Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[SupremeKai25]

Well I didn't necessarily say the movie will be filler, it obviously isn't because Toriyama is writing it, but those shark villains genuinely look like filler villains

It's just that they don't look threatening, they look ridiculous/funny, I guess sort of like Fat Buu. They look like cosplayers or dudes going trick or treating on Halloween. Maybe it's the shark head.

It wouldn't surprise me if they turned out to be fodder and were just minions of the real villain, not too differently from the henchmen in other DB movies (like Cooler's soldiers).

[PurestEvil]

Well...yes. I’m pretty sure they are minions of the real villain...the RRA...which we saw in the trailer...

[SupremeKai25]

Well...yes. I’m pretty sure they are minions of the real villain...the RRA...which we saw in the trailer...

By "real villain" I mean someone who isn't associated to that fodder army that got slaughtered by Kid Goku.

I'm also not interested in a Cell rehash frankly.

[capsulecorp]

You mean these guys? . They look pretty weird, but to me they look about as Toriyama-esque as Jaco or any of the Galactic Patrol, or even Beerus and Whis.

Yeah these guys look great! They have a classic sorta retro vibe to them, which I think is part of the reason they feel so much like a Toriyama original. To me, these are very obviously not Toyotaro. He tends to draw inspiration a lot more from other manga and anime.

I think it's fantastic that Toei is willing to try movies that might not seem like obvious "hits" at first glance. It shows a respect for the material and a creative maturity beyond mere pandering to the demented thirst for ever-increasing power levels, ever-greater threats. I don't want them to simply listen to the loudest fans. The fans are, frankly, usually wrong.

Also just as an aside, I'm somewhat confused and disappointed by the tendency for fans to be overly concerned with the finances and profit of the corporations that own the art they appreciate. Are you a shareholder or something?

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

It's just that they don't look threatening, they look ridiculous/funny, I guess sort of like Fat Buu. They look like cosplayers or dudes going trick or treating on Halloween. Maybe it's the shark head.

Fair enough, although that's not a problem for me, as Fat Boo was my favorite version when he was a villain, and is in general one of my favorite villains of the franchise.

Yeah these guys look great! They have a classic sorta retro vibe to them, which I think is part of the reason they feel so much like a Toriyama original. To me, these are very obviously not Toyotaro. He tends to draw inspiration a lot more from other manga and anime.

I think it's fantastic that Toei is willing to try movies that might not seem like obvious "hits" at first glance. It shows a respect for the material and a creative maturity beyond mere pandering to the demented thirst for ever-increasing power levels, ever-greater threats. I don't want them to simply listen to the loudest fans. The fans are, frankly, usually wrong.

Also just as an aside, I'm somewhat confused and disappointed by the tendency for fans to be overly concerned with the finances and profit of the corporations that own the art they appreciate. Are you a shareholder or something?

Totally agreed on that, and I'm not shilling for Toei. But I like that they're doing something different (aside from the animation, although I'll keep an open mind) and not just going with the obvious "stronger universe busting" type of antagonists for this one. I think it's far too soon to say this movie won't do well financially also. Dragon Ball has always had weird looking characters, so I just don't really understand the take that it'll somehow equal this failing at the box office.

[SupremeKai25]

Fair enough, although that's not a problem for me, as Fat Boo was my favorite version when he was a villain, and is in general one of my favorite villains of the franchise.

And yet in the end Fat Buu was just a red herring, a mere stepping stone for the real villain of the arc (Evil Buu).

I think that a similar dynamic will be present in this movie.

[capsulecorp]

Fair enough, although that's not a problem for me, as Fat Boo was my favorite version when he was a villain, and is in general one of my favorite villains of the franchise.

And yet in the end Fat Buu was just a red herring, a mere stepping stone for the real villain of the arc (Evil Buu).

I think that a similar dynamic will be present in this movie.

This is a misunderstanding of the role of Fat Buu, it's like saying Yamcha or Tien or Krillin were red herrings, merely stepping stones. Fat Buu is a character that gets significant development over the course of that story, he sticks around and joins the gang after its over. Evil Buu is the stepping stone.

[SupremeKai25]

Fair enough, although that's not a problem for me, as Fat Boo was my favorite version when he was a villain, and is in general one of my favorite villains of the franchise.

And yet in the end Fat Buu was just a red herring, a mere stepping stone for the real villain of the arc (Evil Buu).

I think that a similar dynamic will be present in this movie.

This is a misunderstanding of the role of Fat Buu, it's like saying Yamcha or Tien or Krillin were red herrings, merely stepping stones. Fat Buu is a character that gets significant development over the course of that story, he sticks around and joins the gang after its over. Evil Buu is the stepping stone.

The misunderstanding is on your part.

Fat Buu is a red herring because he's presented as the final villain of the arc, as the one that Babidi's army is trying to resurrect, when he's not. He gets absorbed by the true final villain, becoming a stepping stone for the real villain's evolution. In the same vein as Androids 17 and 18.

Also if we want to get technical Kid Buu plays an even more important role, as he gets reincarnated into Uub who becomes Goku's successor.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

And yet in the end Fat Buu was just a red herring, a mere stepping stone for the real villain of the arc (Evil Buu).

I think that a similar dynamic will be present in this movie.

This is a misunderstanding of the role of Fat Buu, it's like saying Yamcha or Tien or Krillin were red herrings, merely stepping stones. Fat Buu is a character that gets significant development over the course of that story, he sticks around and joins the gang after its over. Evil Buu is the stepping stone.

The misunderstanding is on your part.

Fat Buu is a red herring because he's presented as the final villain of the arc, as the one that Babidi's army is trying to resurrect, when he's not. He gets absorbed by the true final villain.

Also if we want to get technical Kid Buu plays an even more important role, as he gets reincarnated into Uub who becomes Goku's successor.

To be fair, that can be said for Dabura to a degree also. He's wasn't shown to be the main villain, but after seeing how menacing he was, it served to reason that Boo would be something much more frightening. Evil/Super Boo is more in-line with what I was expecting to hatch out of the egg than the Fat one. Even if he wasn't the final villain, I thought it was a neat subversion of expectations to have him initially be the new villain.

[SupremeKai25]

This is a misunderstanding of the role of Fat Buu, it's like saying Yamcha or Tien or Krillin were red herrings, merely stepping stones. Fat Buu is a character that gets significant development over the course of that story, he sticks around and joins the gang after its over. Evil Buu is the stepping stone.

The misunderstanding is on your part.

Fat Buu is a red herring because he's presented as the final villain of the arc, as the one that Babidi's army is trying to resurrect, when he's not. He gets absorbed by the true final villain.

Also if we want to get technical Kid Buu plays an even more important role, as he gets reincarnated into Uub who becomes Goku's successor.

To be fair, that can be said for Dabura to a degree also. He's wasn't shown to be the main villain, but after seeing how menacing he was, it served to reason that Boo would be something much more frightening. Evil/Super Boo is more in-line with what I was expecting to hatch out of the egg than the Fat one. Even if he wasn't the final villain, I thought it was a neat subversion of expectations to have him initially be the new villain.

Fat Buu in the end could never be the final villain because he looks like a joke. The story is self-aware with this; hence why Dabura literally points out that Fat Buu looks like a joke and not like the monster that destroyed galaxies. That's why he's so confident when he challenges him.

It looked like Fat Buu could be the final villain after he killed Babidi, the only one who could control him; but at the same time he also healed a boy and befriended Satan and his dog, meaning that he couldn't be the "evil final villain" everyone was expecting.

So it was clear that Fat Buu would get replaced eventually by someone, because he's not final villain material design and personality-wise, while Super/Kid Buu is...

And thus I predict that the same thing will happen in this movie with the shark dudes

[capsulecorp]

And yet in the end Fat Buu was just a red herring, a mere stepping stone for the real villain of the arc (Evil Buu).

I think that a similar dynamic will be present in this movie.

This is a misunderstanding of the role of Fat Buu, it's like saying Yamcha or Tien or Krillin were red herrings, merely stepping stones. Fat Buu is a character that gets significant development over the course of that story, he sticks around and joins the gang after its over. Evil Buu is the stepping stone.

The misunderstanding is on your part.

Fat Buu is a red herring because he's presented as the final villain of the arc, as the one that Babidi's army is trying to resurrect, when he's not. He gets absorbed by the true final villain, becoming a stepping stone for the real villain's evolution. In the same vein as Androids 17 and 18.

Also if we want to get technical Kid Buu plays an even more important role, as he gets reincarnated into Uub who becomes Goku's successor.

The problem with this perspective is that it reduces the entire story to a videogamey "final boss". There's a lot more going on in the Buu arc and, indeed, most DB stories, than just "who is the last guy the protagonists fight" or even "who is the strongest guy". Again, was Krillin merely a stepping stone to Jackie Chun? No, of course not.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

You mean these guys? .

Yeah these guys look great! They have a classic sorta retro vibe to them, which I think is part of the reason they feel so much like a Toriyama original. To me, these are very obviously not Toyotaro. He tends to draw inspiration a lot more from other manga and anime.

Great? It’s literally the same generic Frieza face design FFS doesn’t anyone notice this??? We’ve seen this already with Cell & Cooler which you can somewhat excuse. But Frost,Hit, OG73, Moro 73 all have the exact same face as these guys just with a fin(s) it’s extremely lazy character design .

I think it's fantastic that Toei is willing to try movies that might not seem like obvious "hits" at first glance. It shows a respect for the material and a creative maturity beyond mere pandering to the demented thirst for ever-increasing power levels, ever-greater threats. I don't want them to simply listen to the loudest fans. The fans are, frankly, usually wrong.

Creative Maturity? I’m 99% sure this movie will be yet another Cell/Android saga rehash just this time with terrible CGi. Don’t get me started on the power level asspull(one that would make ROF blush) fans should know is coming where these two goofy characters will be able to match/defeat Goku post Granola arc out of the blue. Creative maturity would be exploring the other universes or realms, new powerful races of characters etc things the supposed “fans who are usually wrong” have been asking for quite sometime now

Also just as an aside, I'm somewhat confused and disappointed by the tendency for fans to be overly concerned with the finances and profit of the corporations that own the art they appreciate. Are you a shareholder or something?

I brought it up cause usually it’s somewhat of an indicator to tell where a company might put more effort and resources towards for said IP. Yet Toei is an odd one, your most profitable IP for the last 4 years & you comeback with a low stakes shitty CGI movie??? it’s a sad state of affairs when shows like Dragon quest Dai and Digimon get animated in 2-D & take precedence over Dragonball? . It’s gonna look very strange when that new Slam Dunk & Kitaro movie come out in 2022 animated in 2-D yet Toei claims they don’t have staff available???

All in all this movie truly deserves to fail. Maybe it will send a wake up call to Toei or whoever to give up on these yo son Goku & friends/BOG esque stories with the repeated unfunny gag jokes we’ve already heard in the series before & get their shit together to give the fans some real & cool multiversal level threats for Goku, Vegeta & Broly to fight.If it doesn't bomb, it will only be because of the brand reputation DB has. Which has been on the decline due to an absence of new material (sans SDBH) on TV & the former and current arcs which are lackluster @ best both from a writing & art perspective.

[VegettoEX]

get their shit together to give the fans some real & cool multiversal level threats for Goku, Vegeta & Broly to fight.

I do not even remotely want any of this in future Dragon Ball content.

[capsulecorp]

get their shit together to give the fans some real & cool multiversal level threats for Goku, Vegeta & Broly to fight.

I do not even remotely want any of this in future Dragon Ball content.

seconded, keep that kind of nonsense to Dragon Ball Heroes or, better yet, not even there.

[PurestEvil]

get their shit together to give the fans some real & cool multiversal level threats for Goku, Vegeta & Broly to fight.

I do not even remotely want any of this in future Dragon Ball content.

Do you not want "cool multiversal" stories or stories like this film?
Sorry for asking, I just found your comment to be a bit vague.

[VegettoEX]

Do you not want "cool multiversal" stories or stories like this film?
Sorry for asking, I just found your comment to be a bit vague.

"oh no it's a stronger guy who can punch a universe run gauntlet multiomnipotemmence how will goku defeat him he must get stronger and angrier and say mean things while howling aura rages"

I am not even remotely interested in these kinds of stories at this point in time. This is the kind of stuff that sounds like a 10-year-old came up with it, or even worse, like literal satire.

Give me kitch, give me sap, give me bright colors, give me smiles. Throw something subtly dark underneath all that. Dragon Ball is at its best sure when things are serious, but not JUST that -- it's best when they're undercut and have levity along the entire journey, with hope leading them to the end of it, all wrapped up in a bunch of expertly-timed character dialog beats and dry humor.

I'm all aboard for Super Hero.

[omaro34]

get their shit together to give the fans some real & cool multiversal level threats for Goku, Vegeta & Broly to fight.

I do not even remotely want any of this in future Dragon Ball content.

seconded, keep that kind of nonsense to Dragon Ball Heroes or, better yet, not even there.

thirded lol, would hate for this to happen. What's being suggested is exactly like Heroes, which isn't good at all.

A plot that drives development for the overall story is what's needed, not just focusing on the same old Goku & Vegeta duo and what new form they reached to beat a new god level threat.

[MCDaveG]

Just a thought… do you think that the two robot looking guys 1 and 2 will “fuse” into a villain called 3?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Just a thought… do you think that the two robot looking guys 1 and 2 will “fuse” into a villain called 3?

Be more creative, 1+2 = 12

Mark my words, it'll happen!

[PurestEvil]

Just a thought… do you think that the two robot looking guys 1 and 2 will “fuse” into a villain called 3?

Be more creative, 1+2 = 12

Mark my words, it'll happen!

It all depends on what puns the Japanese language will permit (which is a LOT, apparently)