"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Marz]

Everything points to Toriyama doing Super Hero while doing minor things for the manga. He was more involved with this arc since he came up with the Heeters, Oatmeal, and the new Namekian lore, but even the Heeters wasn't something Toriyama could bother to design.

Toyotaro said Toriyama took the pitch he sent and expanded and created a full fledged story around Granolah. He created the Heeters, the new set of Dragon Balls, Monaito, the Sugarians, even gave details on Granolah's design. We know that things like Vegeta's new form and Bardock's involvement were specifically green lighted by him too. And that's pretty much everything we know so far and I don't consider it ''minor things''. The ''planning'' mentioned by Toyotaro involved meetings with Uchida and Toriyama.

Like, yes, I get that this is the narrative some want to push because it's convenient for their point of view / confirmation bias, but it's misleading. Which is why I'm starting to dislike interviews revealing who gave the idea what, because it seems the only use of this is for people to discredit parts of the story or ideas that didn't come from him when at this point it's pretty clear that Super as a whole is a joint work, and hardly an idea is 100% Toriyama when there are so many interventions and changes along the way. Like, for most of its run Toriyama just provided to DBS drafts with vague ideas of where the story was headed while the rest of things (a lot) all had to be filled in by other people. Hell, it didn't even include dialogue. Several characters that appeared in the story were not even designed by him (Kale, half the GoDs) and others were through other people's ideas (Vegetto, God Vegeta) and who ended up crossing other media. Following this logic, one might as well discredit half of this series

[HeroR]

Toyotaro said Toriyama took the pitch he sent and expanded and created a full fledged story around Granolah. He created the Heeters, the new set of Dragon Balls, Monaito, the Sugarians, even gave details on Granolah's design. We know that things like Vegeta's new form and Bardock's involvement were specifically green lighted by him too. And that's pretty much everything we know so far and I don't consider it ''minor things''. The ''planning'' mentioned by Toyotaro involved meetings with Uchida and Toriyama.

Like, yes, I get that this is the narrative some want to push because it's convenient for their point of view / confirmation bias, but it's misleading. Which is why I'm starting to dislike interviews revealing who gave the idea what, because it seems the only use of this is for people to discredit parts of the story or ideas that didn't come from him when at this point it's pretty clear that Super as a whole is a joint work, and hardly an idea is 100% Toriyama when there are so many interventions and changes along the way. Like, for most of its run Toriyama just provided to DBS drafts with vague ideas of where the story was headed while the rest of things (a lot) all had to be filled in by other people. Hell, it didn't even include dialogue. Several characters that appeared in the story were not even designed by him (Kale, half the GoDs) and others were through other people's ideas (Vegetto, God Vegeta) and who ended up crossing other media. Following this logic, one might as well discredit half of this series

Toriyama's involvement with UE and Bardock was basically an 'okay'. He gave details of Granolah's design, but he didn't make the character since Granolah is Toyo down to his backstory. Outside of the Heeters and the new Namekian lore, it is much more minor than some people pushed or stated early on when people outright said Toriyama scripted this arc like every arc in Dragon Ball Super before Moro. Like Vegeta's big form that is supposed to rival UI and be its opposite counterpart wasn't even made or designed by Toriyama. It's basically no different than SSBE. Which I find amusing since it tells me that unlike Toei and Toyo, Toriyama doesn't really care about making Vegeta Goku's rival in power.

People at this point should know that Dragon Ball Super outside of the movies is a team effect. Like the anime staff basically did the Universal Survival Saga since they made almost all the combatants, flush out the other universes, gave a reason why Jiren, Toppo, and Dypso were the same uniform, created Kale which lead to the creation of Cali and later Kelfa, created UI Signs, and SSBE. That along with Toyo designing most of the new gods.

People already do discredit most of Super, so *shrug*. My issue with Toyo is a lot of his ideas feels like force fan-service like Bardock didn't need to be in Granola's story since any Saiyan in existence could have filled that role, but Toyo really wanted Bardock in the main story and Goku to learn about him. Or how UE came out of nowhere as a counterpart for UI when all the Gods of Destruction strived to get UI with Beerus even using a mild version of it as confirmed in all medias and even showing it off in the manga, to suddenly Beerus saying that UI isn't suited for a God of Destruction. That and how he handled UE is questionable since its first showing was kinda meh.

[Marz]

Toriyama's involvement with UE and Bardock was basically an 'okay'. He gave details of Granolah's design, but he didn't make the character since Granolah is Toyo down to his backstory. Outside of the Heeters and the new Namekian lore, it is much more minor than some people pushed or stated early on when people outright said Toriyama scripted this arc like every arc in Dragon Ball Super before Moro.

There is no one pushing that the story is 100% Toriyama, just you doing the opposite when there's statments against it. Toyotaro said Toriyama took his initial idea and expanded it by creating a whole story around it, so I don't know why you're specifically cherry picking things not done by him to say ''well look, it was just minor things you know''. Toriyama also gave Vegetto and God Vegeta an ''okay'' in the manga, and both ended up crossing media and appearing beyond the manga. So not sure what your point is. I could say that Toriyama didn't care about fusions reappearing or giving the God form to Vegeta because both are Toyotaro's ideia despite his green light, but both appeared later in his movie. So it's just dsingenuous to take the opportunity to claim the same now with Ultra Ego or any other idea.

Toriyama didn't create Broly either, and the idea of ​​using the character in the film came from his editor. Does that change the fact that he wrote the script and created a story around the character? He didn't exactly do the same with Granolah because in the manga there is a collaboration between Toyotaro, Uchida and Tori (and his involvment with the movies are likely greater), but Toyotaro himself said that Tori was the one who fleshed out the story. So what else is there to say?
Toyo also said that he asked Tori several questions about Bardock to represent the character in the best way possible, so none of the details about Bardock were taken from Toyo's ass anyway.

I don't care about the rest of your post because I'm not arguing whether you liked it or not. And the only reason I'm getting into this stupid discussion about who did what is for the same reason that these interviews are starting to get annoying. People cherry picking things to use in a way that best suits their bias, like now.

[HeroR]

Toriyama's involvement with UE and Bardock was basically an 'okay'. He gave details of Granolah's design, but he didn't make the character since Granolah is Toyo down to his backstory. Outside of the Heeters and the new Namekian lore, it is much more minor than some people pushed or stated early on when people outright said Toriyama scripted this arc like every arc in Dragon Ball Super before Moro.

There is no one pushing that the story is 100% Toriyama, just you doing the opposite when there's statments against it. Toyotaro said Toriyama took his initial idea and expanded it by creating a whole story around it, so I don't know why you're specifically cherry picking things not done by him to say ''well look, it was just minor things you know''. Toriyama also gave Vegetto and God Vegeta an ''okay'' in the manga, and both ended up crossing media and appearing beyond the manga. So not sure what your point is. I could say that Toriyama didn't care about fusions reappearing or giving the God form to Vegeta because both are Toyotaro's ideia despite his green light, but both appeared later in his movie. So it's just dsingenuous to take the opportunity to claim the same now with Ultra Ego or any other idea.

Toriyama didn't create Broly either, and the idea of ​​using the character in the film came from his editor. Does that change the fact that he wrote the script and created a story around the character? He didn't exactly do the same with Granolah because in the manga there is a collaboration between Toyotaro, Uchida and Tori (and his involvment with the movies are likely greater), but Toyotaro himself said that Tori was the one who fleshed out the story. So what else is there to say?
Toyo also said that he asked Tori several questions about Bardock to represent the character in the best way possible, so none of the details about Bardock were taken from Toyo's ass anyway.

I don't care about the rest of your post because I'm not arguing whether you liked it or not. And the only reason I'm getting into this stupid discussion about who did what is for the same reason that these interviews are starting to get annoying. People cherry picking things to use in a way that best suits their bias, like now.

When Granola first started, there were people who outright said Toriyama wrote it or at least did the outline like he did for most of Super. It isn't until later that we learned that Granola is in the same vain as Moro where Toyo wrote the arc. What was different was Toriyama had more involvement. I am not cherry-picking anything. Am going by what people said when the arc first started.

Yeah, and about Vegito and God Vegeta? He doesn't really care if after all these years he couldn't be bothered to give Vegeta a new form himself and we're acting like Vegeta getting Super Saiyan God when Super Saiyan God was always power creeped is a big thing. And Vegito was pure fan service since he didn't do anything. You could removed him from the plot and nothing would changed. Vegito is only a little better in anime where his fight with Zamasu at least gave Trunks time to recover. But it was still fan-service.

Actually, Toriyama did design base Broly for the first movie, there is even a sketch on this site of Toriyama's Broly. So he was more involved than he was with UE, funny enough. And the comparison doesn't even work regardless because it isn't even the same Broly from his character to his design. Toriyama's Broly is closed to being Broly in named only.

That isn't my complaint about Bardock. He was inserted into the story because Toyo wanted him there, but he's pure fan-service since his role in the story could have been almost any Saiyan. It could have been some namely nobody and Granola's story wouldn't change. So Bardock is just there. So I don't really care if Toyo got his information from Toriyama about Bardock because Bardock being in the story doesn't do anything when his role could have gone to a random Saiyan NPC. It's the same issue with Vegito Blue.

If it's annoying, then don't engage. People are going to be bias and it isn't on you to tell people to stop being bias. Especially when they write down their reasons why certain story elements don't work and I would have these same complaints even if Toriyama created them. Like I don't like the new Dragon Balls Toriyama created because it feels like lazy plot convenience. That said, for the most part, I was able to guess correctly what came from Toyo because he's write like a fanfic writer.

[Skar]

I don't care about the rest of your post because I'm not arguing whether you liked it or not. And the only reason I'm getting into this stupid discussion about who did what is for the same reason that these interviews are starting to get annoying. People cherry picking things to use in a way that best suits their bias, like now.

At the end of the day, it's all speculation. I do agree there's some bias because if someone has a preference for one version then there seems to be an attempt to discredit the other. The people involved are pretty honest about who was responsible for what when they do bring it up. They probably would be surprised how some fans use it against them since they're the ones providing that background information in the first place. Its not like we're obtaining this information through leaks and that the companies are trying to hide it. I don't have a preference since I try to enjoy both for what they are. If I wanted to rewatch an arc, I think I would prefer some fan recuts I've seen that remove padding that doesn't affect the story than the two official versions.

[OLKv3]

UE was definitely ham fisted into the story. Goes completely against the point of UI and how tough it was to get. Beerus suddenly saying "Yeah UI never was for Gods of Destruction, we have our own cool powerup" was so dumb

[HeroR]

UE was definitely ham fisted into the story. Goes completely against the point of UI and how tough it was to get. Beerus suddenly saying "Yeah UI never was for Gods of Destruction, we have our own cool powerup" was so dumb

TBF, Hakai was always a God of Destruction thing and how it's used it's used is vague enough for anyone to fill in the holes. The problem is using Hakai of all things as counterpart of UI, which is a big huh. So Goku and Vegeta could have gotten Hakai with half the training and time and be just as powerful as a low-level UI user? It becomes worst since Goku used Hakai in the manga and Toyo is trying to walked it back by saying Goku messed up. Like, where did he mess up?

[Marz]

When Granola first started, there were people who outright said Toriyama wrote it or at least did the outline like he did for most of Super. It isn't until later that we learned that Granola is in the same vain as Moro where Toyo wrote the arc. What was different was Toriyama had more involvement. I am not cherry-picking anything. Am going by what people said when the arc first started.

Toyotaro said that Toriyama wrote ''the best draft'' for this arc last year. Which is in line with what he said later about him being the one who fleshed out the story, so there wasn't anything wrong with people claiming that he did the outline in the beginning, but you just want to be obtuse about it. Even then, no one was arguing that it was 100% Toriyama, just the usual for the rest of the Super. What is wrong is claiming the opposite like you is doing when I just showed two statements proving it.

If it's ignoring, then don't engage. People are going to be bias and it isn't on you to tell people from stop being bias. Especially when they write down their reasons why certain story elements don't work and I would have these same complaints even if Toriyama created them. Like I don't like the new Dragon Balls Toriyama created because it feels like lazy plot convenience.

I'm engaging because I'm specifically discussing the Toyo-Tori involvement in the arc/previous arcs and not whatever you keep talking about in the rest of the post (like, I don't care about your beef with Vegeta or whether you think Vegetto is fanservice man, it wasn't my point but you clearly can't understand it). I'm not discussing their role in the story, I'm discussing how the idea not coming from Toriyama himself changes jackshit because the same goes for all of Super (and because Toriyama himself continues to use these non-original concepts n his own story, when I said fusion I meant he used Gogeta later, just like he did with God Vegeta). You are just taking the opportunity to cherry pick things and discredit them because you don't like the manga. Like, I don't understand why some of you folks keep following things that you don't like. You don't like the manga or do you want it to die? Just stop following that and follow whatever media you enjoy, rather than continue to come a here and talk crap in threads you don't like. At the same time, don't get mad when people complain about the new movie saying they want it to flop for example, acting as if this is petty attitude (as if these same folks didn't act same way with other media), because some were acting exactly like that. Sounds (and is) hypocritical

That said, for the most part, I was able to guess correctly what came from Toyo because he's write like a fanfic writer.

Yes, because fake evil Goku and Red and Blue haired forms totally aren't ''fanfic'' ideas...
Toriyama must have stolen this ideas from Toyo or other fanfic writers I guess

[MCDaveG]

Like somebody said, I don’t care who came up with what, but for sure it doesn’t feel like Toriyama’s original manga and so far, I have a feeling that it is mostly the movies, where his involvement shines.

The Super manga gives me the vibes of promotion stuff like Heroes, which it definitely is but it is painted as a sequel, more boring and slow.

+ I am kind of dissapoitend with Toyo’s designs, as they feel more like a fan amalgamation of what he did in AF dojinshi, including the ridiculous looking Ego and lacks the ingenuity of Toriyama during the original run or when you check his video game designs.

[HeroR]

When Granola first started, there were people who outright said Toriyama wrote it or at least did the outline like he did for most of Super. It isn't until later that we learned that Granola is in the same vain as Moro where Toyo wrote the arc. What was different was Toriyama had more involvement. I am not cherry-picking anything. Am going by what people said when the arc first started.

Toyotaro said that Toriyama wrote ''the best draft'' for this arc last year. Which is in line with what he said later about him being the one who fleshed out the story, so there wasn't anything wrong with people claiming that he did the outline in the beginning, but you just want to be obtuse about it. Even then, no one was arguing that it was 100% Toriyama, just the usual for the rest of the Super. What is wrong is claiming the opposite like you is doing when I just showed two statements proving it.

If it's ignoring, then don't engage. People are going to be bias and it isn't on you to tell people from stop being bias. Especially when they write down their reasons why certain story elements don't work and I would have these same complaints even if Toriyama created them. Like I don't like the new Dragon Balls Toriyama created because it feels like lazy plot convenience.

I'm engaging because I'm specifically discussing the Toyo-Tori involved in the arc/previous arcs and not whatever you keep talking about in the rest of the post (like, I don't care about your beef with Vegeta or whether you think Vegetto is fanservice man, it wasn't my point but you clearly can't understand it). I'm not discussing their role in the story, I'm discussing how the idea not coming from Toriyama himself changes jackshit because the same goes for all of Super (and because Toriyama himself continues to use these non-original concepts n his own story, when I said fusion I meant he used Gogeta later, just like he did with God Vegeta). You are just taking the opportunity to cherry pick things and discredit them because you don't like the manga. Like, I don't understand why some of you folks keep following things that you don't like. You don't like the manga or do you want it to die? Just stop following that and follow whatever media you enjoy, rather than continue to come a here and talk crap in threads you don't like. At the same time, don't get mad when people complain about the new movie saying they want it to flop for example, acting as if this is petty attitude (as if these same folks didn't act same way with other media), because some were acting exactly like that. Sounds (and is) hypocritical

That said, for the most part, I was able to guess correctly what came from Toyo because he's write like a fanfic writer.

Yes, because fake evil Goku and Red / Blue haired Super Saiyan forms totally aren't ''fanfic'' ideas...
Toriyama must have stolen this ideas from Toyo or other fanfic writers I guess

"Toyotaro said that Toriyama wrote ''the best draft'' for this arc last year. "

Which is why people thought Toriyama wrote the original draft like he did with the Future Trunks and the Universal Survival Saga. People thought Toriyama wrote an outline and Toyo adapted it while adding his own flair to it. We then learned Toyo wrote the original draft and then sent it Toriyama who made changes to it. So this arc is very similar to Moro, except Toriyama added more stuff to the plot.

"so there wasn't anything wrong with people claiming that he did the outline in the beginning, but you just want to be obtuse about it."

Not really since I detailed what happened. People outright said that Toriyama drafted this story like the other Dragon Ball Super arcs, but that wasn't the case. You can be mad about it and call me obtuse all you want, but that is exactly what happened.

"What is wrong is claiming the opposite like you is doing when I just showed two statements proving it."

Because it's really no different than what happened with Moro. Like Merus being an angel and the angel lore came from Toriyama, but everyone agrees that Moro is Toyo's love child. This arc is more cooperate, but a lot of the massive plot points come from Toyo.

"I'm engaging because I'm specifically discussing the Toyo-Tori involved in the arc/previous arcs and not whatever you keep talking about in the rest of the post (like, I don't care about your beef with Vegeta or whether you think Vegetto is fanservice man, it wasn't my point but you clearly can't understand it). "

You brought up Vegito in discussion and I discussed why it doesn't really work.

"and because Toriyama himself continues to use these non-original concepts n his own story, when I said fusion I meant he used Gogeta later, just like he did with God Vegeta"

Super Saiyan God Vegeta isn't non-original concept since Toriyama outright said any Saiyan can become a Super Saiyan God if they have a righteous heart when Battle of Gods came out and Vegeta said he wanted to become a Super Saiyan God next in the movie. It isn't something Toyo created outright by giving Vegeta the form. And Toriyama was going to used Gogeta for his manga, but when he learned about Fusion Reborn, he changed his mind and created the Potara Fusion because he didn't want to step on the movie's toes.

"You are just taking the opportunity to cherry pick things and discredit them because you don't like the manga."

How am I cherrypicking when stuff Toryama created I don't like for the manga. The biggest issue I have with the manga is Toriyama being a crap editor.

"Like, I don't understand why some of you folks keep following things that you don't like."

I don't follow it. I stopped reading the manga for over a year before I bothered reading again. Heck, I haven't posted in this thread for months. The only reason I know what is going in the manga despite not reading it because since I am a following Dragon Ball, stuff get spoiled for me. Like I learned about the UE spoilers from the Dokkan Battle Discord. And Twitter was filled with people complaining how UI Goku lost to Granola since I follow Herms and get updates from Dragon Ball Hype. So even when I don't follow the manga, it still find out what happens.

"You don't like the manga or do you want it to die?"

How is not liking something means I want it to die?

"Just stop following that and follow whatever media you enjoy"

So the old, 'don't like, don't watched'. Yeah, I honestly hate this mentality since people have the right to follow something and give their opinions. Then again, it seemed to believe not liking a media means the person wants it to die.

"At the same time, don't get mad when people complain about the new movie"

Have you been in the movie thread? I have gotten on people for complaining about the plot for Super Heroes when we don't know the plot yet. Especially the theory that they're hiding the plot because it's thin. I also scoffed at people saying FighterZ looks better because that is 'everything looks like PS2' nonsense. You don't even to go into the thread. My post history speaks for itself.

" they want it to flop for example, acting as if this is petty attitude"

That is petty. People wanting a movie to flop because they don't like is stupid. I said the same thing when people collectively lost their shit when Broly was made canon.

"Yes, because fake evil Goku and Red / Blue haired Super Saiyan forms totally aren't ''fanfic'' ideas..."

Evil Goku is fanfic, but a fake one actually isn't that common. And most Super Saiyan forms before Battle of Gods was based on some version of Super Saiyan 4, not a recolors. I should know since I read almost every Dragon Ball fanfic from 90s to the late 2000s. Even the Evil Goku concept isn't the same since most used the plot line 'Goku hits his head and become Kakarot'. Not, Evil Goku shows up in the future timeline wearing black like an edge lord.

"Toriyama must have stolen this ideas from Toyo or other fanfic writers I guess"

If you read Dragon Ball AF, most of Toriyama's ideas are not reflective outside of 'evil Supreme Kai'. That and isn't ideas that are fanfic. It's the way Toyo executes those ideas and his general writing style that are very common among fanfic writers.

[Skar]

Yes, because fake evil Goku and Red and Blue haired forms totally aren't ''fanfic'' ideas...
Toriyama must have stolen this ideas from Toyo or other fanfic writers I guess

Comparisons to fanfiction are usually meant to be negative but I think modern revivals have a lot in common which might result from many revivals being written by fans of the series growing up who happened to be fired by the studio. Aside from the ideas being used, there's an emphasis on fan service and callbacks to what you'd expect from a fanfic but probably more than from an official sequel. If DBS came out ten years as fanwork, I don't think there's much I could genuinely argue was a really standout concept that I wish was made official. I can still enjoy it since being animated or a manga released more frequently is more than you can get from fanwork that have done something similar. That's my opinion anyway.

[Noah]

So I heard rumors that this last chapter had something like some of the Heaters wished the same thing as Granola (to be the strongest ever) and started stomping everyone and well since this thread had not like twenty pages since my last page, I bet this is fake. I could expect people ranting a lot of how cheap that would be.

Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels. Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.

Please, it's clear that after Broly all of the stuff that came after are Toyotaro stuff only and yet there's people ranting why we don't get any of these "super cool" new chars and forms animated, like Toei or Bandai would care for anything that isn't behind the man himself (Toriyama).

I say let the manga die, it's just Toyo having fun and he can't do much when he is restricted (which imo is a good thing). Just let him work on Heroes again so he can go crazy all he wants.

How about no? Heroes is doing pretty fine without a guy like Toyotaro. I say their directors have better ideas that could be explored in the anime than these lame arcs.

Like somebody said, I don’t care who came up with what, but for sure it doesn’t feel like Toriyama’s original manga and so far, I have a feeling that it is mostly the movies, where his involvement shines.

Ressurection of F would like to have a word with you.

[Hellspawn28]

The next arc wil probably take place after Super Hero and maybe we can have Broly play a supporting role in the story.

[DiscountDabi]

https://twitter.com/yessir167/status/14 ... 54977?s=20

This guy Explains Cerealian Measurement Systems.

[Skar]

Please, it's clear that after Broly all of the stuff that came after are Toyotaro stuff only and yet there's people ranting why we don't get any of these "super cool" new chars and forms animated, like Toei or Bandai would care for anything that isn't behind the man himself (Toriyama).

I understand if someone doesn't like the manga but comments like these sound more like misinformation. Has Toriyama only been passing the time supervising the manga and intends to write completely new outlines for the anime? I'm curious what great original ideas you believe they've been saving.

[Jiren The Alpha]

So I heard rumors that this last chapter had something like some of the Heaters wished the same thing as Granola (to be the strongest ever) and started stomping everyone and well since this thread had not like twenty pages since my last page, I bet this is fake. I could expect people ranting a lot of how cheap that would be.

Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels. Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.

Please, it's clear that after Broly all of the stuff that came after are Toyotaro stuff only and yet there's people ranting why we don't get any of these "super cool" new chars and forms animated, like Toei or Bandai would care for anything that isn't behind the man himself (Toriyama).

I say let the manga die, it's just Toyo having fun and he can't do much when he is restricted (which imo is a good thing). Just let him work on Heroes again so he can go crazy all he wants.

How about no? Heroes is doing pretty fine without a guy like Toyotaro. I say their directors have better ideas that could be explored in the anime than these lame arcs.

Like somebody said, I don’t care who came up with what, but for sure it doesn’t feel like Toriyama’s original manga and so far, I have a feeling that it is mostly the movies, where his involvement shines.

Ressurection of F would like to have a word with you.

The movie that made more then BOG wants to have a word with him? What an honor

[PurestEvil]

https://twitter.com/yessir167/status/14 ... 54977?s=20

This guy Explains Cerealian Measurement Systems.

So a chia-seed is like a cubit?

[Cipher]

When Granola first started, there were people who outright said Toriyama wrote it or at least did the outline like he did for most of Super.

He did do the outline “like he did for most of Super.” That’s one of the things we’ve known explicitly about it the whole time. He wrote the final outline and plot for the arc, including his own substantial narrative additions to the character and premise pitch Toyotaro and Uchida settled on.

His fleshing out someone else’s pitch into his own outline? That’s no different than the Future Trunks arc or Broly.

The final version including elements that didn’t come from his own outline originally? No different from Vegetto or Kale.

Other than Toyotaro potentially being in a more ideative role early on, little is substantially different about the invention of this arc from the first three of Super. The idea of a singularly Toriyama Super, outside of his movie scripts (and even then, the movies are collaborative) has only ever been a phantom.

[DiscountDabi]

https://twitter.com/yessir167/status/14 ... 54977?s=20

This guy Explains Cerealian Measurement Systems.

So a chia-seed is like a cubit?

Give or take a few decimals yeah.

[HeroR]

When Granola first started, there were people who outright said Toriyama wrote it or at least did the outline like he did for most of Super.

He did do the outline “like he did for most of Super.” That’s one of the things we’ve known explicitly about it the whole time. He wrote the final outline and plot for the arc, including his own substantial narrative additions to the character and premise pitch Toyotaro and Uchida settled on.

His fleshing out someone else’s pitch into his own outline? That’s no different than the Future Trunks arc or Broly.

The final version including elements that didn’t come from his own outline originally? No different from Vegetto or Kale.

Other than Toyotaro potentially being in a more ideative role early on, little is substantially different about the invention of this arc from the first three of Super. The idea of a singularly Toriyama Super, outside of his movie scripts (and even then, the movies are collaborative) has only ever been a phantom.

It was more, Toyo wrote the first draft and Toriyama did the second draft. It wasn't like the other Dragon Ball Super arcs where the outline originally came from Toriyama with Toei and Toyo filling the blanks which is what I'm saying.

And I outright said Super is a team effect. Even the movies have stuff not from Toriyama like Super Saiyan Full Power.