Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread

[Gt91]

fucking swear... Goku is tricking Gas to get to Broly's planet or to Beerus. LOL

I thought the same thing ahaha

[ChronoTwigger]

And the conflict was exactly about?
Beig unable to defeat him?
What a conflict...

[Psykomatik]

And the conflict was exactly about?
Beig unable to defeat him?
What a conflict...

The fact he doesn't know himself.

[Magnificent Ponta]

People are thinking of Broly just because of his appearance in Super Hero, but he doesn't fit in this arc in any obvious way. So I don't think we're going to Vampa. Not ultimately, anyway...

Spoiler:

...I think we're going to Earth.

Gas is apparently going to taunt Goku over his fighting spirit, comparing it unfavourably with a Bardock who was absolutely determined to win, and they've both verbally sparred over the idea that Goku doesn't even know who he really is because he doesn't know enough about his own background etc. The natural place for Goku's riposte to pan out is on Earth - that's the place that made Goku who he really is, and it's also the likeliest motivating factor to give Goku the determination to win, like Bardock had.

Also, consider all the talk in the previous chapters about whether or not there's anyone to protect, or the concept of protection more generally: Ch. 71 - Goku notes Earth isn't in danger, so whatever comes next is fine; Ch. 74 - Vegeta notes there's no-one to protect, so he can just focus on the fighting as his "happy place"; Ch. 72-75 - There's the contrast between Vegeta seeking to take damage and Goku's Ultra Instinct being automatically self-protective; Granolah gets his newfound power in a moment where Vegeta challenges him to protect the planet by putting himself in the way of his Hakai; Ch. 76 - Goku develops protection against Granolah's precision strikes, also protecting Vegeta in the process; Vegeta tells Goku he'll only work with him if they both have something to protect, which isn't the case here; and Granolah gets triggered by the need to protect the Suga-jin when the fight comes to their city; Ch. 77 - Bardock decides instinctively to protect the last Cerealians because they remind him of Kakarot and Gine (and Toriyama has already characterised him as a person who has built his own reputation among Saiyans as someone who protects his teammates, particularly Gine); and whatever else you might care to dredge up - even the Heeters obliquely answer the idea of protection, insofar as it has been revealed that Elec has been protecting Gas from himself.

Given the foregoing, Earth is the likeliest place to go. And it also speaks to what Goku's dilemma is now: certainly die to Gas in the fight if he lets it take its course, or imperil Earth in hopes that it'll give him the determination to win?

Incidentally, there you go, Mr. Baggins - I think I might have the arc theme, now. If the Tournament of Power arc asks, "What does strength mean?", the Granolah arc asks, "Why do we fight?" And the final, heroic answer might be: "To Protect".

[KentMan]

People are thinking of Broly just because of his appearance in Super Hero, but he doesn't fit in this arc in any obvious way. So I don't think we're going to Vampa. Not ultimately, anyway...

Spoiler:

...I think we're going to Earth.

Gas is apparently going to taunt Goku over his fighting spirit, comparing it unfavourably with a Bardock who was absolutely determined to win, and they've both verbally sparred over the idea that Goku doesn't even know who he really is because he doesn't know enough about his own background etc. The natural place for Goku's riposte to pan out is on Earth - that's the place that made Goku who he really is, and it's also the likeliest motivating factor to give Goku the determination to win, like Bardock had.

Also, consider all the talk in the previous chapters about whether or not there's anyone to protect, or the concept of protection more generally: Ch. 71 - Goku notes Earth isn't in danger, so whatever comes next is fine; Ch. 74 - Vegeta notes there's no-one to protect, so he can just focus on the fighting as his "happy place"; Ch. 72-75 - There's the contrast between Vegeta seeking to take damage and Goku's Ultra Instinct being automatically self-protective; Granolah gets his newfound power in a moment where Vegeta challenges him to protect the planet by putting himself in the way of his Hakai; Ch. 76 - Goku develops protection against Granolah's precision strikes, also protecting Vegeta in the process; Vegeta tells Goku he'll only work with him if they both have something to protect, which isn't the case here; and Granolah gets triggered by the need to protect the Suga-jin when the fight comes to their city; Ch. 77 - Bardock decides instinctively to protect the last Cerealians because they remind him of Kakarot and Gine (and Toriyama has already characterised him as a person who has built his own reputation among Saiyans as someone who protects his teammates, particularly Gine); and whatever else you might care to dredge up - even the Heeters obliquely answer the idea of protection, insofar as it has been revealed that Elec has been protecting Gas from himself.

Given the foregoing, Earth is the likeliest place to go. And it also speaks to what Goku's dilemma is now: certainly die to Gas in the fight if he lets it take its course, or imperil Earth in hopes that it'll give him the determination to win?

Incidentally, there you go, Mr. Baggins - I think I might have the arc theme, now. If the Tournament of Power arc asks, "What does strength mean?", the Granolah arc asks, "Why do we fight?" And the final, heroic answer might be: "To Protect".

I doubt they’re going to earth I’m curious if this will answer some really interesting questions about the interview that Toyotaro and Uchida had? Should they both end up on Vampa. Or some other planet that Broly is on. That being said this chapter is looking alright.

Oh yeah it’s funny how Goku was fighting Granolah FP with just Blue and now he’s doing it in this new chapter against Gas. Now to see if Goku using UI in base and his other forms like Whis said he should will pay off.

[ZodiacBeast]

What if Frieza and Broly are on the same planet?
"After you. No, I insist."

Although ending up on Earth would be neat. Give Goku the motivation to...not let the strongest mortal in the universe, who has aspirations to control (at least part of) the universe, act as he pleases?

Well, Elec does, but yeah.

[KentMan]

What if Frieza and Broly are on the same planet?
"After you. No, I insist."

Although ending up on Earth would be neat. Give Goku the motivation to...not let the strongest mortal in the universe, who has aspirations to control (at least part of) the universe, act as he pleases?

Well, Elec does, but yeah.

Why would Goku endanger the earth by teleporting gas there? It’s quite obvious this will explain how Goku met up with Broly again. I’m taking a guess that they keep teleporting until they meet Broly. Or they teleport straight to Broly By a slight chance they don’t than I don’t know than.

[Hugo Boss]

People are thinking of Broly just because of his appearance in Super Hero, but he doesn't fit in this arc in any obvious way. So I don't think we're going to Vampa. Not ultimately, anyway...

Spoiler:

...I think we're going to Earth.

Gas is apparently going to taunt Goku over his fighting spirit, comparing it unfavourably with a Bardock who was absolutely determined to win, and they've both verbally sparred over the idea that Goku doesn't even know who he really is because he doesn't know enough about his own background etc. The natural place for Goku's riposte to pan out is on Earth - that's the place that made Goku who he really is, and it's also the likeliest motivating factor to give Goku the determination to win, like Bardock had.

Also, consider all the talk in the previous chapters about whether or not there's anyone to protect, or the concept of protection more generally: Ch. 71 - Goku notes Earth isn't in danger, so whatever comes next is fine; Ch. 74 - Vegeta notes there's no-one to protect, so he can just focus on the fighting as his "happy place"; Ch. 72-75 - There's the contrast between Vegeta seeking to take damage and Goku's Ultra Instinct being automatically self-protective; Granolah gets his newfound power in a moment where Vegeta challenges him to protect the planet by putting himself in the way of his Hakai; Ch. 76 - Goku develops protection against Granolah's precision strikes, also protecting Vegeta in the process; Vegeta tells Goku he'll only work with him if they both have something to protect, which isn't the case here; and Granolah gets triggered by the need to protect the Suga-jin when the fight comes to their city; Ch. 77 - Bardock decides instinctively to protect the last Cerealians because they remind him of Kakarot and Gine (and Toriyama has already characterised him as a person who has built his own reputation among Saiyans as someone who protects his teammates, particularly Gine); and whatever else you might care to dredge up - even the Heeters obliquely answer the idea of protection, insofar as it has been revealed that Elec has been protecting Gas from himself.

Given the foregoing, Earth is the likeliest place to go. And it also speaks to what Goku's dilemma is now: certainly die to Gas in the fight if he lets it take its course, or imperil Earth in hopes that it'll give him the determination to win?

Incidentally, there you go, Mr. Baggins - I think I might have the arc theme, now. If the Tournament of Power arc asks, "What does strength mean?", the Granolah arc asks, "Why do we fight?" And the final, heroic answer might be: "To Protect".

You’re as sharp as usual. This is the kind of analysis I look forward to see here.

I entirely agree. Goku is a very impressive fighter when he is fighting for the sake of a fair fight, but when he is protecting something he is extraordinarily tenacious.

[KentMan]

Glad that Goku bringing Gas to earth is highly unlikely I guess some don’t want Broly to be involved. I say I have to hand it to Goku being able to hold his own against Granolah FP with just Blue UI. Now he’s in the fight of his life with Gas showing great dodging of Gas attacks.

[ChronoTwigger]

People are thinking of Broly just because of his appearance in Super Hero, but he doesn't fit in this arc in any obvious way. So I don't think we're going to Vampa. Not ultimately, anyway...

Spoiler:

...I think we're going to Earth.

Gas is apparently going to taunt Goku over his fighting spirit, comparing it unfavourably with a Bardock who was absolutely determined to win, and they've both verbally sparred over the idea that Goku doesn't even know who he really is because he doesn't know enough about his own background etc. The natural place for Goku's riposte to pan out is on Earth - that's the place that made Goku who he really is, and it's also the likeliest motivating factor to give Goku the determination to win, like Bardock had.

Also, consider all the talk in the previous chapters about whether or not there's anyone to protect, or the concept of protection more generally: Ch. 71 - Goku notes Earth isn't in danger, so whatever comes next is fine; Ch. 74 - Vegeta notes there's no-one to protect, so he can just focus on the fighting as his "happy place"; Ch. 72-75 - There's the contrast between Vegeta seeking to take damage and Goku's Ultra Instinct being automatically self-protective; Granolah gets his newfound power in a moment where Vegeta challenges him to protect the planet by putting himself in the way of his Hakai; Ch. 76 - Goku develops protection against Granolah's precision strikes, also protecting Vegeta in the process; Vegeta tells Goku he'll only work with him if they both have something to protect, which isn't the case here; and Granolah gets triggered by the need to protect the Suga-jin when the fight comes to their city; Ch. 77 - Bardock decides instinctively to protect the last Cerealians because they remind him of Kakarot and Gine (and Toriyama has already characterised him as a person who has built his own reputation among Saiyans as someone who protects his teammates, particularly Gine); and whatever else you might care to dredge up - even the Heeters obliquely answer the idea of protection, insofar as it has been revealed that Elec has been protecting Gas from himself.

Given the foregoing, Earth is the likeliest place to go. And it also speaks to what Goku's dilemma is now: certainly die to Gas in the fight if he lets it take its course, or imperil Earth in hopes that it'll give him the determination to win?

Incidentally, there you go, Mr. Baggins - I think I might have the arc theme, now. If the Tournament of Power arc asks, "What does strength mean?", the Granolah arc asks, "Why do we fight?" And the final, heroic answer might be: "To Protect".

To be honest, the whole thing is more about "family drama". Or, to be precise, "burdens of past".

You do not bring a danger close the ones you love only to find the motivation to fight that thing and protect the ones you love from that thing - it's the mental condition of schizophrenia to invert causes and consequences. Sometime prose can get the upper hand, it isn't?

===
I'm now thinking that the "conflict" was instead a "contradiction".

[jd55513]

Loving the spoilers so far!

I maybe right about Granolah being fully healed by Monaito(at the cost of his life) Its been building since the flashback. Monaito has slowly improved his healing, and with the possibility of Granolahs death near, Monaito will do everything to protect his "adoptive son"

I expect another powerup for Granolah(hopefully now, being blinded, maybe he will activate Ultra Instinct), assuming this happens! (Unless Elec does something, like killing Monaito)

As for theme with "Gokus dilemma" I think its similar to the Moro stuff :
He doesn't want to kill someone who is so strong.
Hence why the Galactic Patrol appear at the end, and maybe more(Merus?)

Goku doesn't want to end him(Gas), and maybe prefers to imprison the Heeters
As for the final fight setup with Goku,
I think I know Goku's strategy! He's baiting Gas into following him, planet to planet, siphoning his energy away(Instant Transmission is taxing) Essentially Gas is being weakened each time he uses all the wish moves.

Gas is being brought down to Gokus level imo.
Smart Goku!

[chitarra10]

Spoiler:

Now that Granolah's eyes are damaged, he'll probably rely even more heavily on Oatmeel. Goku subtly teaching Gas to properly use Shunkan-Ido? I wonder where they're going next. And it seems that Elec's business wasn't just unsealing Gas. Looking forward to the fully translated dialogue.

I'm still half-expecting that Elec's wish isn't exactly what he's leading everyone to believe it was... it may have had to with making sure Gas wins the fight, but I still think we're gonna find out that his wish was something a hell of a lot more shady than that, and that he did something behind his siblings' backs that they're not gonna be happy about when they find out. In that case, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gas turn on him, which would be a hell of an awesome plot twist.

[ZodiacBeast]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

[chitarra10]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

Loving the spoilers so far!

I maybe right about Granolah being fully healed by Monaito(at the cost of his life) Its been building since the flashback. Monaito has slowly improved his healing, and with the possibility of Granolahs death near, Monaito will do everything to protect his "adoptive son"

I expect another powerup for Granolah(hopefully now, being blinded, maybe he will activate Ultra Instinct), assuming this happens! (Unless Elec does something, like killing Monaito)

As for theme with "Gokus dilemma" I think its similar to the Moro stuff :
He doesn't want to kill someone who is so strong.
Hence why the Galactic Patrol appear at the end, and maybe more(Merus?)

Goku doesn't want to end him(Gas), and maybe prefers to imprison the Heeters
As for the final fight setup with Goku,
I think I know Goku's strategy! He's baiting Gas into following him, planet to planet, siphoning his energy away(Instant Transmission is taxing) Essentially Gas is being weakened each time he uses all the wish moves.

Gas is being brought down to Gokus level imo.
Smart Goku!

I agree with you there. Goku never wants to kill anyone, he's always trying to show mercy and give them another chance to give up their evil ways so they can be the next Jackie Chun in his life. So I don't think Gas is gonna die. Elec most likely will, though. Honestly, there's just something about this story that's making me think we're gonna find out that Elec did something shady as hell behind Gas's back at his expense, and that Gas is gonna find out and turn on him. It's probably an unlikely scenario, but I would SO freaking love to see that happen.

[KentMan]

Loving the spoilers so far!

I maybe right about Granolah being fully healed by Monaito(at the cost of his life) Its been building since the flashback. Monaito has slowly improved his healing, and with the possibility of Granolahs death near, Monaito will do everything to protect his "adoptive son"

I expect another powerup for Granolah(hopefully now, being blinded, maybe he will activate Ultra Instinct), assuming this happens! (Unless Elec does something, like killing Monaito)

As for theme with "Gokus dilemma" I think its similar to the Moro stuff :
He doesn't want to kill someone who is so strong.
Hence why the Galactic Patrol appear at the end, and maybe more(Merus?)

Goku doesn't want to end him(Gas), and maybe prefers to imprison the Heeters
As for the final fight setup with Goku,
I think I know Goku's strategy! He's baiting Gas into following him, planet to planet, siphoning his energy away(Instant Transmission is taxing) Essentially Gas is being weakened each time he uses all the wish moves.

Gas is being brought down to Gokus level imo.
Smart Goku!

Monaito did not improve his healing and as to whether he’s gonna give his life remains to be seen. As for Goku no one knows if he’s trying to take him planet to planet. I suspect he’s going to Broly since that makes the most sense.

[KentMan]

Spoiler:

Now that Granolah's eyes are damaged, he'll probably rely even more heavily on Oatmeel. Goku subtly teaching Gas to properly use Shunkan-Ido? I wonder where they're going next. And it seems that Elec's business wasn't just unsealing Gas. Looking forward to the fully translated dialogue.

I'm still half-expecting that Elec's wish isn't exactly what he's leading everyone to believe it was... it may have had to with making sure Gas wins the fight, but I still think we're gonna find out that his wish was something a hell of a lot more shady than that, and that he did something behind his siblings' backs that they're not gonna be happy about when they find out. In that case, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gas turn on him, which would be a hell of an awesome plot twist.

So far this theory is looking to be untrue but this story is still going so who knows. As for the wish yes Gas became the new strongest in the universe. They basically confirm it many times and Elec needs Gas to do another task so no backstabbing yet as of late.

[chitarra10]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

I can't help thinking it because of the way Elec is being entirely non-committal about just saying "Yes" when they're asking him if he really did wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe, and he's just kinda talking around it in a very indirect way, and because of how everything Gas is doing in this fight has been pointed out as being his own personal fighting techniques that he's always used in the past. Plus, there's the fact that numerous chapters ago, Macki and Oil got permission to ask 10 questions to Zuno, and we only heard 2 of them, so we don't actually know what the Heeters are truly up to at this point. Not only that, but the chapter where it happened was called "Gas's Wish," not Elec's... we never actually heard the wish because Elec talked to Toronbo alone, and Gas had already stated very clearly that he did NOT want that wish. So something's just really fishy about what Elec is doing, and I think that if Elec really just simply wished for Gas to be the strongest in the universe after he said he was going to, there's no reason for it to have been hidden from the audience. And to be perfectly honest, I'll be really disappointed if all this setting up for such a plot twist doesn't happen.

[KentMan]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

I can't help thinking it because of the way Elec is being entirely non-committal about just saying "Yes" when they're asking him if he really did wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe, and he's just kinda talking around it in a very indirect way, and because of how everything Gas is doing in this fight has been pointed out as being his own personal fighting techniques that he's always used in the past. Plus, there's the fact that numerous chapters ago, Macki and Oil got permission to ask 10 questions to Zuno, and we only heard 2 of them, so we don't actually know what the Heeters are truly up to at this point. Not only that, but the chapter where it happened was called "Gas's Wish," not Elec's... we never actually heard the wish because Elec talked to Toronbo alone, and Gas had already stated very clearly that he did NOT want that wish. So something's just really fishy about what Elec is doing, and I think that if Elec really just simply wished for Gas to be the strongest in the universe after he said he was going to, there's no reason for it to have been hidden from the audience. And to be perfectly honest, I'll be really disappointed if all this setting up for such a plot twist doesn't happen.

Reading the chapters myself again nothing is saying that Elec made a different wish. He just straight up confirmed that he made Gas to be the strongest in the universe. Now as to whether or not he’s planning on betraying his siblings that remains to be seen. I have a feeling the galactic patrol will now get involved. And somehow this will address how Goku met up with Broly again.

[chitarra10]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

I can't help thinking it because of the way Elec is being entirely non-committal about just saying "Yes" when they're asking him if he really did wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe, and he's just kinda talking around it in a very indirect way, and because of how everything Gas is doing in this fight has been pointed out as being his own personal fighting techniques that he's always used in the past. Plus, there's the fact that numerous chapters ago, Macki and Oil got permission to ask 10 questions to Zuno, and we only heard 2 of them, so we don't actually know what the Heeters are truly up to at this point. Not only that, but the chapter where it happened was called "Gas's Wish," not Elec's... we never actually heard the wish because Elec talked to Toronbo alone, and Gas had already stated very clearly that he did NOT want that wish. So something's just really fishy about what Elec is doing, and I think that if Elec really just simply wished for Gas to be the strongest in the universe after he said he was going to, there's no reason for it to have been hidden from the audience. And to be perfectly honest, I'll be really disappointed if all this setting up for such a plot twist doesn't happen.

Reading the chapters myself again nothing is saying that Elec made a different wish. He just straight up confirmed that he made Gas to be the strongest in the universe. Now as to whether or not he’s planning on betraying his siblings that remains to be seen. I have a feeling the galactic patrol will now get involved. And somehow this will address how Goku met up with Broly again.

Something else I just thought about, too... the fact that Elec just shot a hole through Granolah's chest with a gun kinda makes wishing for Gas to be the strongest in the universe kinda useless. What's the use of all the theatrics of this battle between the bunch of them if all it took to get rid of Granolah is one shot while he was distracted? Because if not for Monaito being there to save him, Granolah would've died right then and there. And if he pulled that on Granolah that easily, he could've done the same to Goku and Vegeta just as easily with a simple distraction, no extensive, dramatic battle necessary. So once again, the wish is useless there as well. Would Elec really waste a wish like that if he knew he could so easily get what he wanted without it? And would he really waste a wish on trying to make Gas feel better in a way that Gas straight-up told him that he didn't even want when his bigger goal of taking over the Frieza Force would take far more than that? Wouldn't it be more auspicious to use the wish for something that couldn't be done any other way but by asking Toronbo for it? Elec is portrayed to be a lot more intelligent than that. So that's yet another thing that makes me think his wish isn't exactly what he said it was. It seems like he would've made a smarter wish than that.

[Nistarkail]

"Make sure Gas wins the fight" instead of "make Gas the strongest". Huh, hadn't thought about that possibility. That could be interesting.

I can't help thinking it because of the way Elec is being entirely non-committal about just saying "Yes" when they're asking him if he really did wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe, and he's just kinda talking around it in a very indirect way, and because of how everything Gas is doing in this fight has been pointed out as being his own personal fighting techniques that he's always used in the past. Plus, there's the fact that numerous chapters ago, Macki and Oil got permission to ask 10 questions to Zuno, and we only heard 2 of them, so we don't actually know what the Heeters are truly up to at this point. Not only that, but the chapter where it happened was called "Gas's Wish," not Elec's... we never actually heard the wish because Elec talked to Toronbo alone, and Gas had already stated very clearly that he did NOT want that wish. So something's just really fishy about what Elec is doing, and I think that if Elec really just simply wished for Gas to be the strongest in the universe after he said he was going to, there's no reason for it to have been hidden from the audience. And to be perfectly honest, I'll be really disappointed if all this setting up for such a plot twist doesn't happen.

Reading the chapters myself again nothing is saying that Elec made a different wish. He just straight up confirmed that he made Gas to be the strongest in the universe. Now as to whether or not he’s planning on betraying his siblings that remains to be seen. I have a feeling the galactic patrol will now get involved. And somehow this will address how Goku met up with Broly again.

Not impossible that Elec's wish could sound like:

A - Make Gas the strongest of the universe for a limited amount of time.
B - Make Gas the strongest of the universe only when he will face everybody besides the Heeters.

Surely Elec will dispose of Gas in the future because he can become indipendent and leave his brothers, but from a hideous character like him, we can expect everything.

And the conflict was exactly about?
Beig unable to defeat him?
What a conflict...

I think Gas will greet soon Whis and Beerus. Goku cannot bring a stranger in the planet or solve things with the help of a God of destruction and and an Angel. After all, the strongest in the universe cheated with this wish, and this was an absolute anomaly.