Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 81 - Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

I never have much to say after finishing chapters in this arc, so time to experiment with typing as I read!

1. Granolah throws the world's slowest punch. The action of throwing a punch shouldn't take 1.5 pages, especially if speed is what you're trying to convey.

2. I get that Dragonball is goku's story, but Vegeta has more of a connection to these guys than Goku. Why not have him get the ki boost to fight them?

3. "Now that you know our plan, we can't let you live." - I'm reading monthly and I don't know your plan. They're fine.

4. Gas is about to get serious and end this. But first he must toy with Goku for many pages.

Another month, another subpar, nothing chapter.

[batistabus]

1. Granolah throws the world's slowest punch. The action of throwing a punch shouldn't take 1.5 pages, especially if speed is what you're trying to convey.

I don't particularly think speed is the main emphasis here. The things on display are Granolah's rage, Gas' new ability, and Elec's untouchableness.

2. I get that Dragonball is goku's story, but Vegeta has more of a connection to these guys than Goku. Why not have him get the ki boost to fight them?

Because Goku has more mastery over MnG than Vegeta does over WnG. Vegeta gave it his all during his fight against Granolah, he's probably out of ideas. Goku got weak-pointed.

3. "Now that you know our plan, we can't let you live." - I'm reading monthly and I don't know your plan. They're fine.

To take power from Freeza.

4. Gas is about to get serious and end this. But first he must toy with Goku for many pages.

Yeah, that's what he was supposed to do. Seems like he's enjoying himself somewhat. Seems Goku and Gas both have things to teach each other.

Another month, another subpar, nothing chapter.

We get it.

[Lionel]

Is it just the dithering narrative focus that has people in ill spirits over this current arc or the unremarkable small scale nature of the conflict with bland execution of a potentially interesting plot concept? I'll concede this arc hasn't garnered much enthusiasm from myself. I enjoyed Granolah at first for his similarities to Enishi from Rurouni Kenshin but the insistent character swap with loss of central focus and significant developments past the characters one upping each other and the Bardock sub-narrative and parallelism has been off putting for me.

When it comes to this specific chapter the positives I can remark on is the visceral brutality of Granolah's physical deconstruction by his former employers, Elec and Gas still demonstrating mutual loyalty without one backstabbing the other in typical DBZ fashion, the creative nature of the fight currently panning out, and Gas appearing to get under Goku's skin somewhat. The fight as a whole doesn't have me too interested. I hope for something more to be done with Granolah and Vegeta's roles in this conflict.

Ponta's suggestion of Granolah living with the consequences of his obsessive pursuit of vengeance and the negatively sacrificial measures he took to try and achieve it would make for some good dramatic irony -- loss of sight symbolically hearkening to his single minded focus on revenge and having to rely on his companion Oatmeel for guidance the rest of his life. Although why he couldn't continue to sense ki and fight with his legs would be odd to me.

[capsulecorp]

There is nothing going on thematically. There are people speculating about what might be going on thematically, but 90% of the replies in this thread have been just that; people predicting future chapters rather than discussing the content of this one. This B plot wasn't even a thing until the climax.

This is irredeemably boring.

I would actually say most replies have been the same people levying the same complaints about this arc month-after-month. This thread has recently become one of the most negative spaces to discuss the DBS manga online. Criticism is part of healthy discussion, but in theory, we're supposed to be fans. No need to drag down people who are enjoying it just because you aren't. If you're not interested, and haven't been for about a year now, perhaps it's time to move along until the new arc begins.

I'm torn about this because I think people should be free to say what they want, usually... but I agree, when so many of the same people keep making similar and ultimately shallow complaints, it really does make life worse for everyone else. The way I think about now, though, is that its ok to not like something, it's even ok to not like it a lot! But it's not ok to be boring. You need to at least try to make substantive points and engage with people who are trying to engage with you. Phrases that boil down to "No, you're wrong" or "Most fans agree with me" are empty and pointless and yeah, if that's all someone has to offer it might actually be better to just take a break from posting.

[Magnificent Ponta]

2. I get that Dragonball is goku's story, but Vegeta has more of a connection to these guys than Goku. Why not have him get the ki boost to fight them?

I did also find this interesting as I read, just for the thought that progressively over the span of Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta may in some ways have become a more instinctively selfless and supportive individual than Son Goku is (of which this would simply be another example).

If I had to guess where Goku and Gas will end up, my guess is with Freeza. This entire chain of events is his fault, he's related to the next phase of Heata's scheme, and it's a good ace-in-the-hole that hasn't been explored yet.

At least part of me wants the pair to just blow straight in-and-out of wherever Freeza is, for the gag of him wondering what the heck was that all about, before going back to whatever he was doing beforehand. Despite the conflict and stakes and whatnot swirling around him theoretically, I'd enjoy that being as close as all this gets to actually touching him personally.

[capsulecorp]

At least part of me wants the pair to just blow straight in-and-out of wherever Freeza is, for the gag of him wondering what the heck was that all about, before going back to whatever he was doing beforehand. Despite the conflict and stakes and whatnot swirling around him theoretically, I'd enjoy that being as close as all this gets to actually touching him personally.

That seems too close to what we just saw with Jaco, though. Given that 73 still hasn't been re-introduced, maybe this arc will end with Frieza getting his hands on its power somehow and lead into something new.

[batistabus]

I would actually say most replies have been the same people levying the same complaints about this arc month-after-month. This thread has recently become one of the most negative spaces to discuss the DBS manga online. Criticism is part of healthy discussion, but in theory, we're supposed to be fans. No need to drag down people who are enjoying it just because you aren't. If you're not interested, and haven't been for about a year now, perhaps it's time to move along until the new arc begins.

I'm torn about this because I think people should be free to say what they want, usually... but I agree, when so many of the same people keep making similar and ultimately shallow complaints, it really does make life worse for everyone else. The way I think about now, though, is that its ok to not like something, it's even ok to not like it a lot! But it's not ok to be boring. You need to at least try to make substantive points and engage with people who are trying to engage with you. Phrases that boil down to "No, you're wrong" or "Most fans agree with me" are empty and pointless and yeah, if that's all someone has to offer it might actually be better to just take a break from posting.

I'm not necessarily saying that the criticism have been shallow. Most have been well enough articulated, and some amount to personal preference, which is totally fine. Although I do think there has been a tendency to overlook positives where they exist...I think the point has been made. Complaining isn't going to make Toyotaro change things. When I was sour on the DBS anime, I didn't go in those threads and drag down that discussion every episode. It's also odd when people only complain and say they're bored but come back every month the day the chapter is released to tell us about it...

If I had to guess where Goku and Gas will end up, my guess is with Freeza. This entire chain of events is his fault, he's related to the next phase of Heata's scheme, and it's a good ace-in-the-hole that hasn't been explored yet.

At least part of me wants the pair to just blow straight in-and-out of wherever Freeza is, for the gag of him wondering what the heck was that all about, before going back to whatever he was doing beforehand. Despite the conflict and stakes and whatnot swirling around him theoretically, I'd enjoy that being as close as all this gets to actually touching him personally.

That has been my expectation throughout this arc, but since they're zipping around anyway, and I don't see Vampa or Earth as particularly good candidates....we'll see.

[capsulecorp]

I'm not necessarily saying that the criticism have been shallow. Most have been well enough articulated, and some amount to personal preference, which is totally fine. Although I do think there has been a tendency to overlook positives where they exist...I think the point has been made. Complaining isn't going to make Toyotaro change things. When I was sour on the DBS anime, I didn't go in those threads and drag down that discussion every episode. It's also odd when people only complain and say they're bored but come back every month the day the chapter is released to tell us about it...

Fair enough. It's true that personal preference isn't "shallow", but it's not an appropriate rebuttal to someone else's point. "I liked this", "No, I didn't like it", is not a conversation that's worth having in public.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 81:

- The fight between Gas and Granolah is finally over... and it's as anti-climatic as I thought it would.

- With Granoloah out the picture there's now....a prolonged fight between Gas and Goku... ugh...

- Didn't expect trains to be used in a Dragon Ball fight and wasn't expecting it to be incorporated so entertainingly. Well played Toyotaro.

- The artwork is downright gorgeous. Seriously, this may be the most visually well-defined chapter in all of the Dragon Ball Super manga.

- A lot of fighting was fun to look at.

- Gas is still a character who is boring as sin and brings nothing to the table for the narrative of arc thematically. Which begs the question of why he's getting so much screentime if his character won't develop or he won't further the plot in any interesting way.

- Jaco's cameo was the best thing about the chapter. I love how brags about being a super-elite and believes he's above simple work like helping a store owner change his lightbulb, but does it any because he wants to feel useful in any way possible. I'd love for Jaco to be a central character for an arc of Super one day as supposed to being just a glorified extra with the occasional exposition dump.

- A change of scenery was very much needed.

Overall thoughts... yet another chapter with little to no plot progression. *sigh*

[Mr Baggins]

It's fine for you to be bored, but even at a glance it should be obvious how this arc plays with the same themes of earned vs borrowed power that have been present for the vast majority of DBS.

You mean the same idea that was regurgitated countless times throughout the original manga in various places and in Super? That was an aspect I'd criticized several chapters ago, back when Granolah and Gas were doing this shtick.

No thanks. I liked it better when Resurrection 'F' did it, being immediately baked into the thematic premise of Freeza's hasty revenge and all.

No need to drag down people who are enjoying it just because you aren't.

You are being overly defensive here.

My point about everyone predicting upcoming months wasn't to demean them, or "drag them down"; my point was that it says an awful lot about how absurdly dry these chapters are. It's totally understandable that one would be tempted to just talk about what might happen next, and how it could tie into the overarching narrative, since there's not much happening now other than mostly more fighting.

If you've been reading my posts prior to Gas, you should know that I've been pretty damn invested in this arc up until recently.

I want this to be good. It isn't.

[Koitsukai]

If I had to guess where Goku and Gas will end up, my guess is with Freeza. This entire chain of events is his fault, he's related to the next phase of Heata's scheme, and it's a good ace-in-the-hole that hasn't been explored yet. I'd be fine with roping in Broly, but I don't think he's as relevant. It would be kind of a dick move if Goku brought Gas to Vampa to mess things up (a planetoid probably couldn't take as much damage, either). Based on Freeza's final lines from DBS:B, it's possible that Freeza and Broly could actually be together, but I'm not expecting that.

That would be welcomed, to have them appear in Freeza's chamber.

Broly, I'm not so sure. By SH he seems to get along with Goku, so if currently he is under Freeza, he'd need to become "good" again, and that type of development for Toyo, at the current pace, would take 4 o 5 years and we only have like 3 chapters left, at most.

About going to Vampa, while I would enjoy Broly surpassing Gas, after breaking his limits, and having Elecc shove the wish up his ass, but Goku has already called daddy (Zeno) to beat his bully once, so I think I pass and have Goku deal with Gas, like his actual father did.

[capsulecorp]

You mean the same idea that was regurgitated countless times throughout the original manga in various places and in Super? That was an aspect I'd criticized several chapters ago, back when Granolah and Gas were doing this shtick.

And I liked it better in the climax of Battle of Gods! That's fine! But it's there, whether we like it or not.

[capsulecorp]

we only have like 3 chapters left, at most.

Why do you assume this? There seems to be so much left to unfold that the only way that could be true is if this arc leads directly into the next, sort of like Androids -> Cell... which I think is plausible, for what its worth.

[batistabus]

No need to drag down people who are enjoying it just because you aren't.

You are being overly defensive here.

My point about everyone predicting upcoming months wasn't to demean them, or "drag them down"; my point was that it says an awful lot about how absurdly dry these chapters are. It's totally understandable that one would be tempted to just talk about what might happen next, and how it could tie into the overarching narrative, since there's not much happening now other than mostly more fighting.

Although I used "you", my intent was not to target you personally. I enjoy your commentary, and I'm not suggesting people should not point out things they dislike. I'm just trying to push back on the negativity, which I think has been a bit excessive lately. Saying things like "this is nothing" (not a direct quote) is neither constructive nor true.

I want this to be good. It isn't.

Counterpoint: it is because I like it.

That would be welcomed, to have them appear in Freeza's chamber. Broly, I'm not so sure.

Going to Freeza could provide both drama and comedic relief. Broly might be able to help beat Gas, but Broly is unreliable, and Goku will inherently screw over anyone he brings Gas to.

[Mr Baggins]

I enjoy your commentary, and I'm not suggesting people should not point out things they dislike. I'm just trying to push back on the negativity, which I think has been a bit excessive lately. Saying things like "this is nothing" (not a direct quote) is neither constructive nor true.

I always try to elaborate why I make those statements, though, in a way that I feel is perfectly constructive relative to other arcs in the series.

I understand that you might get overbearing negativity from people you normally enjoy reading posts from, but I can't shy away from pointing out what I think are enormous misfires every step of the way. For what it's worth, it's not like I don't want to find something enjoyable in all of this. I never go into these chapters ready to shit on them.

Counterpoint: it is because I like it.

And that's fair.

To be clear, everything I post is my opinion. I just don't personally like having to preface it all with "in my opinion" since I think that's redundant and should be assumed by default in the first place, given the nature of forums and our subjective evaluations of art.

[TKA]

I did also find this interesting as I read, just for the thought that progressively over the span of Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta may in some ways have become a more instinctively selfless and supportive individual than Son Goku is (of which this would simply be another example).

This really stuck out to me while reading because this is twice within 3 chapters where Vegeta has chosen not to fight himself, which is really odd, especially when Goku has less of a reason to want to fight the Heeters than he does. It made sense when he gave Granolah the senzu instead of using it himself, but it's less sensical here.

Because Goku has more mastery over MnG than Vegeta does over WnG. Vegeta gave it his all during his fight against Granolah, he's probably out of ideas. Goku got weak-pointed.

That's just punches and kicks though. That's boring. I want characters who are linked interacting with each other. You spend so much time in the arc connecting Granolah, Vegeta and the Heeters, and then you have it come down to Goku? Why? Because of a father he never knew nor expressed any interest in learning about? That's big lame.

To take power from Freeza.

Not really much of a plan. They have an antagonistic relationship with Frieza, and are evil. I didn't even register them wanting to take over as a "plan" because it's such an obvious eventuality. It's like a lion killing you because it doesn't want anyone to know it's going to attack a gazelle. I mean, okay?

Yeah, that's what he was supposed to do. Seems like he's enjoying himself somewhat. Seems Goku and Gas both have things to teach each other.

It's been a year at this point of characters threatening to finally get serious and end things, only to not.

We get it.

Hey I only commented once! Well, technically twice now.

[emperior]

The Heeters should have just said that they want to kill them right there right now so as not to have any other enemy in the universe after they also get to Freeza.

Vegeta giving ki to Goku was odd. Maybe it could have been tied better to what had happened earlier, when Goku’s punch destabilised Gas due to his reminiscence with Bardock.

I agree that, up until now, the arc seems like it is thematically messed up, hopefully Toyotaro will be able to tie up everything nicely.

[chitarra10]

2. I get that Dragonball is goku's story, but Vegeta has more of a connection to these guys than Goku. Why not have him get the ki boost to fight them?

Because that's not Vegeta's part in this story. Vegeta's opponent was never Goku, Granolah, or even the Heeters, but rather his opponent has always been himself. The fact that he set aside the same pride that he fell victim to just a few chapters ago when he turned on Goku in order to give up all his energy to Goku so that he can go after Gas shows that he's winning that fight. That sort of narcissistic pride that he showboats around to cover up all the pain, insecurity, self-doubt, self-torture, and misery he's been carrying around since he was a little kid is what has been his downfall all along, and it's been the one obstacle that's been standing in his way of becoming the truly strong, badass warrior he's always tried so hard to be, so literally THE MOST badass thing he could've done in this moment in regards to his own battle was not to fall victim to it again, but to overcome it. He finally did that by not barging in and taking over the fight and trying to show everyone else around him that he's the "strongest" like he did when the fight with Granolah first started, and instead making a move that proves to himself that his ego no longer controls him the way it always has, but rather he controls it. And on a side note, that's probably gonna be the very thing that leads him to master his new Ultra Ego technique. So for him to rein in his ego and give up his advantage to Goku in order for there to be a just ending to this situation rather than to sabotage it and risk everyone's lives by trying to satiate his insecurity yet again is one of the most awesome steps forward we've ever seen Vegeta taking in his own personal development, and honestly, it was probably the best moment of the entire chapter. So by doing that, Vegeta already won the fight.

[batistabus]

That's just punches and kicks though. That's boring. I want characters who are linked interacting with each other. You spend so much time in the arc connecting Granolah, Vegeta and the Heeters, and then you have it come down to Goku? Why? Because of a father he never knew nor expressed any interest in learning about? That's big lame.

Everything has to jive, so strategy should still factor in. The Goku/Bardock thing is (albeit slowly) showing us another shade of Goku. We can judge the full execution at the end, but for now, it's still more of a personal connection than Gas x Vegeta.

Not really much of a plan. They have an antagonistic relationship with Frieza, and are evil. I didn't even register them wanting to take over as a "plan" because it's such an obvious eventuality. It's like a lion killing you because it doesn't want anyone to know it's going to attack a gazelle. I mean, okay?

They have a functional business relationship with Freeza. I'm sure Freeza doesn't trust them, but so far, Heata has served no threat. Now they do, and Elec presumably wants the element of surprise.

It's been a year at this point of characters threatening to finally get serious and end things, only to not.

I guess this is true (of this arc, and to some extent, beyond), but that's where most of the character drama has come from, including the Vegeta stuff.

Hey I only commented once! Well, technically twice now.

You've been saying it!

I just don't personally like having to preface it all with "in my opinion" since I think that's redundant and should be assumed by default in the first place, given the nature of forums and our subjective evaluations of art.

I agree with you there.

[YamiGoku]

There is nothing going on thematically. There are people speculating about what might be going on thematically, but 90% of the replies in this thread have been just that; people predicting future chapters rather than discussing the content of this one. This B plot wasn't even a thing until the climax.

This is irredeemably boring.

I would actually say most replies have been the same people levying the same complaints about this arc month-after-month. This thread has recently become one of the most negative spaces to discuss the DBS manga online. Criticism is part of healthy discussion, but in theory, we're supposed to be fans. No need to drag down people who are enjoying it just because you aren't. If you're not interested, and haven't been for about a year now, perhaps it's time to move along until the new arc begins.

Agreed, Criticism is fine, we can all disagree on something, but, if you feel frustrated with something like this manga (and I get that) please dont try to spread it to the others that are enjoying it (in my case first time in months).