Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

[KingVegetto]

@Shaddy A person doesnt have to have sex to know that it feels good, but they do have to engage in it to fully understand why.

Ah, but I'm not trying to deconstruct why Chappelle is being a piece of shit. It's just obvious that he is.

The fact that you felt brazen enough to compare Chappelle's Specials to Birth of Nation just goes to show that you should go watch both so you can understand why that was dead wrong. I don't have to write a 5 page thesis defending Dave if you're already coming into the discussion with your fingers in your ears because he said "Terf".

If you have a problem with me correctly identifying a transphobe as a transphobe, it's your job to construct a meaningful argument against that. Surely if it's so obvious that he wasn't saying the things he was obviously saying you should have an easy job proving it, right? Maybe you didn't watch the special. Otherwise, you'd be able to tell me what part of it would contradict my assessment.

But let's be honest here. If I did watch the special and it didn't change my mind, that wouldn't change a god damn thing, you would simply invent some new way to not have to listen to anything I'm saying.

I promise you, all straight guys are worried about when it comes to transwomen is being duped when they go out to a bar or nightclub.

"Being duped", huh. Yeah, nothing suspicious or degrading about that language at all. Yet shockingly, I, a straight person, never have this fear. Almost like it's constructed to say something without saying it out loud.

No one is secretly forming a militia to go out a purge the world of trans people

Yeah, because they have the regular government to do that for them already. You know how trans people are treated by police?

Yeeeeah if you go up to your boss and say "either you do as I say or I quit" you're running the chance of your boss' reply being "bye". Companies aren't obligated to drop products because a handful of employees are criitical of them, and clearly Netflix valued this special over these employees.

That's life yo.

Even if I agree that "that's life" (it isn't, there are plenty of ways to prevent this), they're still massive pieces of shit and I am entirely in my right to point that out.

a lot of people are making a big deal about the whole "TERF" thing, but most people don't even realize what that term actually means, to do that requires an understanding of a very specific type of British feminism which a lot of Americans aren't familiar with

This is such an absolutely heinous take I'm not sure if you're doing it on purpose. Literally everyone knows that "TERF" stands for "Trans exclusionary radical feminist", and almost everyone else knows that it's a political euphemism to brand trans hatred as progressive, rather than the neoreactionary garbage we've always had to deal with.

and i'm sure Dave himself does not actually know what that term means as he's not really one for social media, I think he just said it cause he knew it would get a reaction out of people

Plenty of people do shitty things "just to get a reaction out of people", and guess what? That doesn't make them not shitty.

Anyways I found this great Medium piece about the discourse by a black woman which I very much agree with:https://zora.medium.com/what-youre-miss ... 5a180ed2d8

This is the same "it's not homophobia if you aren't literally cowering in fear" horseshit defenders of this crap always give. There is no justification here.

Also I don't believe Netflix fired anyone just for speaking about The Closer, that's getting a little bit too much into tinfoil-hat territory for my liking. If that was true you'd think they would've fired everyone who worked there that complained about the special and not just a few people.

This is just disingenuous. They fired the person who got a lot of traction online for posting because they complained. They literally fabricated a story about them being fired for showing up to a meeting uninvited, then had to retract that and rehire them because they literally proved they were invited. It's not some wacky coincidence, they are harming actual trans people to defend a transphobic shithead.

Also I don't believe anyone is going to go out and harass trans people just because they saw Dave make some jokes, IMO that's a Jack Thompson line of thinking I don't agree with one bit. Not saying comedy can't affect people, but I don't believe it can affect them to that degree(at least not to the same degree that say actual news reports do, like the frequent anti-trans news reports you see in the UK on the BBC and Sky all the time) Nobody is going to suddenly become hateful just by watching a comedian make some jokes.

But nobody is saying it makes people "suddenly become hateful", it strengthens and emboldens people who already are and reinforces that behavior. If I actually had watched Birth of a Nation, I wouldn't suddenly want to join the KKK, but there's a reason we don't just show it off on TV networks or whatever anymore.

No not "literally everyone" knows that, jeez talk about engaging in hyperbole . I really don't see what's so "heinous" about me merely pointing out that it's a term that not everyone knows what it really means. I think your post is far more "heinous" as you're just wildly lashing out and attacking anyone that does agree with you, which isn't really making you look very good frankly

Not every person spends every waking minute on social media and even those that do don't know what EVERY single term means, you have to look outside of your own bubble and realize there's loads of people that don't have a fucking clue what "TERF" actually means, I highly doubt Dave knows much about British feminism.

Comparing Dave's special to Birth of a Nation makes no sense to me at all as I don't believe it does strengthen and embolden bigots, especially considering Dave went out of his way to denounce NC's anti-trans bathroom bill in his special. Nobody is going to be emboldened by that, unless you can prove with actual studies that someone say assaulted or harassed a trans woman solely because they watched a Dave Chappelle special, I ain't buying it.

There's nothing remotely "disingeous" about pointing out that nobody was fired just for speaking out against Dave, that's just a nonsensical conspiracy theory. If that was true, the logical thing would to be fire EVERYONE that spoke out to send a message, just firing one person though suggests they had other problems completely unrelated to this. At any rate you don't work at Netflix so you have no way of knowing with 100% certainty that they were fired just for speaking out, sorry but i'm not convinced.

Dave is not a "Transphobic shithead" just cause a few people say so.

The fact that you a white man are dismissing a post by a black woman isn't making you come off particularly well I must say You've greatly oversimplified what Zora actually said, now that's what I call "disingenuous"

BTW Daphne Dorman's family backed up Dave:https://www.thedailybeast.com/dave-chap ... the-closer

You really want to argue with them and call them terrible people for supporting Dave? Go right ahead, that'll be entertaining

[KingVegetto]

Well then Dave's wrong. You don't have to think of people as sub-human in order to hate or oppress them.

Many of the White Evangelicals and Enlightenment-era abolitionists decried the Slave Trade for being dehumanizing and evil, and yet still viewed Blackness and people of African descent as being inferior.




Just because you have a trans friend does not mean you like trans people.

And just because you like trans people does not mean you aren't a bigot.

I don't think Dave was hating or oppressing anybody personally and I don't get the sense that he hates trans people a tall.

I don't really see how that comparison to slavery makes any sense.

you know what they say about good intentions...

More importantly, you don't have to hate someone to spread toxic beliefs. I.E. your next door neighbor might be nice to the little black children that walks by her home, but also generally believes that black culture is "lower than" and more violent because that's what she grew up believing. And that belief absolutely can warp into problematic actions including hate. The problem with requiring "hate" as your baseline, is that it makes it almost impossible to actually determine what that discrimination is.

Ever hear of The Southern Strategy? It'd be in your best interest to actually look this stuff up (seriously, like holy crap some of y'all need to put down the anime and do some reading).

Do I think that Dave is a frothing homophobe? Nah. But does he have to be to be problematic? Nope. It's more complex than that, and that's what we're trying to get at.

Dave isn't like that to trans people in real life for no reason though, just when they personally harass him when he's trying to mind his own business. I'm fine with say politicians like Sinema getting harassed as their decisions have a lot of impact, but harassing a comedian for some jokes just seems over-the-top to me.

I'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all. In the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic:https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... tter-fades

It doesn't really matter if this Chappelle fella hates trans or not, that's shifting the focus, if his material is poisonous, he can love'em all he wants, have as many trans friends as he likes, yet he is still harming their cause with his work. And that's what matters.

What he believes is anecdotal next to what he DOES.

You can't really prove factually that his material did harm someone though. This isn't like promoting anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories about COVID, it's just Dave airing out his own complicated opinions.

[Shaddy]

No not "literally everyone" knows that, jeez talk about engaging in hyperbole . I really don't see what's so "heinous" about me merely pointing out that it's a term that not everyone knows what it really means.

If you know it's hyperbole, why are you getting upset anyway? There is no meaningful group of people frequently using the word "TERF" that does not understand what it means. Other than you, I guess.

I think your post is far more "heinous" as you're just wildly lashing out and attacking anyone that does agree with you, which isn't really making you look very good frankly

No, actually, the person playing apologist for transphobic rhetoric is worse. You aren't entitled to others' courtesy and politeness if you're going to be an asshole.

Not every person spends every waking minute on social media and even those that do don't know what EVERY single term means, you have to look outside of your own bubble and realize there's loads of people that don't have a fucking clue what "TERF" actually means, I highly doubt Dave knows much about British feminism.

Because "TERF" doesn't mean "British feminist", it means "transphobe who calls themself feminist". Plenty of them are not British, and zero of them are feminists.

Comparing Dave's special to Birth of a Nation makes no sense to me at all as I don't believe it does strengthen and embolden bigots,

Well, sorry you believe obviously-false things, I guess? I don't really care what "makes sense to you".

especially considering Dave went out of his way to denounce NC's anti-trans bathroom bill in his special.

You realize it's not a points system, right? Like, if I feed (9) homeless people, that doesn't give me the right to punch (1) homeless person.

Nobody is going to be emboldened by that, unless you can prove with actual studies that someone say assaulted or harassed a trans woman solely because they watched a Dave Chappelle special, I ain't buying it.

You aren't buying it either way. Exhibit A:

There's nothing remotely "disingeous" about pointing out that nobody was fired just for speaking out against Dave, that's just a nonsensical conspiracy theory.

The reason they came up with to say they fired her for literally was proven to be a lie. I could make it clearer and talk about each person they have fired individually, but you do not care.

If that was true, the logical thing would to be fire EVERYONE that spoke out to send a message, just firing one person though suggests they had other problems completely unrelated to this.

They HAVE fired other people, not that you bothered to check. But even if they didn't, you're wrong, because the first person got much more public attention than the others, which separates their effect from those who did so in a lesser way or on different platforms.

At any rate you don't work at Netflix so you have no way of knowing with 100% certainty that they were fired just for speaking out, sorry but i'm not convinced.

Well duh, nobody is trying to convince you. If you wanted them to do that, you'd have to give some indication that you were arguing in good faith and weren't completely full of shit. I'm mostly here to make sure none of the lies or misinformation you spew go unchallenged.

Dave is not a "Transphobic shithead" just cause a few people say so.

That's true! Common mistake. He's a transphobic shithead because he professed and believes a bunch of transphobic shithead beliefs.

The fact that you a white man are dismissing a post by a black woman isn't making you come off particularly well I must say You've greatly oversimplified what Zora actually said, now that's what I call "disingenuous"

You're a cis person trying to brand what a whole bunch of trans people of varying races are saying as racist for legitimate criticizism of a rich comedian. I don't care what minorities you try to hide behind, bad things aren't suddenly good just because a black person says them. I don't give Ricky Gervais a pass when he pulls this shit either.

But it sure makes YOU look racist, since branding opposition to transphobia as anti-black would mean you think black people are innately transphobic.

BTW Daphne Dorman's family backed up Dave:https://www.thedailybeast.com/dave-chap ... the-closer

You really want to argue with them and call them terrible people for supporting Dave? Go right ahead, that'll be entertaining

I don't need to treat you like your shit opinion is valid just because you hide behind a dead woman to bolster it, just like I don't when conservatives use Candace Owens, Blaire White or Milo Yiannopolous to pretend they're not racist, homophobic or transphobic.

Dave isn't like that to trans people in real life for no reason though, just when they personally harass him when he's trying to mind his own business.

"It's okay to be transphobic if a trans person is mean to you"

I'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all.

And we're just being honest about his "honest feelings" being a load of hateful bullshit, but for some inexplicable reason, that gets you mad when the bullshit itself doesn't.

In the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic:https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... tter-fades

And so the natural response to this is to attack LGBT people? Gee, that sure sounds like a guy we should be listening to. One who treats human rights as a finite resource only certain people deserve.

You can't really prove factually that his material did harm someone though. This isn't like promoting anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories about COVID, it's just Dave airing out his own complicated opinions.

Actually, it's quite a bit like anti-vax conspiracies. Those are also "just complicated opinions", and BOTH have material harm. The only difference is you don't personally deny it like you do harm toward trans people.

[Yuji]

If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.

[Shaddy]

If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

I too, confess how anti ball-stabbing I am before every time I stab someone in the balls, and feel blissful in my innocence.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.

Well, first off,


And secondly, no, that's a very fucking stupid point actually, one that ignores how many people live in the closet, plenty of them nonwhite, but he doesn't have any problem lumping them in with the others. Also, again, human rights are not a finite resource to be doled out only to the deserving, and it is the fantasy of utter fucking tools to pretend that LGBT people "making strides" in social acceptance is at all material when there is still a mounting increase in legislative attempts to revoke every right they have. Texas is trying to unconstitutionally ban gay marriage again, for crying out loud. Culture is plastic, and every single increase in rights any minoritized group gains can be taken away again, usually in reverse order to which they are gained. And oh, look at that, what gain in minority groups rights happened a couple years before stonewall?

The utter lack of any understanding of intersectionality on display is not only shitty of Chappelle, it's self-defeating. Transphobes, are as white than the LGBT community after all, and quite a bit more racist. The audience he's playing to is one that will gladly claim that the existence of trans people is a part of international jewish conspiracy, and he doesn't see the conflict of interest there?

[JulieYBM]

There's been a record number of anti-trans bills enacted in 2021. There's also been a record number of murders of trans people. https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-vio ... ty-in-2021

Call me a piece of shit for not wanting to subject myself to 72 minutes of unfunny and unsympathetic bullshit from a cis man. I already have to pretend to laugh and smile when cis men think they're being funny in my daily life, I don't want to have to do it for a millionaire who apparently ghosted his supposed good trans friend whom he also treated like shit. https://twitter.com/two_n_minus_one/sta ... ClfOg&s=19


So, yeah, I'm going to just say: cis people need to learn about trans people before you talk about us because holy shit, we learn to protect our safety through placating like motherfuckers. That trans friend who says "Yeah, no, it's fine" when you say or do something hurtful? Bitch is lyin' out their ass, especially if they're trying extra hard to make *you* feel better about *your* fuck up. We're all suffering from trauma and nearly constantly in survival mode. Meeting all of your needs even if it exhausts us is the only way we'll be able to feel a little more safe.

Anyway, glad to see Dragon Ball fans hate trans women as much as they do cis women. Almost gives me gender euphoria!

[Yuji]

If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

I too, confess how anti ball-stabbing I am before every time I stab someone in the balls, and feel blissful in my innocence.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.

Well, first off,


And secondly, no, that's a very fucking stupid point actually, one that ignores how many people live in the closet, plenty of them nonwhite, but he doesn't have any problem lumping them in with the others. Also, again, human rights are not a finite resource to be doled out only to the deserving, and it is the fantasy of utter fucking tools to pretend that LGBT people "making strides" in social acceptance is at all material when there is still a mounting increase in legislative attempts to revoke every right they have. Texas is trying to unconstitutionally ban gay marriage again, for crying out loud. Culture is plastic, and every single increase in rights any minoritized group gains can be taken away again, usually in reverse order to which they are gained. And oh, look at that, what gain in minority groups rights happened a couple years before stonewall?

The utter lack of any understanding of intersectionality on display is not only shitty of Chappelle, it's self-defeating. Transphobes, are as white than the LGBT community after all, and quite a bit more racist. The audience he's playing to is one that will gladly claim that the existence of trans people is a part of international jewish conspiracy, and he doesn't see the conflict of interest there?

You may claim that Chapelle is being hypocritical or that he's making transphobic jokes, but to claim he himself is a transphobe is just patently false.

You must be blind to ignore how the LGBT movement has only gained public awareness because it was pushed in the last century by majority white activists. That's how it goes, cultural issues are only treated seriously in the United States when white people, especially cis straight white people, gain an interest in them. I thought we all could agree on this but I guess not.

The LGBT movement HAS made major strides in the United States especially in comparison to the black civil rights movement which is still pretty much in the same position now as it was at the end of the 60s. This doesn't mean that the LGBT still don't have issues to face, and you could argue that because they started from an arguably lower point that they had more ground to cover in order to catch up, but all this doesn't matter to Chappelle who is a black man who feels understandably that his issues are more important to him and that as a black man, they seem to take a backseat when "white people" become activists. Yes, this betrays a fundamental ignorance of intersectionality and that's why I said this is the most compelling criticism you can throw at Dave, but it doesn't make it any less understandable and sympathetic.

[Shaddy]

You may claim that Chapelle is being hypocritical or that he's making transphobic jokes, but to claim he himself is a transphobe is just patently false.

No it's not. A person who says and does transphobic things is what a transphobe is. If he doesn't like that identification, he can very easily stop being a fuckface whenever he wants.

You must be blind to ignore how the LGBT movement has only gained public awareness because it was pushed in the last century by majority white activists. That's how it goes, cultural issues are only treated seriously in the United States when white people, especially cis straight white people, gain an interest in them. I thought we all could agree on this but I guess not.

That sure sounds like a minimization of the efforts of nonwhite activists on your part, but either way it wouldn't matter. You are still trying to justify his shitty comments on the basis that the establishment has allowed one group a marginal amount more leeway than another, but he's not going up against the establishment, he's shitting on individuals for a superficial trait. That is the definition of punching down, especially with the whole "man who has been rich for decades attacking historically impoverished community" aspect.

this betrays a fundamental ignorance of intersectionality and that's why I said this is the most compelling criticism you can throw at Dave, but it doesn't make it any less understandable and sympathetic.

Well yes it does, actually. If you want to complain about bigotry in society, doing the tiniest bit of research to not be a bigoted fucking shitheel yourself is not a very difficult prerequisite, and it would be incredibly naive to imply that Chappelle is incapable of this or even unaware. He's very intentionally ignoring things he almost certainly knows to be true to be an asshole on purpose.

It's bad enough to place one group's fight for rights above another to summarily turn them against each other -- to claim that someone doing this so consistently for several years is just innocently stupid is another world of ridiculous, and not a little bit racist yourself, frankly.

[Aim]

If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

I too, confess how anti ball-stabbing I am before every time I stab someone in the balls, and feel blissful in my innocence.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.

Well, first off,


And secondly, no, that's a very fucking stupid point actually, one that ignores how many people live in the closet, plenty of them nonwhite, but he doesn't have any problem lumping them in with the others. Also, again, human rights are not a finite resource to be doled out only to the deserving, and it is the fantasy of utter fucking tools to pretend that LGBT people "making strides" in social acceptance is at all material when there is still a mounting increase in legislative attempts to revoke every right they have. Texas is trying to unconstitutionally ban gay marriage again, for crying out loud. Culture is plastic, and every single increase in rights any minoritized group gains can be taken away again, usually in reverse order to which they are gained. And oh, look at that, what gain in minority groups rights happened a couple years before stonewall?

The utter lack of any understanding of intersectionality on display is not only shitty of Chappelle, it's self-defeating. Transphobes, are as white than the LGBT community after all, and quite a bit more racist. The audience he's playing to is one that will gladly claim that the existence of trans people is a part of international jewish conspiracy, and he doesn't see the conflict of interest there?

You may claim that Chapelle is being hypocritical or that he's making transphobic jokes, but to claim he himself is a transphobe is just patently false.

You must be blind to ignore how the LGBT movement has only gained public awareness because it was pushed in the last century by majority white activists. That's how it goes, cultural issues are only treated seriously in the United States when white people, especially cis straight white people, gain an interest in them. I thought we all could agree on this but I guess not.

The LGBT movement HAS made major strides in the United States especially in comparison to the black civil rights movement which is still pretty much in the same position now as it was at the end of the 60s. This doesn't mean that the LGBT still don't have issues to face, and you could argue that because they started from an arguably lower point that they had more ground to cover in order to catch up, but all this doesn't matter to Chappelle who is a black man who feels understandably that his issues are more important to him and that as a black man, they seem to take a backseat when "white people" become activists. Yes, this betrays a fundamental ignorance of intersectionality and that's why I said this is the most compelling criticism you can throw at Dave, but it doesn't make it any less understandable and sympathetic.

Oh no, the black community is having issues progressing? Surely it couldn’t be because of how conservative their community generally is? Sure doesn’t help, but doing what the people who oppress you do and attack minorities (which the people of color always suffer the most by the way) is a really fucking stupid thing to do. Chapelle’s argument that white people can’t be criticized because they fall back on being transgender or some crap is so stupid.

Also the TERF business is extremely important, TERF’s aim to blur the line between sex and gender which is exactly what that moron played into. I don’t think he hates trans people, I just think he’s a spiteful moron who’s busting his balls trying to play victim while he probably fucks trans sex workers off the street in his mansion. Wouldn’t surprise me, typical of people like that.

[Shaddy]

I don't know if I'd describe being too conservative as the reason black people are denied rights. It's more that the establishment is too conservative, and views the existence of black people as communism. If anything, they'd want black people to be more conservative, because to them, black conservatism is synonymous with subservience.

The issue is really that the establishment thrives on fostering division between groups they want to oppress, and if Dave Chappelle isn't literally acting according to their will, he's a happy accident. He is not speaking truth to power, he's telling lies to distract from power.

Let's refrain from pretending his fabricated world where black people as a collective body somehow side with transphobic shitheads is the real world.

[PurestEvil]

Are you people seriously arguing that the LGBT+ movement is hindering the black rights movement? Get a grip...

PS: humor is funnier when it is based on facts

[Yuji]

Are you people seriously arguing that the LGBT+ movement is hindering the black rights movement? Get a grip...

Literally nobody said this.

[Shaddy]

I mean, you kinda did.

[JulieYBM]

Kinda curious to see how y'all would feel on a few months of Estradiol and Bica or Spiro, not gonna lie. Would definitely make this conversation more interesting.

[Yuji]

You may claim that Chapelle is being hypocritical or that he's making transphobic jokes, but to claim he himself is a transphobe is just patently false.

No it's not. A person who says and does transphobic things is what a transphobe is. If he doesn't like that identification, he can very easily stop being a fuckface whenever he wants.

You must be blind to ignore how the LGBT movement has only gained public awareness because it was pushed in the last century by majority white activists. That's how it goes, cultural issues are only treated seriously in the United States when white people, especially cis straight white people, gain an interest in them. I thought we all could agree on this but I guess not.

That sure sounds like a minimization of the efforts of nonwhite activists on your part, but either way it wouldn't matter. You are still trying to justify his shitty comments on the basis that the establishment has allowed one group a marginal amount more leeway than another, but he's not going up against the establishment, he's shitting on individuals for a superficial trait. That is the definition of punching down, especially with the whole "man who has been rich for decades attacking historically impoverished community" aspect.

this betrays a fundamental ignorance of intersectionality and that's why I said this is the most compelling criticism you can throw at Dave, but it doesn't make it any less understandable and sympathetic.

Well yes it does, actually. If you want to complain about bigotry in society, doing the tiniest bit of research to not be a bigoted fucking shitheel yourself is not a very difficult prerequisite, and it would be incredibly naive to imply that Chappelle is incapable of this or even unaware. He's very intentionally ignoring things he almost certainly knows to be true to be an asshole on purpose.

It's bad enough to place one group's fight for rights above another to summarily turn them against each other -- to claim that someone doing this so consistently for several years is just innocently stupid is another world of ridiculous, and not a little bit racist yourself, frankly.

Is Chappelle a racist for making racist jokes? Is Chappelle sexist for making sexist jokes? A transphobic joke is a joke, all jokes punch somewhere. He has expressed support over trans people in the special itself and outside of it multiple times.

Nobody is justifying anything because there is nothing to justify, Chappelle is making jokes at the expense of people he supports just like he has done multiple times with black people or other marginalized groups. Not all comedy has to punch up, that's a cancerous mindset the modern left has.

I understand anyone who may be offended af the special and might not want to watch it, but separating the art from the artist is key.

I forgot to mention this, but you could also argue that he's just being petty at this point in including more jokes about transpeople as a response to his initial criticism a few specials ago. That's another valid criticism, he's deliberately playing with fire.

I mean you kinda did.

If you don't have even basic reading comprehension, then you might as well excuse yourself from replying to my posts ever again.

I said very clearly that from Chappelle's perspective, he believes the social progress and acceptance of the LGBT movement has been comparatively easier in comparison to the black civil rights movement. Nowhere did I state I share his opinion, or that his opinion is valid and legitimate, only that as a black man in America, he will understandably look at society through the lens of his own experience and place a greater importance on issues that directly affect him and his people. If you conflate sympathy with validation, then that's on you.

[PurestEvil]

Kinda curious to see how y'all would feel on a few months of Estradiol and Bica or Spiro, not gonna lie. Would definitely make this conversation more interesting.

Cis-men produce estradiol, as well

[JulieYBM]

Kinda curious to see how y'all would feel on a few months of Estradiol and Bica or Spiro, not gonna lie. Would definitely make this conversation more interesting.

Cis-men produce estradiol, as well

I'm referring to the medicine for the sake of the joke.

The joke which, by the way, is a trans joke that is actually funny.

[PurestEvil]

Kinda curious to see how y'all would feel on a few months of Estradiol and Bica or Spiro, not gonna lie. Would definitely make this conversation more interesting.

Cis-men produce estradiol, as well

I'm referring to the medicine for the sake of the joke.

The joke which, by the way, is a trans joke that is actually funny.

[Shaddy]

Is Chappelle a racist for making racist jokes? Is Chappelle sexist for making sexist jokes?

I mean, sure?

A transphobic joke is a joke, all jokes punch somewhere.

Some places are better to punch than others. Shocking, I know.

He has expressed support over trans people in the special itself and outside of it multiple times.

I have expressed support for the punctured-nuts community during my nut-stabbings and outside of them multiple times.

Nobody is justifying anything because there is nothing to justify, Chappelle is making jokes at the expense of people he supports just like he has done multiple times with black people or other marginalized groups.

No, actually the people he supports are the ones he said he supports, which are the transphobes, who he said he supports.

Not all comedy has to punch up, that's a cancerous mindset the modern left has.

Nah, it's actually a really obvious and easy thing that people have done perfectly well at since the beginning of time basically. Maybe you're just not good enough.

I understand anyone who may be offended af the special and might not want to watch it, but separating the art from the artist is key.

Well, separate from the artist means that you don't get to play the "one time he said something that wasn't transphobic so that means he definitely isn't" card.

I forgot to mention this, but you could also argue that he's just being petty at this point in including more jokes about transpeople as a response to his initial criticism a few specials ago. That's another valid criticism, he's deliberately playing with fire.

He's playing with fire in that he's making transphobic jokes for transphobes, and transphobes given enough time or power will absolutely attack him as a black person.

If you don't have even basic reading comprehension, then you might as well excuse yourself from replying to my posts ever again.

Well thankfully I do, that's why when you implicitly say that LGBT people and black people are somehow opposed to each other, I can point that out.

I said very clearly that from Chappelle's perspective, he believes the social progress and acceptance of the LGBT movement has been comparatively easier in comparison to the black civil rights movement.

Yes, and you are saying that very reductive belief is reason enough to demand others give him a break when he acts like a piece of shit.

Nowhere did I state I share his opinion, or that his opinion is valid and legitimate, only that as a black man in America, he will understandably look at society through the lens of his own experience and place a greater importance on issues that directly affect him and his people.

But his experience for the last several decades is being a rich celebrity who can basically do whatever the fuck he wants. There is no direct affect on him from the LGBT community. You're either saying he has good reason to view them as some kind of threat, or that black people in general do.

If you conflate sympathy with validation, then that's on you.

I'm not conflating them. You both sympathize and validate his opinion, and both those things are wrong. If someone is being a shithead, and you sympathize with them for <insert any bullshit reason you've given here tonight> that's not great on the face of it, but you are actively dragging others for not doing the same and very explicitly condemning their criticism as invalid, which is about as naked a statement on the validity of the opposing opinion as you can get without going completely mask-off.

[Yuji]

I mean, sure?

Reductive and nonsensical. Go touch some grass.

No, actually the people he supports are the ones he said he supports, which are the transphobes, who he said he supports.

If I make a joke about the swastika being aesthetically pleasing, am I signaling support for the Nazis?

Nah, it's actually a really obvious and easy thing that people have done perfectly well at since the beginning of time basically. Maybe you're just not good enough.

Yes, Dave Chappelle, one of the most highly acclaimed comedians of all time, isn't good enough of a comedian to know the universal rule that you must always punch up. Or literally any other comedian that has punched down before.

Well, separate from the artist means that you don't get to play the "one time he said something that wasn't transphobic so that means he definitely isn't" card.

Separating the art from the artist means recognizing that the art may project different views the artist may not hold in order to illicit a variety of emotional responses, in case you're having trouble keeping up with this very basic idea.

Yes, and you are saying that very reductive belief is reason enough to demand others give him a break when he acts like a piece of shit.

Wrong. I said multiple times it's a legitimate criticism to levy at him. Keep up.

But his experience for the last several decades is being a rich celebrity who can basically do whatever the fuck he wants. There is no direct affect on him from the LGBT community. You're either saying he has good reason to view them as some kind of threat, or that black people in general do.

Being rich does not automatically exclude you from the influences of systemic racism. I didn't think you were ignorant enough to make this point.

I've already realized you're arguing in bad faith and playing the rhetoric game, but I'll say it for the third or fourth time in case you're some daft, know-it-all 20 year old kid that nobody is claiming Chappelle's binary is legitimate.

I'm not conflating them. You both sympathize and validate his opinion, and both those things are wrong. If someone is being a shithead, and you sympathize with them for <insert any bullshit reason you've given here tonight> that's not great on the face of it, but you are actively dragging others for not doing the same and very explicitly condemning their criticism as invalid, which is about as naked a statement on the validity of the opposing opinion as you can get without going completely mask-off.

See, but you are conflating sympathy with validation by claiming I'm making a moral judgment on you for not understanding his side. That's on you. I said multiple times his argument is not valid and I've said multiple times that him not understanding intersectionality is the most scathing criticism you can make of him. Understanding that Chappelle's views (or anyone's) are a product of his personal experience and in-group bias is a necessary component of any discussion pertaining to bigotry.