it does not apply to in the anime, but does in the manga.
4. Minor references to geographical locations (Mount Paozu) or visual references aside (Vegeta's casual wear being his GT outfit), there hasn't been any actual contradictions to the manga of Dragon Ball or references to filler events that didn't happen prior on the page.
5. Lastly, you have Shueisha itself having referred to the manga for DBS several times as the canonical sequel (or whatever Japanese equivalent has been made note of by our dear founder) of the original manga.

Unless you're referring to the "original story" as DBZ in general, then yes, but otherwise the anime for DBS has several implications toward being a closer continuity to the anime of Z than the original manga, while the manga for DBS is closer to the original manga continuity. The anime for DBS contains too many elements that weren't in the original manga and references events that weren't ever suggested to have happened in it.

[Kataphrut]

I just remembered the reason why I never considered the manga canon: It's because it didn't have the tingly-back explanation for Super Saiyan.

Ok bear with me. We know from that one interview about the Broly movie that that explanation came from Toriyama- because of course it did - and in the manga that whole scene is skipped and it never comes up in the tournament. Therefore, the manga writer neglected the Word of God while the anime staff embraced it.

Ya can't skip something like that if you want to be the true successor to the series. It implies you're trying to treat the original source material 'with respect' and that's not what Dragon Ball is about. Dragon Ball is shameless.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Movie, anime an manga are just different versions of the same continuity that all tie in to the original story.
There is no version that ties in 'more' to he original story than another version.

Yeah pretty much this, it's just three different versions of the same story.

[Miracles]

And there is a reason two of those versions are based on Akira Toriyama's [authority/canon] plot outlines. Hence why Akira Toriyama's movies [written by him] are the standard for Super.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

but now that it's ended I think the manga is the main thing. I bet the anime will probably just adapt the manga like most animes do when/if it comes back.

'I think it's the case" and 'i prefer ...' are only thoughts and preferences, no valid arguments for debate.
I haven't read any senseful arguments from people who made a choice in this matter (x is more canon than y) that go beyond thoughts or preferences.

Any piece of evidence will always be filtered by the words of those presenting it. If I say "I think the world is round" does that mean I'm not speaking a fact?

[ZodaEX]

If you consider canon as falling closer to the original manga's continuity, the DBS manga wins out on that, zero doubt.

That's not what canon is.

[PurestEvil]

If you consider canon as falling closer to the original manga's continuity, the DBS manga wins out on that, zero doubt.

That's not what canon is.

He said “If you consider [it to be] canon”.
What do YOU consider canon?

[Shintoki]

And there is a reason two of those versions are based on Akira Toriyama's [authority/canon] plot outlines. Hence why Akira Toriyama's movies [written by him] are the standard for Super.

100%. i keep seeing tons of people arguing over the tv series vs the manga but rarely does anyone bring up the movies. which imo are the standard for this saga. ultimately, i think the thread has reached its natural conclusion.

DBS manga is closer to the OG manga
DBS tv anime is closer to the DBZ tv anime rather than the former

the movies however, are 100% the closest imo. thus it goes like this for me canonically speaking

movies > manga > tv series

[ZodaEX]

If you consider canon as falling closer to the original manga's continuity, the DBS manga wins out on that, zero doubt.

That's not what canon is.

He said “If you consider [it to be] canon”.
What do YOU consider canon?

My point is that it doesn't matter what a fan thinks is canon because Dragon Ball doesn't have a canon.

[capsulecorp]

A better dichotomy, instead of "canon" vs "non-canon", is "Toriyama" vs "Toei".

[PurestEvil]

A better dichotomy, instead of "canon" vs "non-canon", is "Toriyama" vs "Toei".

You know what, that is an ingenious idea.

[Jack Bz]

My uncle actually works at Toriyama and said that only the manga is canon, and also that everything that happens after Goku kamehamehas the top half of Cell to smithereens is Cell's dying fever dream

[SupremeKai25]

My uncle actually works at Toriyama and said that only the manga is canon, and also that everything that happens after Goku kamehamehas the top half of Cell to smithereens is Cell's dying fever dream

Honestly that explains why Gohan has become such a useless fodder, naturally Cell would dream about his killer becoming a useless civilian

[kemuri07]

I think this is kind of the real reason why End of Z will never get retcon--because you don't have to actually decide which adaptation is canon. Do I personally care? Nah, not really (though if the anime just fucked off out of existence I'd be cool with it), but there's probably a bunch of people who would be audibly pissed if Toei via one of these movies sided with specific events that happened in the manga and vice versia.

The 10 year gap can be home to whatever damn project they decide to do.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

As far as I can tell the Super Manga is "canon" to the original manga. My two cents is manga timeline follows the manga, anime timeline follows the Toei anime.
Toriyama said that the movies he penned are "canon" to his original manga so you have to make some assumptions, but my best guess is Toriyama canon = original manga, BOG movie, RF movie, Super Manga, Broly movie, Super Super Hero movie.

[Sani007]

Toriyama canon = original manga, BOG movie, RF movie, Super Manga, Broly movie, Super Super Hero movie.

And Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga.