Unpopular DB opinions

[MasenkoHA]

Hacchan was mostly a gag character. I don't think that there was supposed to be much more going on with him than what we saw.

I can't really imagine #8 replacing #16 in the Cell saga. Not without some kind of redesign or character development. Things are too serious at that point to have a goofy character like him hanging around the battlefield or whatever.

This. His Boris Karloff Frankenstein design would have been more distracting than anything.


Also the giant leaps in logic of how he went from definitely being weaker than Piccolo Daimao to stronger than Imperfect Cell when he’s a pacifist and doesn’t have the “I trained in my off time” handwave that fans already hated for Freeza and #17

Not to mention a character whose basically been absent for 5-6 years in real time being brought back just to be killed off really isn’t anymore impactful than a character who was introduced in the arc being killed off in the same arc.

Gohan: Oh no Hachan! The cyborg my dad met as a kid and never talked about before has been killed! [Screams in Super Saiyan 2]

Regarding his strength, the simple explanation in this hypothetical scenario would be that Dr. Gero reprogrammed him and made him stronger.

That just begs the question of why he would bother.

[MyVisionity]

This. His Boris Karloff Frankenstein design would have been more distracting than anything.


Also the giant leaps in logic of how he went from definitely being weaker than Piccolo Daimao to stronger than Imperfect Cell when he’s a pacifist and doesn’t have the “I trained in my off time” handwave that fans already hated for Freeza and #17

Not to mention a character whose basically been absent for 5-6 years in real time being brought back just to be killed off really isn’t anymore impactful than a character who was introduced in the arc being killed off in the same arc.

Gohan: Oh no Hachan! The cyborg my dad met as a kid and never talked about before has been killed! [Screams in Super Saiyan 2]

Regarding his strength, the simple explanation in this hypothetical scenario would be that Dr. Gero reprogrammed him and made him stronger.

That just begs the question of why he would bother.

Maybe that's where the "dead son" angle could come into play.

[NickLord]

This isn't really an unpopular opinion about DB but rather an unpopular opinion about how most of the community critiques DB.

Most of the fandom has no real sense of objectively when it comes to praising or criticizing the series, and that includes many DB youtubers. Whether it be assuming something is bad just because it pisses them off or offends them (like MisureFusion's Majin Vegeta rant), to having dumb complaints about characters based on false assumptions about them, to thinking a fight is good or bad just because of the characters involved, etc.

[Skar]

This isn't really an unpopular opinion about DB but rather an unpopular opinion about how most of the community critiques DB.

Most of the fandom has no real sense of objectively when it comes to praising or criticizing the series, and that includes many DB youtubers. Whether it be assuming something is bad just because it pisses them off or offends them (like MisureFusion's Majin Vegeta rant), to having dumb complaints about characters based on false assumptions about them, to thinking a fight is good or bad just because of the characters involved, etc.

Could you give an example of this objectivity? No one here or on YouTube is a professional critic and it's all just the opinions of longtime fans.

[NickLord]

This isn't really an unpopular opinion about DB but rather an unpopular opinion about how most of the community critiques DB.

Most of the fandom has no real sense of objectively when it comes to praising or criticizing the series, and that includes many DB youtubers. Whether it be assuming something is bad just because it pisses them off or offends them (like MisureFusion's Majin Vegeta rant), to having dumb complaints about characters based on false assumptions about them, to thinking a fight is good or bad just because of the characters involved, etc.

Could you give an example of this objectivity? No one here or on YouTube is a professional critic and it's all just the opinions of longtime fans.

You don't need to be a professional critic to have an objective view on something, just like how you don't to be taught what good singing is to know whether or not a person is a good of bad singer.

[ABED]

Critics don't have objective points of view. They simply can articulate their view well and if they are good, have a well of industry knowledge to draw from

[Skar]

You don't need to be a professional critic to have an objective view on something, just like how you don't to be taught what good singing is to know whether or not a person is a good of bad singer.

Well what's an example of an objective view? I think all opinions are subjective especially if it comes down to personal preference. I don't need to declare something as objectively bad to point out that I personally didn't like it or thought it could've been handled better but could still respect if someone else liked it.

[jjgp1112]

This isn't really an unpopular opinion about DB but rather an unpopular opinion about how most of the community critiques DB.

Most of the fandom has no real sense of objectively when it comes to praising or criticizing the series, and that includes many DB youtubers. Whether it be assuming something is bad just because it pisses them off or offends them (like MisureFusion's Majin Vegeta rant), to having dumb complaints about characters based on false assumptions about them, to thinking a fight is good or bad just because of the characters involved, etc.

Could you give an example of this objectivity? No one here or on YouTube is a professional critic and it's all just the opinions of longtime fans.

You don't need to be a professional critic to have an objective view on something, just like how you don't to be taught what good singing is to know whether or not a person is a good of bad singer.

Opinions on everything beyond technical craft are inherently subjective - and even craft can be a matter of interpretation when taking into consideration the goal and purpose of the work along with your personal standards/expectations.

[MyVisionity]

Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean you don't like it and just because you like something doesn't mean you think it's good. A declaration of quality and personal preference are two different things.

[jjgp1112]

Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean you don't like it and just because you like something doesn't mean you think it's good. A declaration of quality and personal preference are two different things.

Eh, honestly the more I go on the more I think that's just a matter of people not having enough confidence in their opinions and feeling, whether they're aware of it or not, beholden to tastemakers or gatekeepers. When most people are giving their opinions, personal preference and declaration of quality tend to be mixed and matched.

[Skar]

Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean you don't like it and just because you like something doesn't mean you think it's good. A declaration of quality and personal preference are two different things.

Well yeah but both are still opinions. I just meant that it's not really necessary to declare the quality. At the end of the day, opinions aren't changing anything so it was more about engaging with other fans. Declaration of quality usually leads to some people taking it the wrong way like assuming it's looking down on their opinion or taste. It's not really furthering the discussion.

[NickLord]

The blatant relativism in the responses is exactly the thing I'm criticizing. "That's just your opinion bro" is not a real argument because it says nothing about whether something is true, false, good or bad.

If there was no such thing as objective reality or objective quality then people wouldn't even have subjective experiences of anything at all, because being able to experience something at all implies its real existence on some level.

You don't need to be taught Film Theory to know that The Room by Tommy Wiseau is a hilariously bad movie for example

Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean you don't like it and just because you like something doesn't mean you think it's good. A declaration of quality and personal preference are two different things.

.

Exactly. For instance, I'm not a fan of Mr. Satan but I can see that he was very well written in the Buu saga (arguably the best written character of that arc). In contrast, I'm a fan of Z Broly but I know full well that his writing in the Z movies is pretty bad lol. This is because I can distinguish between objective facts and subjective feelings.

[Skar]

If there was no such thing as objective reality or objective quality then people wouldn't even have subjective experiences of anything at all, because being able to experience something at all implies its real existence on some level.

I'm assuming your original comment relates to one of the threads you were participating in. Obviously there's objectivity in the world but most of what's discussed here are opinions. So I could better understand what you mean could you give an example of an objective reality you brought up in one of these threads that wasn't your own opinion?

[MasenkoHA]

You don't need to be taught Film Theory to know that The Room by Tommy Wiseau is a hilariously bad movie for example

The Room is incompetent on a technical level so it’s not really the best example.

Exactly. For instance, I'm not a fan of Mr. Satan but I can see that he was very well written in the Buu saga (arguably the best written character of that arc).

I’m not sure how he was well written at least compared to any other character in that arc.

In contrast, I'm a fan of Z Broly but I know full well that his writing in the Z movies is pretty bad lol. This is because I can distinguish between objective facts and subjective feelings.

I’m not a fan of Z Broly either and think he’s poorly done but it’s not some sort of objective truth. Me finding him bland and uninteresting is purely subjective. There is no failure in the writing with Broly’ character

[Cursed Lemon]

I'd argue that the biggest hurdle in discussing things like the relative goodness/badness of a piece of media is that so many people are there are absolutely terrible at explaining why they do or don't like something. Like, garbage-tier levels of introspection.

[LoganForkHands73]

Talk of objective quality gets on my nerves. At the end of the day, who the hell decides these universal quality standards? There's nothing measurable or provable about something being "good" or "bad", they're totally subjective value judgments. I could call The Room a great movie*, am I "objectively wrong" for saying that? If so, how can I be proven wrong? The most you can call me is an idiot. And I would reply that you smell.

*unironically, I think it is pretty great for the amount of influence it's had on pop culture and the joy it's brought to people, enough for it to still run regularly in some theatres

[Majin Buu]

Most of the fandom has no real sense of objectively when it comes to praising or criticizing the series, and that includes many DB youtubers. Whether it be assuming something is bad just because it pisses them off or offends them (like MisureFusion's Majin Vegeta rant), to having dumb complaints about characters based on false assumptions about them, to thinking a fight is good or bad just because of the characters involved, etc.

Honestly, this reads like something someone would write after watching a Youtuber say a bunch of stuff they don't agree with. Not saying that's the case here, but your complaints come off like you're trying to discredit opinions you don't agree with by claiming that they lack "objectivity".

People claiming "objectivity" when it comes to opinions on media often feel like they're just trying to disguise their subjective opinions as facts.

[MasenkoHA]

People claiming "objectivity" when it comes to opinions on media often feel like they're just trying to disguise their subjective opinions as facts.

This is what it usually ends up being.

[ABED]

There is objective reality, but tastes in art is absolutely subjective. How do you even go about proving something is good? What are the standards?

[pixie_misa]

I'm sure Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB, hell the entirety of Hollywood will have a huge check waiting for the first person to come up with a reliable Objective Quality Metric for film, movies, tv, books, etc.