Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

[Shaddy]

I wasn't trying to imply that it was all sweet and rosy, It's stand up comedy, of course its going to sting a little, especially considering who's performing alls I was just saying was that folks should watch it first before passing judgement to understand the full context.

Unless the end of the special is "actually, every single horrible thing I just said was a complete lie and if you don't think I'm a piece of shit for saying it then you should critically re-examine every core belief you claim to hold", then there's no context that would change how it should be perceived.

[JulieYBM]

I wasn't trying to imply that it was all sweet and rosy, It's stand up comedy, of course its going to sting a little, especially considering who's performing alls I was just saying was that folks should watch it first before passing judgement to understand the full context.

Unless the end of the special is "actually, every single horrible thing I just said was a complete lie and if you don't think I'm a piece of shit for saying it then you should critically re-examine every core belief you claim to hold", then there's no context that would change how it should be perceived.

Why yes, this.

I really don't need the surgeries I need to save my life being mocked by a rich cishet guy who was so rich he could fuck off for ten years to(rightfully!) Take care of his own health.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

I haven’t watched Dave Chappelle’s special (comedians in general aren’t really my thing), so I’m not going to talk about it as though I have seen it, but I do think it’s weird how certain people keep trying to pass off the right to make offensive jokes as a free speech thing. Freedom of speech means that the government can’t arrest you for what you say. It doesn’t mean that people don’t have a right to criticize you for saying things they find offensive, or that private corporations like Disney can’t fire you for what you say (which was what happened with Gina Carano).

People need to stop using ‘freedom of speech’ as a crutch. Unless there are genuine demands for people like Dave Chappelle or Gina Carano to be arrested, freedom of speech is not applicable to their situations.

People have the right to make offensive jokes without being arrested, and people have to right to criticize jokes they perceive to be offensive. I'm totally on the same page with you here. The people who cry "snowflake" or "people are too sensitive nowadays" are ironically also being sensitive to the criticism they're getting for their words/actions.

[goku the krump dancer]

I wasn't trying to imply that it was all sweet and rosy, It's stand up comedy, of course its going to sting a little, especially considering who's performing alls I was just saying was that folks should watch it first before passing judgement to understand the full context.

Unless the end of the special is "actually, every single horrible thing I just said was a complete lie and if you don't think I'm a piece of shit for saying it then you should critically re-examine every core belief you claim to hold", then there's no context that would change how it should be perceived.

Why yes, this.

I really don't need the surgeries I need to save my life being mocked by a rich cishet guy who was so rich he could fuck off for ten years to(rightfully!) Take care of his own health.

That's incredibly disingenuous from the two of you but I mean, if y'all aren't trying to have the conversation, that's cool too, I dont mind saving the energy. Though I have to wonder, why bring it up in the first place.

[Shaddy]

Unless there's some big hoax or lie about what the special entails, or we've somehow misunderstood that everyone accidentally left out the part where suddenly he takes back every shitty thing he said, then saying it is still wrong. If anything, what's disingenuous is saying anyone who takes issue with it is somehow missing the meaning or has been lied to. But I think you know as well as anyone else what the effect and public perception of this dude's commentary is, and unless you have some meaningful in-text example of what part of the other person's assessment is actually incorrect, you're the one shutting down discussion by saying someone's opinion is illegitimate without subjecting themselves to hours of nasty horseshit. I don't need to watch Birth of a Nation to know it's racist.

[Misu]

Unless there's some big hoax or lie about what the special entails, or we've somehow misunderstood that everyone accidentally left out the part where suddenly he takes back every shitty thing he said, then saying it is still wrong. If anything, what's disingenuous is saying anyone who takes issue with it is somehow missing the meaning or has been lied to. But I think you know as well as anyone else what the effect and public perception of this dude's commentary is, and unless you have some meaningful in-text example of what part of the other person's assessment is actually incorrect, you're the one shutting down discussion by saying someone's opinion is illegitimate without subjecting themselves to hours of nasty horseshit. I don't need to watch Birth of a Nation to know it's racist.

I know the jokes are offensive and Dave should be called out but is it really worth protesting over?

[Shaddy]

I'm just making posts on a site. If you're talking about the Netflix walkout, that's not only because of the nasty shit he said (and frankly would be justified anyway) but also because Netflix has taken to silencing and firing workers critical of this special, doubling down on at best caring more about the money he makes them than anything else, and at worst actively intentionally reinforcing his shitty message.

[JulieYBM]

Unless there's some big hoax or lie about what the special entails, or we've somehow misunderstood that everyone accidentally left out the part where suddenly he takes back every shitty thing he said, then saying it is still wrong. If anything, what's disingenuous is saying anyone who takes issue with it is somehow missing the meaning or has been lied to. But I think you know as well as anyone else what the effect and public perception of this dude's commentary is, and unless you have some meaningful in-text example of what part of the other person's assessment is actually incorrect, you're the one shutting down discussion by saying someone's opinion is illegitimate without subjecting themselves to hours of nasty horseshit. I don't need to watch Birth of a Nation to know it's racist.

I know the jokes are offensive and Dave should be called out but is it really worth protesting over?

He's loudly spreading misinformation about an entire group of people. Loudly countering that is only natural, especially considering all of the legislation that is being cooked up against said group of people.

I'd like to be able to not be murdered the next time I travel out of state to visit friends, y'know.

[goku the krump dancer]

@Shaddy A person doesnt have to have sex to know that it feels good, but they do have to engage in it to fully understand why. The fact that you felt brazen enough to compare Chappelle's Specials to Birth of Nation just goes to show that you should go watch both so you can understand why that was dead wrong. I don't have to write a 5 page thesis defending Dave if you're already coming into the discussion with your fingers in your ears because he said "Terf".

@Julie

I promise you, all straight guys are worried about when it comes to transwomen is being duped when they go out to a bar or nightclub. No one is secretly forming a militia to go out a purge the world of trans people because Chapelle made a joke comparing a Post Op Va Jay Jay to a goddamn Impossible Burger. People aren't worried about you nearly as much as you think they are and that's just in general.

[kemuri07]

@Shaddy A person doesnt have to have sex to know that it feels good, but they do have to engage in it to fully understand why. The fact that you felt brazen enough to compare Chappelle's Specials to Birth of Nation just goes to show that you should go watch both so you can understand why that was dead wrong. I don't have to write a 5 page thesis defending Dave if you're already coming into the discussion with your fingers in your ears because he said "Terf".

@Julie

I promise you, all straight guys are worried about when it comes to transwomen is being duped when they go out to a bar or nightclub. No one is secretly forming a militia to go out a purge the world of trans people because Chapelle made a joke comparing a Post Op Va Jay Jay to a goddamn Impossible Burger. People aren't worried about you nearly as much as you think they are and that's just in general.

I don't think you can make that call...unless you consider yourself the ambassador of all things straight. Your point is also extremely reductive of the present issue at hand: No one here is saying that Dave Chapelle is directly responsible for people attacking trans people. What we are saying is that Chapelle is an influencial voice that absolutely can add to the already toxic attitudes towards transgender individuals. Basically its embolden people that it is okay to mock transgendered individuals; that goes a long way towards dehumanizing transgendered individuals, that absolutely can lead to violence.

Telling people that what they see and hear isn't really true and that they're the ones that are paronoid--that's what we call gaslighting. No different how whites try to tell Black people that "actually we're the ones who are racist because we keep talking about it. It can't be real if I (somone who benefits from a society that privileges whiteness) don't see it!"


Ultimately the point is to let people who the jokes are clearly targeted towards to have a say about, you know, how someone decides to define them, instead of just dismissing them outright. Remember--free speech cuts both ways. And Chapelle shouldn't be defended simply because he's made funny jokes in the past.

[Adamant]

I'm just making posts on a site. If you're talking about the Netflix walkout, that's not only because of the nasty shit he said (and frankly would be justified anyway) but also because Netflix has taken to silencing and firing workers critical of this special, doubling down on at best caring more about the money he makes them than anything else, and at worst actively intentionally reinforcing his shitty message.

Yeeeeah if you go up to your boss and say "either you do as I say or I quit" you're running the chance of your boss' reply being "bye". Companies aren't obligated to drop products because a handful of employees are criitical of them, and clearly Netflix valued this special over these employees.

That's life yo.

[KingVegetto]

I encourage anyone to actually watch the special before passing any judgment, its honestly not nearly as bad as the folks who are "outraged" are trying to claim.

Here's the thing.."welll I didn't think it was that bad" doesn't dismiss the possibility that its offensive, especially if you're not looking at it from the perspective of the offended community. Here's the reality, I"m a straight black male and I more than acknowledge that I have blind sides when it comes to LBGTQ. So I ain't the best judge of character of what is or isn't offensive. Also saying something isn't "nearly as bad" implies that it's still bad so......

Look, if you enjoy the special, its your prerogative. You're not a homophobe for liking it and there are parts are funny. I'm not going to dismiss that. But I'm not going to dismiss people who the intended jokes are targeted at, or generalize them as being hysterical. You can like the special and also acknowledge that "yeah, this is kind of fucked up."

I can see why some had issues with the special, but I don't personally believe it crosses the line into punching down(which Dave did address, saying that for him to be "punching down" would require him to think of someone as "less then human" and he does not see trans people that way) or outright hate speech myself(a lot of people are making a big deal about the whole "TERF" thing, but most people don't even realize what that term actually means, to do that requires an understanding of a very specific type of British feminism which a lot of Americans aren't familiar with, and i'm sure Dave himself does not actually know what that term means as he's not really one for social media, I think he just said it cause he knew it would get a reaction out of people, and if you're not familiar with say the kinds of people Rowling likes and RTs on social media, then from the outside the backlash against her kind of does sound a bit overblown, I know the real truth about why trans people don't like her, but many don't, hell most people don't even know there is a backlash against her). I enjoyed it but i'll admit it's not as good as Dave's previous specials as he comes off as a bit too defensive here and sounds less confident then he usually does, so I didn't laugh nearly as much as I usually do at his material. It's probably for the best that he's said he won't do anymore LGBTQ jokes for the foreseeable future.

Anyways I found this great Medium piece about the discourse by a black woman which I very much agree with:https://zora.medium.com/what-youre-miss ... 5a180ed2d8

Also I don't believe Netflix fired anyone just for speaking about The Closer, that's getting a little bit too much into tinfoil-hat territory for my liking. If that was true you'd think they would've fired everyone who worked there that complained about the special and not just a few people.

Also I don't believe anyone is going to go out and harass trans people just because they saw Dave make some jokes, IMO that's a Jack Thompson line of thinking I don't agree with one bit. Not saying comedy can't affect people, but I don't believe it can affect them to that degree(at least not to the same degree that say actual news reports do, like the frequent anti-trans news reports you see in the UK on the BBC and Sky all the time) Nobody is going to suddenly become hateful just by watching a comedian make some jokes.

Plus in the special Dave talks about a trans comedienne that he was close friends with in real life-Daphne Dorman(whose family put out a statement supporting Dave), he invited her to open up for him and even though her set didn't go well she didn't let that get to her, some guy made a hateful comment to her and she made a snappy comeback and the crowd was cheering for her. Unfortunately a few days after Sticks and Stones was released she took her own life, before that she'd been on social defending Dave and some so-called "progressives" were sending her all kinds of hateful messages online just because she was friends with Dave. Some wonder if those comments were what drove her to suicide, Dave himself said he couldn't say for sure if she killed herself because of those comments but did say they "certainly didn't help" and at the end he did a genuinely touching bit about how he's set up a trust fund for her daughter. If Dave truly didn't like trans people he never would've done something like that, anyone that compares him to Ben Shapiro(this isn't directed at anyone on this forum, just in general to comments i've seen on social media)is quite frankly a fucking moron.

[JulieYBM]

An influential comedian using their platform to spread lies and bigotry about an entire group of people--something influential people have been doing forever--does not help and indeed only contributes to said lies and bigotry about said people. The Closer is just another in a long line of shitting on trans people that will not just hurt trans people who view it but also hurt those that don't personally know trans people. We're relatively still in the closet compared to cis gay men and cis lesbians, not everyone knows a trans person or knows enough trams people to understand the variety we can fall under. It's important to criticize people who use their platform to spread hate and lies and de-platform them so that we don't wind up with more murders by physical violence or legislature or withholding of medical treatment.

We need to use our platforms to create a society that is accepting of marginalized people, like trans people, not ridicule and punch down on them.

[KingVegetto]

Not saying Dave isn't above criticism, I just don't believe that he actually hates trans people like say actual TERFs(I.E. Graham Lineham) do.

Dave responded to the accusations and I think it was interesting that he stressed for people upset to not blame the LGBTQ community as it was about corporate interests:https://variety.com/2021/film/news/dave ... 235097068/

Personally I think the film festivals are overreacting big time over pulling his documentary over this, not to mention being massively hypocritical as plenty of those same film festivals had no problems whatsoever screening Roman Polanski's films despite him committing an actual crime(sexual assault of a minor for those who don't know) decades ago, so for them to suddenly decide that now they have morals just feels so fake to me.

[MyVisionity]

I can see why some had issues with the special, but I don't personally believe it crosses the line into punching down(which Dave did address, saying that for him to be "punching down" would require him to think of someone as "less then human" and he does not see trans people that way)

Well then Dave's wrong. You don't have to think of people as sub-human in order to hate or oppress them.

Many of the White Evangelicals and Enlightenment-era abolitionists decried the Slave Trade for being dehumanizing and evil, and yet still viewed Blackness and people of African descent as being inferior.

If Dave truly didn't like trans people he never would've done something like that,

Just because you have a trans friend does not mean you like trans people.

And just because you like trans people does not mean you aren't a bigot.

[KingVegetto]

I can see why some had issues with the special, but I don't personally believe it crosses the line into punching down(which Dave did address, saying that for him to be "punching down" would require him to think of someone as "less then human" and he does not see trans people that way)

Well then Dave's wrong. You don't have to think of people as sub-human in order to hate or oppress them.

Many of the White Evangelicals and Enlightenment-era abolitionists decried the Slave Trade for being dehumanizing and evil, and yet still viewed Blackness and people of African descent as being inferior.

If Dave truly didn't like trans people he never would've done something like that,

Just because you have a trans friend does not mean you like trans people.

And just because you like trans people does not mean you aren't a bigot.

I don't think Dave was hating or oppressing anybody personally and I don't get the sense that he hates trans people a tall.

I don't really see how that comparison to slavery makes any sense.

[Shaddy]

@Shaddy A person doesnt have to have sex to know that it feels good, but they do have to engage in it to fully understand why.

Ah, but I'm not trying to deconstruct why Chappelle is being a piece of shit. It's just obvious that he is.

The fact that you felt brazen enough to compare Chappelle's Specials to Birth of Nation just goes to show that you should go watch both so you can understand why that was dead wrong. I don't have to write a 5 page thesis defending Dave if you're already coming into the discussion with your fingers in your ears because he said "Terf".

If you have a problem with me correctly identifying a transphobe as a transphobe, it's your job to construct a meaningful argument against that. Surely if it's so obvious that he wasn't saying the things he was obviously saying you should have an easy job proving it, right? Maybe you didn't watch the special. Otherwise, you'd be able to tell me what part of it would contradict my assessment.

But let's be honest here. If I did watch the special and it didn't change my mind, that wouldn't change a god damn thing, you would simply invent some new way to not have to listen to anything I'm saying.

I promise you, all straight guys are worried about when it comes to transwomen is being duped when they go out to a bar or nightclub.

"Being duped", huh. Yeah, nothing suspicious or degrading about that language at all. Yet shockingly, I, a straight person, never have this fear. Almost like it's constructed to say something without saying it out loud.

No one is secretly forming a militia to go out a purge the world of trans people

Yeah, because they have the regular government to do that for them already. You know how trans people are treated by police?

Yeeeeah if you go up to your boss and say "either you do as I say or I quit" you're running the chance of your boss' reply being "bye". Companies aren't obligated to drop products because a handful of employees are criitical of them, and clearly Netflix valued this special over these employees.

That's life yo.

Even if I agree that "that's life" (it isn't, there are plenty of ways to prevent this), they're still massive pieces of shit and I am entirely in my right to point that out.

a lot of people are making a big deal about the whole "TERF" thing, but most people don't even realize what that term actually means, to do that requires an understanding of a very specific type of British feminism which a lot of Americans aren't familiar with

This is such an absolutely heinous take I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose. Literally everyone knows that "TERF" stands for "Trans exclusionary radical feminist", and almost everyone else knows that it's a political euphemism to brand trans hatred as progressive, rather than the neoreactionary garbage we've always had to deal with.

and i'm sure Dave himself does not actually know what that term means as he's not really one for social media, I think he just said it cause he knew it would get a reaction out of people

Plenty of people do shitty things "just to get a reaction out of people", and guess what? That doesn't make them not shitty.

Anyways I found this great Medium piece about the discourse by a black woman which I very much agree with:https://zora.medium.com/what-youre-miss ... 5a180ed2d8

This is the same "it's not homophobia if you aren't literally cowering in fear" horseshit defenders of this crap always give. There is no justification here.

Also I don't believe Netflix fired anyone just for speaking about The Closer, that's getting a little bit too much into tinfoil-hat territory for my liking. If that was true you'd think they would've fired everyone who worked there that complained about the special and not just a few people.

This is just disingenuous. They fired the person who got a lot of traction online for posting because they complained. They literally fabricated a story about them being fired for showing up to a meeting uninvited, then had to retract that and rehire them because they literally proved they were invited. It's not some wacky coincidence, they are harming actual trans people to defend a transphobic shithead.

Also I don't believe anyone is going to go out and harass trans people just because they saw Dave make some jokes, IMO that's a Jack Thompson line of thinking I don't agree with one bit. Not saying comedy can't affect people, but I don't believe it can affect them to that degree(at least not to the same degree that say actual news reports do, like the frequent anti-trans news reports you see in the UK on the BBC and Sky all the time) Nobody is going to suddenly become hateful just by watching a comedian make some jokes.

But nobody is saying it makes people "suddenly become hateful", it strengthens and emboldens people who already are and reinforces that behavior. If I actually had watched Birth of a Nation, I wouldn't suddenly want to join the KKK, but there's a reason we don't just show it off on TV networks or whatever anymore.

[Aim]

I promise you, all straight guys are worried about when it comes to transwomen is being duped when they go out to a bar or nightclub.

I promise you, all straight guys are extremely worried about being perceived as “gay”, to the point they will murder if it’s found out they slept with someone with a penis.

That said Dave Chapelle literally made an argument that you could once criticise white people until this whole “gender” thing came along, this is so disingenuous, you need to actually analyse the entire show, not just parts you don’t personally take offence to. Also, Dave has some spite towards the LGBT community for them making progress in society. He’s such a hypocrite that talks about being for trans people, then claims to be team TERF.

[goku the krump dancer]

I'm not trying to stop anyone from having an opinion, you're 100% free to like or dislike whatever you want. All I said was watch it first to gain the full context. Imagine trying to talk about Dragon Ball with someone who refuses to watch it yet claims vehemently that its trash for whatever reason, its a waste of time. Then again suppose said person ended up reading or watching and still disliking it , then they just aren't a fan and that's cool too but at least a more worthwhile discussion can be had and maybe even some middle ground can be established. I'm not here wearing a tinfoil hat.

When I made my comment about dudes being "worried" i'm not implying that we wake up in cold sweats at the thought of making out with a transwoman, that's ridiculous. Nor am I trying to be the self appointed voice for all men, of course not but everyone is allowed to draw the line where they choose when it comes to their private life or am I missing something.

Some Transwomen do weaponize their dating life to blackmail certain guys, they dont deserve to die for it but its still not cool nor does it help in trying to break any stigmas.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm not trying to stop anyone from having an opinion, you're 100% free to like or dislike whatever you want. All I said was watch it first to gain the full context. Imagine trying to talk about Dragon Ball with someone who refuses to watch it yet claims vehemently that its trash for whatever reason, its a waste of time. Then again suppose said person ended up reading or watching and still disliking it , then they just aren't a fan and that's cool too but at least a more worthwhile discussion can be had and maybe even some middle ground can be established. I'm not here wearing a tinfoil hat.

When I made my comment about dudes being "worried" i'm not implying that we wake up in cold sweats at the thought of making out with a transwoman, that's ridiculous. Nor am I trying to be the self appointed voice for all men, of course not but everyone is allowed to draw the line where they choose when it comes to their private life or am I missing something.

Some Transwomen do weaponize their dating life to blackmail certain guys, they dont deserve to die for it but its still not cool nor does it help in trying to break any stigmas.

GOD! THE AWFUL! It burnsssssssssssssssssssssssss!