Elec didn’t easily shoot Granolah remember Gas damaged and weakened Granolah. Especially in this chapter where apparently he broke Granolah arms and took Granolah eyes and destroyed them. Don’t forget that Sorbet did something similar to Goku. The wish isn’t useless it helped Gas beat Granolah and now he’s setting his sights on Goku. Elec making some different wish doesn’t make sense otherwise Gas would have lost and not gained Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah got.chitarra10 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:10 am Something else I just thought about, too... the fact that Elec just shot a hole through Granolah's chest with a gun kinda makes wishing for Gas to be the strongest in the universe kinda useless. What's the use of all the theatrics of this battle between the bunch of them if all it took to get rid of Granolah is one shot while he was distracted? Because if not for Monaito being there to save him, Granolah would've died right then and there. And if he pulled that on Granolah that easily, he could've done the same to Goku and Vegeta just as easily with a simple distraction, no extensive, dramatic battle necessary. So once again, the wish is useless there as well. Would Elec really waste a wish like that if he knew he could so easily get what he wanted without it? And would he really waste a wish on trying to make Gas feel better in a way that Gas straight-up told him that he didn't even want when his bigger goal of taking over the Frieza Force would take far more than that? Wouldn't it be more auspicious to use the wish for something that couldn't be done any other way but by asking Toronbo for it? Elec is portrayed to be a lot more intelligent than that. So that's yet another thing that makes me think his wish isn't exactly what he said it was. It seems like he would've made a smarter wish than that.
Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Neither A or B is hinted at actually happening otherwise Gas would never be able to do another task he has. Or Gas would never have Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah also got. Plus there’s a panel where Elec was by himself and he never says anything matching up with A and B. That being said whether he intends to betray his siblings remains to be seen if it happens it happens. But considering that this arc is almost over it doesn’t look like there’s enough time for that.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:31 am Not impossible that Elec's wish could sound like:
A - Make Gas the strongest of the universe for a limited amount of time.
B - Make Gas the strongest of the universe only when he will face everybody besides the Heeters.
Surely Elec will dispose of Gas in the future because he can become indipendent and leave his brothers, but from a hideous character like him, we can expect everything.
I think Gas will greet soon Whis and Beerus. Goku cannot bring a stranger in the planet or solve things with the help of a God of destruction and and an Angel. After all, the strongest in the universe cheated with this wish, and this was an absolute anomaly.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
It's true indeed that there isn't any hint about these hypothesis, but Elec is not the guy who is ready to renounce to his desire, and does everything in order to have zero risks.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:55 amNeither A or B is hinted at actually happening otherwise Gas would never be able to do another task he has. Or Gas would never have Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah also got. Plus there’s a panel where Elec was by himself and he never says anything matching up with A and B. That being said whether he intends to betray his siblings remains to be seen if it happens it happens. But considering that this arc is almost over it doesn’t look like there’s enough time for that.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:31 am Not impossible that Elec's wish could sound like:
A - Make Gas the strongest of the universe for a limited amount of time.
B - Make Gas the strongest of the universe only when he will face everybody besides the Heeters.
Surely Elec will dispose of Gas in the future because he can become independent and leave his brothers, but from a hideous character like him, we can expect everything.
I think Gas will greet soon Whis and Beerus. Goku cannot bring a stranger in the planet or solve things with the help of a God of destruction and and an Angel. After all, the strongest in the universe cheated with this wish, and this was an absolute anomaly.
The arc is over, but the saga not yet. The thing of the 10 wishes, the desire to get a monstrous army, the origin of OG-7-3 and the mentioning of Frieza mean that everything can happen.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Well if it helps Macki didn’t agree with him releasing Gas power so there’s that. The thing here is that should Goku end up on wherever Broly is at. This will answer how Goku got in touch with him again.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:32 amIt's true indeed that there isn't any hint about these hypothesis, but Elec is not the guy who is ready to renounce to his desire, and does everything in order to have zero risks.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:55 amNeither A or B is hinted at actually happening otherwise Gas would never be able to do another task he has. Or Gas would never have Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah also got. Plus there’s a panel where Elec was by himself and he never says anything matching up with A and B. That being said whether he intends to betray his siblings remains to be seen if it happens it happens. But considering that this arc is almost over it doesn’t look like there’s enough time for that.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:31 am Not impossible that Elec's wish could sound like:
A - Make Gas the strongest of the universe for a limited amount of time.
B - Make Gas the strongest of the universe only when he will face everybody besides the Heeters.
Surely Elec will dispose of Gas in the future because he can become independent and leave his brothers, but from a hideous character like him, we can expect everything.
I think Gas will greet soon Whis and Beerus. Goku cannot bring a stranger in the planet or solve things with the help of a God of destruction and and an Angel. After all, the strongest in the universe cheated with this wish, and this was an absolute anomaly.
The arc is over, but the saga not yet. The thing of the 10 wishes, the desire to get a monstrous army, the origin of OG-7-3 and the mentioning of Frieza mean that everything can happen.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Why Broly and not Whis and Beerus? They are more canonical, and to bring a foe in a holy planet where the masters are present for a martial artist is surely shameful.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:49 amWell if it helps Macki didn’t agree with him releasing Gas power so there’s that. The thing here is that should Goku end up on wherever Broly is at. This will answer how Goku got in touch with him again.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:32 amIt's true indeed that there isn't any hint about these hypothesis, but Elec is not the guy who is ready to renounce to his desire, and does everything in order to have zero risks.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:55 am
Neither A or B is hinted at actually happening otherwise Gas would never be able to do another task he has. Or Gas would never have Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah also got. Plus there’s a panel where Elec was by himself and he never says anything matching up with A and B. That being said whether he intends to betray his siblings remains to be seen if it happens it happens. But considering that this arc is almost over it doesn’t look like there’s enough time for that.
The arc is over, but the saga not yet. The thing of the 10 wishes, the desire to get a monstrous army, the origin of OG-7-3 and the mentioning of Frieza mean that everything can happen.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Huh? You realize that Broly is canonical too right? I don’t know what you mean about Whis and Beerus but Whis can’t get involved in mortal fights. I’m pretty certain that Beerus planet is to far away from where Goku is at. So the next best option would be Broly or King Kai’s planet just kidding about the latter. I can only imagine the Kai’s reaction.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:54 am Why Broly and not Whis and Beerus? They are more canonical, and to bring a foe in a holy planet where the masters are present for a martial artist is surely shameful.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:12 amHuh? You realize that Broly is canonical too right? I don’t know what you mean about Whis and Beerus but Whis can’t get involved in mortal fights. I’m pretty certain that Beerus planet is to far away from where Goku is at. So the next best option would be Broly or King Kai’s planet just kidding about the latter. I can only imagine the Kai’s reaction.Nistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:54 am Why Broly and not Whis and Beerus? They are more canonical, and to bring a foe in a holy planet where the masters are present for a martial artist is surely shameful.
But why Goku has to have an internal conflict in order to ask a help to Broly? It could sound bad compared to the shame to involve deities in this fight.
And let's not forget that Zeno deleted a mistake as Zamasu for the shit done playing with the time and space. So even Gas and Granolah technically are products of an unnatural flow of events and in order to gain their maximum potential, both of them have to travel and meet necessarily Goku & Vegeta and then Whis & Beerus.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Ok don’t know if I understand that first paragraph of yours? As for you second one I never insinuated that Goku might need help. He probably is gonna use the senzu beans that he gave Cheelai assuming she or Lemo didn’t use it. I don’t understand what you are saying in the last paragraph cause what Zamasu did vs what Gas and Granolah did are separate things. But who knowsNistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:59 am![]()
![]()
Well, if Bardock is canon, even Broly has to be. The last movies are produced with the intent to be in the storyline, and there is much more attention compared to its old "ancestors".
But why Goku has to have an internal conflict in order to ask a help to Broly? It could sound bad compared to the shame to involve deities in this fight.
And let's not forget that Zeno deleted a mistake as Zamasu for the shit done playing with the time and space. So even Gas and Granolah technically are products of an unnatural flow of events and in order to gain their maximum potential, both of them have to travel and meet necessarily Goku & Vegeta and then Whis & Beerus.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
I always avoid chapter leaks/spoilers out of principle, so I haven't been keeping up with those.Magnificent Ponta wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:07 pm Incidentally, there you go, Mr. Baggins - I think I might have the arc theme, now. If the Tournament of Power arc asks, "What does strength mean?", the Granolah arc asks, "Why do we fight?" And the final, heroic answer might be: "To Protect".
In any case: I'm more inclined to agree with that one given its juxtaposition with Vegeta and Granolah's initial answers to that question, but I can't commit to any one theory until the climax resolution, which tends to be when thematic subject matter is at its clearest.
None of that, if true, absolves the arc of its problems at all for me (even if it does relate to all of the participating characters in some sense) but I don't doubt that T&T always have a central theme in mind. The seeds for a compelling story are there, even if I don't think it's being told in a compelling way.
Spoiler:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
There's something to that, but I guess my issue with this interpretation is that its connection to Goku is very flimsy. He doesn't bear any personal burden for the events of the past that everyone else in the arc is focused on, and the arc has actually made a point of noting his lack of personal investment in those events or the people who were directly involved - which, given that this is his only connection to those events at all, means that the idea of the past being a burden doesn't run, for him.ChronoTwigger wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:56 pmTo be honest, the whole thing is more about "family drama". Or, to be precise, "burdens of past".
He carries the past with him, I guess you could say (don't we all, perforce?), but it would only be in the most perfunctory, nebulous and passive way possible: he's Bardock's kid, he looks like him, and he's fighting the same guy, but there's nothing with actual character depth to those facts, for Goku. And what's more, it doesn't seem to connect in any meaningful way with what the core of the exchange it seems he'll be having with Gas in the forthcoming Chapter. Hence why I've chosen to speculate in the way I have, I guess, as it would sharpen a thematic throughline that Goku actually has active and indisputable personal involvement in.
You wouldn't do that, no. And to be sure, I wouldn't do it either. But the actual question at play here, is: Would Goku do it?ChronoTwigger wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:56 pmYou do not bring a danger close the ones you love only to find the motivation to fight that thing and protect the ones you love from that thing
Given that this is the guy who was willing to stake the Earth and everybody's lives on the gamble of Gotenks being able to take out Majin Buu (i.e., to solve the bigger problem), to me it seems not at all improbable - why wouldn't he place the same wager on being able to find it in himself to pull out the win against this arc's "bigger problem" now? Frankly, it seems like a much safer bet.
And it's no stretch to reason that if Gas kills Goku now, Earth is directly exposed to the Heeter planet-wrecking-and-selling operation in any case (the Heeters have even been there already, there's no way they're leaving it alone after all this if they have their way); if the risk is already there, why not go 'all-in' to get the best chance of victory?
But we'll see whether that comes to fruition. It's all just speculation at this point, so I won't press it too hard now.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Reading the summary was actually giving me the impression that Goku is training Gas in this fight similar to Vegeta training Granolah in theirs. Goku tells Gas that Gas couldn't have reached the planet they're on with teleportation as he is still a rookie in that regard, and talks about how he trained for years to hone the teleportation skill. But then Goku actually goads Gas to join him in teleporting to another planet, which Gas has never attempted before.
This gave me 2 ideas.
1: Goku is training Gas and this will end up leaving Gas with something of a respect for Goku as the fight progresses (the dialogue right now is also emphasising Gas's current lack of respect for Goku, saying he has no fighting spirit etc).
2: Goku is trying to get Gas to use teleportation in ways that are too advanced and dangerous. Gas will endanger himself somehow by trying to keep up, which ties into his insecurities as well. It's been established that teleporting uses ki, so maybe repeatedly teleporting large distances (which Goku is used to) will drain Gas's ki to the point where they're on more of a level playing field.
Either way, I think the story is leading to a conclusion where Goku is going to beat Gas while maintaining the significant power difference between them (ie: I don't think perfected ultra instinct is going to save the day here) to mirror how Bardock defeated Gas despite the power difference.
This gave me 2 ideas.
1: Goku is training Gas and this will end up leaving Gas with something of a respect for Goku as the fight progresses (the dialogue right now is also emphasising Gas's current lack of respect for Goku, saying he has no fighting spirit etc).
2: Goku is trying to get Gas to use teleportation in ways that are too advanced and dangerous. Gas will endanger himself somehow by trying to keep up, which ties into his insecurities as well. It's been established that teleporting uses ki, so maybe repeatedly teleporting large distances (which Goku is used to) will drain Gas's ki to the point where they're on more of a level playing field.
Either way, I think the story is leading to a conclusion where Goku is going to beat Gas while maintaining the significant power difference between them (ie: I don't think perfected ultra instinct is going to save the day here) to mirror how Bardock defeated Gas despite the power difference.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
He snuck up behind Granolah and shot him in the back while he was distracted, which is something he could've done even if Granolah was at full power, and he could've easily separated Goku and Vegeta, and done the same to them as well, and he wouldn't even have had to get near them, but just guarantee that they were sufficiently distracted so as not to expect a gunshot coming. It just makes me wonder why Elec would waste a wish like that because in terms of how he's thinking and what his ultimate goal is, he totally wasted it. If he was going to use a wish to get rid of people, why not just say, "I wish for Granolah, Monaito, Goku, and Vegeta to die/disappear from existence," instead of making a wish that's not guaranteed at all to achieve that goal and that involves a lot of dramatic battle theatrics? When Elec has a wish for anything at all at his disposal, why not use it in order to make something happen that he can't otherwise without it, like wishing for Frieza to die/disappear or some other easy access path to taking over the Frieza Force? It just makes no sense to me that Elec would waste a wish on something Gas didn't even want, and that Macki and Oil were iffy about, when it can't even guarantee him success. This whole thing just screams of Elec doing something shady as hell behind everyone's backs, including his siblings' backs, and that it's come back to bite him in the ass in the end.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:49 amElec didn’t easily shoot Granolah remember Gas damaged and weakened Granolah. Especially in this chapter where apparently he broke Granolah arms and took Granolah eyes and destroyed them. Don’t forget that Sorbet did something similar to Goku. The wish isn’t useless it helped Gas beat Granolah and now he’s setting his sights on Goku. Elec making some different wish doesn’t make sense otherwise Gas would have lost and not gained Hakai and the other wish powers that Granolah got.chitarra10 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:10 am Something else I just thought about, too... the fact that Elec just shot a hole through Granolah's chest with a gun kinda makes wishing for Gas to be the strongest in the universe kinda useless. What's the use of all the theatrics of this battle between the bunch of them if all it took to get rid of Granolah is one shot while he was distracted? Because if not for Monaito being there to save him, Granolah would've died right then and there. And if he pulled that on Granolah that easily, he could've done the same to Goku and Vegeta just as easily with a simple distraction, no extensive, dramatic battle necessary. So once again, the wish is useless there as well. Would Elec really waste a wish like that if he knew he could so easily get what he wanted without it? And would he really waste a wish on trying to make Gas feel better in a way that Gas straight-up told him that he didn't even want when his bigger goal of taking over the Frieza Force would take far more than that? Wouldn't it be more auspicious to use the wish for something that couldn't be done any other way but by asking Toronbo for it? Elec is portrayed to be a lot more intelligent than that. So that's yet another thing that makes me think his wish isn't exactly what he said it was. It seems like he would've made a smarter wish than that.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
According to these spoilers and the drafts Elec only managed to do so after Granolah arms and eyes were damaged. The dragon balls can’t grant a wish beyond their makers power. Well they can use years of living to increase one’s strength but that’s not the same. Like I said Elec made the wish to make Gas the strongest in the universe. It’s just like Granolah he had to unlock his true power.chitarra10 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:10 pm He snuck up behind Granolah and shot him in the back while he was distracted, which is something he could've done even if Granolah was at full power, and he could've easily separated Goku and Vegeta, and done the same to them as well, and he wouldn't even have had to get near them, but just guarantee that they were sufficiently distracted so as not to expect a gunshot coming. It just makes me wonder why Elec would waste a wish like that because in terms of how he's thinking and what his ultimate goal is, he totally wasted it. If he was going to use a wish to get rid of people, why not just say, "I wish for Granolah, Monaito, Goku, and Vegeta to die/disappear from existence," instead of making a wish that's not guaranteed at all to achieve that goal and that involves a lot of dramatic battle theatrics? When Elec has a wish for anything at all at his disposal, why not use it in order to make something happen that he can't otherwise without it, like wishing for Frieza to die/disappear or some other easy access path to taking over the Frieza Force? It just makes no sense to me that Elec would waste a wish on something Gas didn't even want, and that Macki and Oil were iffy about, when it can't even guarantee him success. This whole thing just screams of Elec doing something shady as hell behind everyone's backs, including his siblings' backs, and that it's come back to bite him in the ass in the end.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Starting to think Gas won't die and the only death will be Elec.Jack Bz wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:22 pm Reading the summary was actually giving me the impression that Goku is training Gas in this fight similar to Vegeta training Granolah in theirs. Goku tells Gas that Gas couldn't have reached the planet they're on with teleportation as he is still a rookie in that regard, and talks about how he trained for years to hone the teleportation skill. But then Goku actually goads Gas to join him in teleporting to another planet, which Gas has never attempted before.
This gave me 2 ideas.
1: Goku is training Gas and this will end up leaving Gas with something of a respect for Goku as the fight progresses (the dialogue right now is also emphasising Gas's current lack of respect for Goku, saying he has no fighting spirit etc).
2: Goku is trying to get Gas to use teleportation in ways that are too advanced and dangerous. Gas will endanger himself somehow by trying to keep up, which ties into his insecurities as well. It's been established that teleporting uses ki, so maybe repeatedly teleporting large distances (which Goku is used to) will drain Gas's ki to the point where they're on more of a level playing field.
Either way, I think the story is leading to a conclusion where Goku is going to beat Gas while maintaining the significant power difference between them (ie: I don't think perfected ultra instinct is going to save the day here) to mirror how Bardock defeated Gas despite the power difference.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Thanks the indepths. Just for adding elements to your (as usual) smart analysis.
Goku as narrative object have only one drive left, quoted many times: perfectioning.
Gas words seems to tell that his blurred roots are an obstacle to obtain such perfection. Someone that doesn't know his "family" for real cannot be a complete individual and will always own such... conflict. Vibrating between two identities.
Vegeta was told by Beerus about Sayan violent past, and Granolah mess was about his misunderstood childhood.
Gas mirror Goku quite perfectly, as the continual quoting and presence of his family. Gas is not just Gas, but the lil bro of Elec the whole time.
I think is the first time such "conflict" was risen in DB, the one that Goku is lacking a clear identity and so missing something. Probably the ending morale will be that your actions determine who you are, not your roots. You can leave behind the burdens of your past (past == roots) if you want for.
To notice that's very '70, when all anime kids negating family heritages to crystalize a new identity and set of values. There was a generational breakdown going on in Japan. Recently, instead, it's all about fortifying such roots.
As for Goku actions... Goku is the slave of the plot, and unfortunately sometime authors doesn't know what they're doing. Anyway, Goku never caused a crisis situation (or not consciously). It's a bit like putting your kids in front of a fire, even if that will save them your instinct is to move them away from the danger source.
As finding motivation, is like Goku telling monsters to go kill Krilin, so he can go crazy about. We "know" the consequences as external bystanders, by the characters own conscience Krilin death is not something you want to happen, whatever the cnsequence.
Have a nice day (or night, who knows).
I learned english listening to songs. So I don't know anything about. The day you had to learn play piano by just listening .mp3, you'll understand.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
The point is that I find really strange the link between this arc and even a cameo of Broly & co. However I was only speaking about chances to see deities in chapter 82.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:32 amOk don’t know if I understand that first paragraph of yours? As for you second one I never insinuated that Goku might need help. He probably is gonna use the senzu beans that he gave Cheelai assuming she or Lemo didn’t use it. I don’t understand what you are saying in the last paragraph cause what Zamasu did vs what Gas and Granolah did are separate things. But who knowsNistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:59 am![]()
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Well, if Bardock is canon, even Broly has to be. The last movies are produced with the intent to be in the storyline, and there is much more attention compared to its old "ancestors".
But why Goku has to have an internal conflict in order to ask a help to Broly? It could sound bad compared to the shame to involve deities in this fight.
And let's not forget that Zeno deleted a mistake as Zamasu for the shit done playing with the time and space. So even Gas and Granolah technically are products of an unnatural flow of events and in order to gain their maximum potential, both of them have to travel and meet necessarily Goku & Vegeta and then Whis & Beerus.
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
I can’t answer that only speculate and guess though if it helps Whis does sense that this could cause turmoil or something like that.Nistarkail wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:49 amThe point is that I find really strange the link between this arc and even a cameo of Broly & co. However I was only speaking about chances to see deities in chapter 82.KentMan wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:32 amOk don’t know if I understand that first paragraph of yours? As for you second one I never insinuated that Goku might need help. He probably is gonna use the senzu beans that he gave Cheelai assuming she or Lemo didn’t use it. I don’t understand what you are saying in the last paragraph cause what Zamasu did vs what Gas and Granolah did are separate things. But who knowsNistarkail wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:59 am![]()
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Well, if Bardock is canon, even Broly has to be. The last movies are produced with the intent to be in the storyline, and there is much more attention compared to its old "ancestors".
But why Goku has to have an internal conflict in order to ask a help to Broly? It could sound bad compared to the shame to involve deities in this fight.
And let's not forget that Zeno deleted a mistake as Zamasu for the shit done playing with the time and space. So even Gas and Granolah technically are products of an unnatural flow of events and in order to gain their maximum potential, both of them have to travel and meet necessarily Goku & Vegeta and then Whis & Beerus.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Thanks for the reply and the insights! They're certainly interesting, particularly the linkage between the familial element and the deterministic aspects of the past (if I've understood you correctly); if Goku's being run as a thematic 'anti-element' to relativise or confute the idea that a 'rooted' or 'fixed' past sets your course in the present, then that works with what we've seen, particularly given the narrative position and deployment of 'that day 40 years ago' in the broader story. Definitely worth bearing in mind for the climax - I'm glad you're back in the discussion.
Of course, while we're in 'speculation mode', it's worth bearing in mind that none of the things we've talked over necessarily contradict each other, but could instead feed into each other as a set of elements brought together across the conflict, perhaps with some extra elements (like Jack Bz's suggestion that Goku's drawing Gas into a chase that exposes the idea that how you use your power and building on that is all-important, which has also appeared prominently across the arc a few times and is a staple of Dragon Ball Super more generally).
So, maybe we're looking at something like the following?:
- Gas is drawing a familial contrast with Goku now - he's drawing his strength, he thinks, from his family's existence as a unit (and more obviously from their actions in the arc, which actually have made him the strongest), and Goku can't do that because he has none of this awareness or benefit because he doesn't know his roots;
- Gas is also making the point that Goku doesn't actually have the same personal characteristics as his father - that is, his fighting spirit and determination to win (and we might surmise from Chapter 77 that this arose from the emergence and transference of a nascent familial, and thus protective, instinct) - though we, the readers, know this to be quite untrue and may expect it to be turned around at the other end of the fight;
- Goku makes the point about his own past being used in a way that has brought its own advantages - i.e., a better use of the power he has, which Gas himself cannot replicate because his power is newfound and hasn't been developed properly because his own past has involved him being kept away from real combat since his loss 40 years ago (similar to Vegeta's point that Granolah can't use his power properly, and then his note that Gas's Shunkan Idou in particular is sloppy because he isn't used to those powers);
- Goku leads Gas on a chase from planet to planet - probably a neat opportunity to get in some cameos of places we've seen before (e.g., New Namek, wherever Merus happens to be, maybe even Vampa and Broly, briefly), but with the principal goal of whittling away Gas's power so that he squanders his main advantage over Goku...
- ...Until the chase comes to an end, on Earth. It becomes clear that this is what Goku was waiting for. They've both expended massive power in chasing all over the Galaxy, but Goku has the capacity to use Ultra Instinct in his Base Form, and having made Gas less of a threat by taking away his power and isolating him, Goku's simply brought him to a place where it magnifies Goku's advantages hugely and gives him the upper hand by having him draw strength and determination from the place that has truly made him what he is - thus demonstrating he does, in fact, know who he is, but not because he knows his familial roots, but rather because - in Whis's words earlier in the arc - he uses the past in the sense that he measures himself against himself 'from yesterday', and strives to overcome that (it would relate in a second obvious way because the ethos he learned on Earth also encompasses this aspect);
- However, unbeknownst to Goku, he is also aligning with his father insofar as he's using his instincts in the same protective vein (and, we would know, Goku himself was the ultimate source of that power/determination in Bardock in the first place), and drawing his fighting spirit from there, which Gas would be able to recognise and also see visibly, given that Base Goku would look exactly like Bardock, even using Ultra Instinct. Goku wins in a similar manner to Bardock (with attendant flashbacks from Gas's perspective), and the Heeters are beaten/escape back into the shadows/introduce a twist that speaks to the further future but not right now, leaving enough time to draw together and resolve the other threads of the plot re: Granolah etc.
However it turns out, I think speculating is just part of the fun. Thanks again!
Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
Yeah I’m going with Goku ain’t gonna bring gas to earth and he’s more than likely gonna see Broly or he’s gonna fight Gas on a remote planet. Plus I’m looking forward to reading this chapter and seeing if something was amiss.
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chitarra10
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread
I agree with that. I still think Elec didn't wish for what he said he did, that he did something shady as hell behind everyone's backs with the Dragon Balls, and that it's gonna be his undoing in the end. It's pretty clear at this point that Elec is doing to Gas what Frieza did to Vegeta, and I'm kinda wondering if that's gonna come out at some point in this story, and it's gonna cause Gas to turn on him. It's not unlike Goku at all to get through to his opponents through their battle about how they don't have to hate each other or kill each other, and for that opponent to end up as his friend in the end, so I'm kinda wondering if something along those lines is gonna happen with Gas once we find out what Elec is really up to behind the scenes. Maybe they don't end up as friends per se, but at least not as enemies anymore.OLKv3 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:03 pmStarting to think Gas won't die and the only death will be Elec.Jack Bz wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:22 pm Reading the summary was actually giving me the impression that Goku is training Gas in this fight similar to Vegeta training Granolah in theirs. Goku tells Gas that Gas couldn't have reached the planet they're on with teleportation as he is still a rookie in that regard, and talks about how he trained for years to hone the teleportation skill. But then Goku actually goads Gas to join him in teleporting to another planet, which Gas has never attempted before.
This gave me 2 ideas.
1: Goku is training Gas and this will end up leaving Gas with something of a respect for Goku as the fight progresses (the dialogue right now is also emphasising Gas's current lack of respect for Goku, saying he has no fighting spirit etc).
2: Goku is trying to get Gas to use teleportation in ways that are too advanced and dangerous. Gas will endanger himself somehow by trying to keep up, which ties into his insecurities as well. It's been established that teleporting uses ki, so maybe repeatedly teleporting large distances (which Goku is used to) will drain Gas's ki to the point where they're on more of a level playing field.
Either way, I think the story is leading to a conclusion where Goku is going to beat Gas while maintaining the significant power difference between them (ie: I don't think perfected ultra instinct is going to save the day here) to mirror how Bardock defeated Gas despite the power difference.

