Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 109 - GT 36-40

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 109 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

The Baby arc comes to an end.

Happy Valentine's Day everyone!

Previous thread: Week 108 (GT 31-35)
Next thread: Week 110 (GT 41, TV Special, 42-43)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 480 - An Invincible Monster?! The Evil Ōzaru, Baby (GT episode 36)
Ocean dub title: Baby Transforms!
Funimation dub title: The Tuffle Gorilla Attacks
Originally aired 5th of February 1997
Written by: Atsushi Maekawa
Episode director: Takahiro Imamura
Animation supervisor: Noboru Koizumi

Baby tries to kill a planet.

Trivia:

Spoiler:

• With this episode, we've officially overtaken the Kanzenshuu podcast's GT Review of Awesomeness. Take that, VegettoEX!
• Goku got Namek destroyed when he fought Freeza, North Kaio's planet when he fought Cell, Earth when he fought Boo, and here he sets his sights on the Kaioshin realm (which he previously wrecked in the Boo Arc). He abandons this plan after forming it, though.
• Elder Kaioshin implies Baby in his Oozaru form is stronger than Super Saiyan 4 in terms of raw physical strength, but Goku says the opposite in the very next scene.
• This episode reuses an unusually high number of animation sequences, likely to ease the animation workload for the rest of the Baby vs Goku fight in the surrounding episodes.

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Episode 481 - Incredible!! Baby and Goku’s Double Knockout!! (GT episode 37)
Ocean dub title: Old Kai's Last and Choicest Resort!
Funimation dub title: Old Kai's Last Stand
Originally aired 12th of February 1997
Written by: Shinobu Ōito
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Yūji Hakamada

Goku and Baby take a nap.

Trivia:

Spoiler:

• This episode marks the first time the Ocean dubs would use "Hades" to refer to hell.
• Presumably after the Garlic Jr. fiasco, God saved a stash of the sacred water in a more accessible area of the lookout. That is, assuming the sacred water he uses here is the same as the one that cured people of the evil mist Garlic Jr. unleashed.
• This episode is the first time Trunks has ever spoken with Kaioshin.
• This episode turned 25 years old on Saturday 12th of February, 2022 (which was two days ago at the time this Trivia was written).

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Episode 482 - With Everyone’s Strength… Super Saiyan 4 is Revived (GT episode 38)
Ocean dub title: The Resurrection of the Super-Saiyan 4 Through Everyone's Powers.
Funimation dub title: Family Bonds
Originally aired 19th of February 1997
Written by: Shinobu Ōito
Episode director: Hidehiko Kadota
Animation supervisor: Kazuya Hisada

Goku's latest transformation, the Super Saiyan 4, the fourth iteration in the Super Saiyan line of transformations (fifth if you count Trunks's muscular form, sixth if you count Vegeta's semi-muscular form, seventh if you count Gold Oozaru, eighth if you count the False Super Saiyan from the movies), has its full power revived in Goku's body due to the cooperation of his friends and family who donate their energy to him to allow him to continue fighting the villain of this story arc, known as Baby.

Meanwhile, Baby gets indigestion.

Trivia:

Spoiler:

• The thing the title of the episode states and that I riffed on in my plot summary is somewhat suspiciously similar to the Super Saiyan God ritual from 2013's Battle of Gods. Both involve Saiyans surrounding the focal Saiyan in a circle as part of a ritual to help them ascend to the form of Super Saiyan above 3, which is coloured red.
• The Ocean dub dialogue refers to Tenshinhan's technique that causes a very bright flash of light as "Light of the Sun", a departure from the old Funimation name "Solar Flare". The Japanese attack name, Taiyoken, translates to "Fist of the Sun". Close enough, I guess!
• Baby's pose in the sky when he's charging his failed attack while Goku is being given power is the same pose Vegeta took when charging his Galick Gun while fighting Goku in the Saiyan arc.
• Funimation called this episode Family Bonds, even though Goku and Trunks aren't related. It's possibly referring to Baby's ritual instead, but that was in the previous episode.
• Despite Goku specifically calling for Super Saiyan power, Pan still doesn't go Super Saiyan. It's possible that he meant "a super Saiyan power", which was used from time-to-time before the famous form appeared.

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Episode 483 - This is the End! At Last, Baby’s Annihilation (GT episode 39)
Ocean dub title: Baby's Big Finale
Funimation dub title: Baby Put to Rest
Originally aired 26th of February 1997
Written by: Junki Takegami
Episode director: Kazuhito Kikuchi
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

What sick man sends Baby to fight Goku?

Trivia:

Spoiler:

• It seems Baby learned the Taiyoken from Goku using it against him.
• Despite Goku looking totally different in his Super Saiyan 4 form, Vegeta recognises him and smiles at him. Later episodes imply Vegeta retained his memories of what Baby was doing with his body, so this is one possible explanation (another is he recognised his ki). Something similar happened in the anime's Namek Arc, with Vegeta (uncharacteristically at the time) approving of seeing Goku having reached the Super Saiyan form.
  • Mr. Popo, however, doesn't have any memories from when he was possessed by Baby. On the other hand, Dende has a hazy memory of what he did while possessed, so it seems to vary from person to person, and of course Baby's eggs brainwashing someone and him fully hijacking someone's body aren't identical processes.
• Goku confirms he can go Super Saiyan 4 any time now that he's transformed once. This is a contrast to previous forms, which took a lot of effort at first but got easier the more it was done.
• The time between Goku being wished to childhood and the defeat of Baby is two weeks shy of one year.

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Episode 484 - The Earth Explodes!! Piccolo’s Grave Decision (GT episode 40)
Ocean dub title: Piccolo's Ultimate Sacrifice
Funimation dub title: Piccolo's Decision
Originally aired 5th of March 1997
Written by: Atsushi Maekawa
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Tadayoshi Yamamuro

The earth explodes like a 1990 DOS game.

Trivia:

Spoiler:

• Pan says it took them nine months in all to find all the Dark Dragon Balls. It's not completely clear where the extra two and a half months come in to take us to two weeks shy of a year since the wish.
• This is Vegeta's second time being behind a plan to save all the people of Earth.
• When Goku is amazed at Vegeta's plan, Vegeta explains he's used to moving around to lots of different planets, in the time before he came to Earth.
• They really could have used Mr. Satan in Don't Look Up.
• This is the first time we've seen Oolong since DBZ Episode 291.
• This is chronologically the latest time the Pilaf gang has appeared. They would eventually return in Battle of Gods and Super, at an earlier point in time, de-aged into children. This also means it's the last time we see them in the "classic era".
• This is the first time Piccolo has seen Goku since DBZ 291.
• Piccolo notes that the Dragon Balls' existence is a danger to the universe. This foreshadows the Evil Dragons Arc.
• Recurring death tallies:
  • River fish: 8 + the entire species, possibly twice (it's unclear if marine life was saved as well)
  • Piccolo: 4
  • Chaozu: 3
  • Kuririn: 3
  • Earth: 2
  • Vegeta: 2
  • Son Goku: 2
  • Tenshinhan: 2
  • Roshi: 2
  • Yamucha: 2
  • The moon: 2
• This episode features the final appearance of Porunga to date.

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Trivia written by Robo with input from KBABZ. Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide.

[Koitsukai]

Do we know what happened to the New Vegeta-sei? Earth blows up, the new planet is used as a station, then the Earth is wished back... and then what? is this big red planet still around? it is never seen or mentioned again.

Not even when Ih Shenron is consuming the planet, or when the fuel for the suppa genki dama is coming to Earth from space.

[Robo4900]

Do we know what happened to the New Vegeta-sei? Earth blows up, the new planet is used as a station, then the Earth is wished back... and then what? is this big red planet still around? it is never seen or mentioned again.

Not even when Ih Shenron is consuming the planet, or when the fuel for the suppa genki dama is coming to Earth from space.

You mean the Tsufurian planet? I don't think Baby called it "Planet New Vegeta"

I mean, does it really make a huge difference if the earth's solar system has a new planet? Dragon Ball also blew up the moon a few times, so I don't think this is a huge stretch.
But yeah, I imagine it's still around. Why not.

Also, "Ih Shenron" is a weird one. Surely you mean Ii Shinron or Yi Xing Long? (Or perhaps a more straightforwardly phonetic version like Ee Shinron or Ee Shing Long?)

[MyVisionity]

Baby's defeat was pretty weak, but also kinda funny. I like how he was suddenly over the whole thing, including Bulma. Nothing about any future plans or revenge, just runs away and gets blasted into the sun lol.

I liked the Namu cameo in episode 40.

It looks like the Pilaf Gang was living in the wreckage of their old headquarters when Goku picked them up.

The Piccolo thing is shitty for the character, but it was well done. I'm glad that he at least got some cool moments. Really the whole episode was crafted well, and better than the final battle with Baby. I liked that moment between Gohan and Goku at the end. GT does good with the sentimental character stuff.

To me, it kinda feels like this is where GT comes to an end, creatively speaking. The next arc is essentially filler before the final arc, which is really less about GT and more about finishing off the franchise entirely. I think that there was some decent potential for future storylines after the Baby arc, had plans been different and had the writers been more motivated. At any rate, when I think of DBGT, I think of episodes 1 - 40.

Also, "Ih Shenron" is a weird one. Surely you mean Ii Shinron or Yi Xing Long? (Or perhaps a more straightforwardly phonetic version like Ee Shinron or Ee Shing Long?)

"Ih" is a common romanization for an elongated i. Also I think that's his official name in at least one international version.

[WittyUsername]

If Baby were smart, he would’ve taken Bulma with him, so Goku would be less willing to fire on his ship. Aside from that, the explanation for why Baby gets forced out of Vegeta’s body doesn’t make much sense. He’s too tall or something?

Interesting that it’s always been a somewhat persistent rumor that the show was supposed to end with episode 40, when I don’t think there’s been any real statement to support that. For whatever reason, Dragon Ball fans seem to love latching on to unsubstantiated rumors about when the story was intended to end.

[MyVisionity]

Interesting that it’s always been a somewhat persistent rumor that the show was supposed to end with episode 40, when I don’t think there’s been any real statement to support that.

I have never heard this rumor before, but in retrospect I can understand why fans would believe it. Everything wraps up so neatly in episode 40, and everything after episode 40 feels at odds with what GT could have been. It turns and goes into a completely different direction.

[Koitsukai]

Do we know what happened to the New Vegeta-sei? Earth blows up, the new planet is used as a station, then the Earth is wished back... and then what? is this big red planet still around? it is never seen or mentioned again.

Not even when Ih Shenron is consuming the planet, or when the fuel for the suppa genki dama is coming to Earth from space.

You mean the Tsufurian planet? I don't think Baby called it "Planet New Vegeta"

I mean, does it really make a huge difference if the earth's solar system has a new planet? Dragon Ball also blew up the moon a few times, so I don't think this is a huge stretch.
But yeah, I imagine it's still around. Why not.

Also, "Ih Shenron" is a weird one. Surely you mean Ii Shinron or Yi Xing Long? (Or perhaps a more straightforwardly phonetic version like Ee Shinron or Ee Shing Long?)

I meant, was the red planet ever seen again, maybe in some take including the entire Earth seen from space or something in the next arcs? like did the producers forget about the planet still being there? it's a piece of trivia the question I guess.

Ii Shinron would be the most phonetically accurate and also the original name of the dragon in japanese, well Xing Long is, Shinron would be its japanization. Ih is also a common romanization, and Shenron instead of Shinron is also used in pretty much every videogame, funnily enough, the kanji are not the same. Though, the scene I was referring to was after eating the DBs, so he was Omega already.


Earth going boom after Baby's defeat is fantastic, finally death is death. Getting rid of Piccolo, even if he makes a cameo in the following arc, was a bold move. Thank Dende, Uchiyama wasn't in charge of this one.
He already made the final fight of the arc awful and boring. I'm turned off by fights that are basically ki attacks vs ki attacks, too Saint Seiya-y for my taste.

When people say Uub was wasted, I cannot help but remember his input in taking out Baby... he was basically a cookie that was already on the floor when Baby ate it. He paid the prize for fighting a guy only Goku had exclusiveness to defeat, he was useful I guess, but still... That being said, everybody trying to help a depleted SS4 Goku vs Baby was cool. Adult Gotenks would've been cool to see show up and fail. Adult Gotenks and Uub vs Baby would've been awesome. Goku recovering his power could've been done in a different way without the need of the Super Saiyan Four Ritual.

Boy, the Super Divine Water part was not interesting to me at all, the worst part of the double KO was what took place while they were out. It's difficult to make an episode entertaining when both, the MC and the antagonist are out of comission. I don't think the fight needed another break.

The first SS4 vs Ohzaru fight to me is the best fight in GT. Goku running up Baby's hairy arms, grabbing his finger, throwing him around, that's what I missed for the final fight, some fists. Baby tanking a KKx10, attacking Earth and forcing Goku to stand before it and receive the second attack, man I rememeber the first time I watched that.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think episode 40 would have worked well as a conclusion to GT, much less the whole series. Even though Piccolo's loss was meaningful in that he sacrificed himself so that the universe would be free from the danger of the black star Dragon Balls he wasn't a part of the story until about 100 episodes in, which makes it feel like the end of a character arc, but still leaving something to be desired in the story. The Evil Dragons was a more fitting and natural conclusion because we see the consequences of overuse of the one thing Goku and his friends had been using since the beginning of the series.

[MyVisionity]

I don't think episode 40 would have worked well as a conclusion to GT, much less the whole series. The Evil Dragons was a more fitting and natural conclusion because we see the consequences of overuse of the one thing Goku and his friends had been using since the beginning of the series.

I agree that episode 40 wouldn't work as a conclusion to anything. Not GT because it was only 40 episodes and one saga, and not the entirety of DB because it lacks the weight and finality that a complete ending would deserve.

The problem is that we never saw GT's potential realized outside of these first 40 episodes. Everything afterwards was mostly just a race to the finish line.

I would have liked to see what the show could have become post-episode 40 had the producers truly desired to continue forwards. To see what kind of stories they could do after Baby. I think there were some possibilities, had the series been interested.

Even though Piccolo's loss was meaningful in that he sacrificed himself so that the universe would be free from the danger of the black star Dragon Balls he wasn't a part of the story until about 100 episodes in, which makes it feel like the end of a character arc, but still leaving something to be desired in the story.

Piccolo's character arc was over and done with in the Cell arc. I thought that while his fate in GT was heartfelt and somewhat meaningful, it was ultimately irrelevant and unnecessary in the scheme of things.

[Koitsukai]

I had to rewatch the first round of GA Baby vs Goku.
I'm glad Uchiyama wasn't in charge of shading Goku grabbing Baby's finger and running down his body. It looks so great.

We are so used to fights on Earth on a bright shiny day that the new setting is refreshing, red sky and the ruins of the replica of an ancient city next to a pit... with Earth in the background!
Baby shooting that Gyaric Ho against Earth was greatly done, I didn't remember he wasn't facing Earth, he just turns around and fuck you Goku. I've already talked about the 2nd coolest kamehameha Goku's ever done, if it would've worked (better) I would have it above the one against Kefla.

My little piece of trivia: the same planet that was destroyed by a drop of ki from 1st form Freeza, now tanked Baby's Great Revenge Desuboru at point blank. The saiyan's home planet got a zenkai boost.

[90sDBZ]

I always thought it was strange how Vegeta is immediately fine after Baby leaves him, and doesn't get given the Sacred Water like everyone else. It's also never explained how Baby infected the entire population in such a short timespan. He must have had another method than just jumping into everyone individually.

[WittyUsername]

I always thought it was strange how Vegeta is immediately fine after Baby leaves him, and doesn't get given the Sacred Water like everyone else. It's also never explained how Baby infected the entire population in such a short timespan. He must have had another method than just jumping into everyone individually.

Baby clearly chose Vegeta to be his permanent host, so I guess he wasn’t given an egg.

[Robo4900]

I always thought it was strange how Vegeta is immediately fine after Baby leaves him, and doesn't get given the Sacred Water like everyone else. It's also never explained how Baby infected the entire population in such a short timespan. He must have had another method than just jumping into everyone individually.

Baby clearly chose Vegeta to be his permanent host, so I guess he wasn’t given an egg.

Or the egg wasn't active yet and either they purified him later or Baby dying killed all the eggs too.

[WittyUsername]

I always thought it was strange how Vegeta is immediately fine after Baby leaves him, and doesn't get given the Sacred Water like everyone else. It's also never explained how Baby infected the entire population in such a short timespan. He must have had another method than just jumping into everyone individually.

Baby clearly chose Vegeta to be his permanent host, so I guess he wasn’t given an egg.

Or the egg wasn't active yet and either they purified him later or Baby dying killed all the eggs too.

Killing Baby didn’t undo the brainwashing on everyone he infected, so that wouldn’t make much sense.

[MyVisionity]

Baby clearly chose Vegeta to be his permanent host, so I guess he wasn’t given an egg.

Or the egg wasn't active yet and either they purified him later or Baby dying killed all the eggs too.

Killing Baby didn’t undo the brainwashing on everyone he infected, so that wouldn’t make much sense.

Yes but they were already infected, meaning the eggs had already hatched and reached their brains. Vegeta may not have been infected yet. It takes some time. So Baby's death could have destroyed the egg.

[Koitsukai]

I think when Baby possessed Vegeta, he didn't lay an egg, he was just driving his body and that was it, he didn't exit his body after becoming Vegeta Baby 2, so probably never planned on leaving it. Perhaps he was going to, but ended up doing it in a rush and couldn't be bothered with leaving an egg.

Also, just like his body was enlarged when he turned into Ohzaru, maybe the eggs suffered the same fate and just like Baby couldn't fit anymore when he returned back to normal, the eggs may have been crushed. This sounds way too complex for DB, so I'm guessing Vegeta was just used as the main host, without eggs being laid inside of him for whatever reason.

[WittyUsername]

I always thought it was pretty apparent that Baby intended for Vegeta to be his main host.

[90sDBZ]

It's just that Baby would've had to have left Vegeta's body at some point to infect the rest of the Earth. Either that or he had some other means of infection that we're not shown.

[WittyUsername]

It's just that Baby would've had to have left Vegeta's body at some point to infect the rest of the Earth. Either that or he had some other means of infection that we're not shown.

I was under the impression that he had some airborne method of infecting people.

[Robo4900]

It's worth considering that Vegeta was probably fed some of the water offscreen as a precaution anyway. Done and dusted.