Giran Beat Goku - Tenkaichi Rulings

[Krillin1994]

I don't really see too much discussion around this topic really, but what are people's thoughts on allowing Goku to use Nimbus during his quarter final match vs Giran.

I would say it is double the grounds for a loss, since it was outside help and he also was making solid contact with it so arguably touching it is a ringout (different to characters jumping up to height of intangible clouds)

Then we have the return of his tail, but without it he lacked the strength to break free from his gum.

I always found this so shocking how totally Goku was defeated here

We have various other instances of cheating going on with leniencies and strictness in reaction to it depending on the story. (going to ignore inconsistent ring out counting)

- Krillin using underwear in the Jackie Chun fight, bringing extra outside equipment in okay? guess clothing not classed as a weapon
- Oozaru Goku destroying the building behind the ring - him touching out of bounds there.
- Wolfman using knife and getting DQ'ed = Fair judgment
- Goku Grabbing Roshi's glasses during fight with Tien. Must've made contact outside the ring to do so.
- Tien's psychic cheating obviously goes unpunished along with rigging the matchups for 22nd and 23d Tournaments.
- Cyborg Tao = obviously DQ'ed for knife but arguably surprised was allowed to compete with all the advantages of being half metal and armoured?
- Then during 25th Obviously we end up with the battle royale but before that it seems the competitors who left are DQ'ed but surely before that Yamu and Spopovich would've been DQ'ed at that point for teaming up on Gohan and using a sharp object to pierce him. Yet as far as I can recall they only ever comment on the fighters leaving.

I have maybe missed other controversial interpretations of rulings, but do any of these bug you, or are you okay with them all of them in terms of the story

[Lionel]

I would say intention is important. Most of the examples you cited were deliberately perpetrated by the contestant though in the case of Oozaru Goku and Tenshinhan with the paralysis those were externally created situations which the participant didn't intend to have happen.

[Koitsukai]

I'd argue Kintoun isn't a reason to get DQ'd. It's just a cloud, he grabbed a crazy cloud, that probably is just air and small drops of water, and some mystical component. Later on, we'd see people flying and just dancing around clouds, so is it that different?

I mean, if for some reason the clouds were really low and participants could touch them, they shouldn't be disqualified for doing so, they would be just manipulating air and water, and that isn't against the rules. Too bad if the opponent cannot interact with those elements as great as Goku.

[Krillin1994]

I'd argue Kintoun isn't a reason to get DQ'd. It's just a cloud, he grabbed a crazy cloud, that probably is just air and small drops of water, and some mystical component. Later on, we'd see people flying and just dancing around clouds, so is it that different?

I mean, if for some reason the clouds were really low and participants could touch them, they shouldn't be disqualified for doing so, they would be just manipulating air and water, and that isn't against the rules. Too bad if the opponent cannot interact with those elements as great as Goku.

I mean its clearly not a normal cloud, its a tool that responds to Goku's call,

he isn't really manipulating the water and air himself, he has no clue to do that, its a vehicle to him. Yet next time he touches a vehicle it counts as a ring out vs Tien

[miguelnuva1]

Goku was told if he used Nimbus again he would be DQ'ed because while it was a natural cloud it was still under his control. The Nimbus rule was created because of Goku therefore when he used the Nimbus it wasn't a loss.

[Darkprince410]

I mean, if we're also going to go by rules that weren't enforced, Kuririn should have won against Jackie Chun in the 21st Budoukai, as he left the ring prior to the 10 count ending. Even though Kuririn didn't end up getting up by the end of the count, the count is what determines whether someone is incapable of continuing the fight, so until the count ends, they're still counted as competing. So Jackie would have lost by going out of bounds before Kuririn was considered out.

It's just that the rules are given a fair amount of looking the other way just for the sake of story.

[Anonymous Friend]

Goku was told if he used Nimbus again he would be DQ'ed because while it was a natural cloud it was still under his control. The Nimbus rule was created because of Goku therefore when he used the Nimbus it wasn't a loss.

If we go deeper, is the ringout rule landing outside of the ring? The "landing" being implied being on the "ground" outside the ring, stepping outside the ring, and so forth. It seems like hanging from the stone/brick backboard/wall structure doesn't count, especially with so many contestants being knocked/thrown into it. And for some reason i remember contestants stepping on spectators heads.

I can totally see letting the use of nimbus be a one time thing, as it could be considered breaking the spirit of the rule without actually breaking the rule itself.

Also, Goku v Ma junior had the ring itself completely destroyed, but they allowed the fight to continue as long as they stayed withing the bounds of where the ring would be.

[FoolsGil]

Goku should have been DQ'd, and Krillin should have been DQ'd as well.

But you know who shouldn't have been DQ'd? Tao against Tenshinhan. He could use Giran's statement, and point out that as a Cyborg, he can store quite various things inside of himself.

[Darkprince410]

Goku should have been DQ'd, and Krillin should have been DQ'd as well.

But you know who shouldn't have been DQ'd? Tao against Tenshinhan. He could use Giran's statement, and point out that as a Cyborg, he can store quite various things inside of himself.

I think the counterargument could be made of something that is truly natural to them vs. something that's artificial in nature