Bootlegs?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Kendamu
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Post by Kendamu » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:41 pm

laserkid wrote:
Kendamu wrote:What exactly does the Chinese mafia do? Do you know exactly what they're into and what kinds of things they do? Is there some sort of text or video to support it? Sure, they're criminals. However, let's not assume that all organized crime syndicates do the exact same thing that you see in Italian Mafia movies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_society

"Their activities include drug trafficking, contract murder, money laundering, gambling, prostitution, car theft, extortion, and other forms of racketeering."

Honestly, what did you THINK a mafia did, play chess?
Of course not. However, not all organized crime rackets are the same nor do they do what they do for the same reasons. Look at the Yakuza. They're semi-legit as is, make their profession publicly known by having public offices and a style of dress that immediately points them out, and (until recently) only did deals with legitimate businesses that were reluctant to get the police involved in certain matters.

That, and the Yakuza provides things like disaster relief.

While they are criminals, they're not the stereotypical types. Sure, they do bad things, but not in the stereotypical fashion. The Yakuza operate in a way that's very Japanese (at least their Japanese branches do) and do things similar to blackmailing large corporations rather than harassing the small businesses.

The worst thing they do is run prostitution rings and smuggle uncensored porn. Half the time, the girls they import from China and the Philippines are, instead of becoming what we'd consider a prostitute, they're instead put to work as hostesses and strippers. Not that those are respectable jobs in many places by any means, but it's a lot better than having sex against your will to line someone else's pockets.

As I don't have a large understanding of Chinese culture, I didn't know exactly how the Triad worked. Were they more similar to the Italians during Prohibition in the US or were they more similar to the Japanese in modern times? That's what I was wanting to know.

So, no, smartass. I wasn't thinking that organized criminals sit around and have European tea parties while wearing ballet clothing or whatever. What I didn't know was if the Triad was the "we fuck with overly-rich and uncaring corporations, act as semi-law enforcement for businesses doing technically illegal things that don't really hurt anyone, provide disaster relief with a decent chunk of our profit, and don't act secretive about what we do at all because we're actually half-legit in terms of an organization" or if they were the stereotypical dirty criminals that are depicted in mafia movies that are based off how "the families" acted during American prohibition.

:evil:

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Post by Xyex » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:51 pm

I ethically don't give a rats ass about the Chinese Mafia, I doubt me not buying DBZ would make their organization collapse.
You do realize that's the exact same mindset that funded the 9/11 attacks, yes? No, it wasn't the Chinese Mafia or Bootlegs. It was middle eastern terror groups and drugs. But at the end of the day it doesn't really make a difference. People still end up dead.
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Post by chibi_goten » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:53 pm

This has gone way too far, you guys should just drop the argument. :(
Daizex Rule 6 wrote: RULE # 6: NO BOOTLEGGING
We do not condone bootlegging. We don't want to hear about your bootleg DVDs. We don't want to hear about how many episodes you've downloaded. Yes, we can tell those screen-caps come from bootleg DVDs and/or downloads. We don't want to hear about how many 320 kbps MP3s you've collected. When it comes down to it, DBZ has had a very rough uprising in various countries, but we're finally at the point where we can legally purchase the things we want and support our fandom. None of us want to hear about anything that goes against this. If you're an actual fan of the property, you pay for things you want. That's the end of the story.

The exception of missing out the triads, I think it expresses the thoughts on bootlegging quite well! :)

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Post by Kendamu » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:03 pm

chibi_goten wrote:This has gone way too far, you guys should just drop the argument. :(
Daizex Rule 6 wrote: RULE # 6: NO BOOTLEGGING
We do not condone bootlegging. We don't want to hear about your bootleg DVDs. We don't want to hear about how many episodes you've downloaded. Yes, we can tell those screen-caps come from bootleg DVDs and/or downloads. We don't want to hear about how many 320 kbps MP3s you've collected. When it comes down to it, DBZ has had a very rough uprising in various countries, but we're finally at the point where we can legally purchase the things we want and support our fandom. None of us want to hear about anything that goes against this. If you're an actual fan of the property, you pay for things you want. That's the end of the story.

The exception of missing out the triads, I think it expresses the thoughts on bootlegging quite well! :)
I don't think any of us are saying "You! Go out and buy bootlegs!"

What's being discussed here is the exact reason as to why it's bad to buy Dragonball bootlegs; not as to whether or not bootlegs are worth buying.

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Post by chibi_goten » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:18 pm

No. So far we've had that bootlegs are good, then no, bootlegs are bad, then bootlegs support the mafia, then bootlegs don't support the mafia, then the mafia are good, then no, the mafia are bad, then do you know about the mafia?

It's a fucking joke, you think people don't know the reasons why bootlegs are bad? It doesn't stop people from going out to buy them. You missed my point about linking the website. Nobody wants to hear about them, and this thread's got past flaming, it's on fire and completely unnecessary.

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Post by Kendamu » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:37 pm

chibi_goten wrote:No. So far we've had that bootlegs are good, then no, bootlegs are bad, then bootlegs support the mafia, then bootlegs don't support the mafia, then the mafia are good, then no, the mafia are bad, then do you know about the mafia?

It's a fucking joke, you think people don't know the reasons why bootlegs are bad? It doesn't stop people from going out to buy them. You missed my point about linking the website. Nobody wants to hear about them, and this thread's got past flaming, it's on fire and completely unnecessary.
Hey! Backseat mod! Chill!

Looking at exactly what you typed, I can point you two obvious things:
So far we've had that bootlegs are good, then no, bootlegs are bad,
1) Right after this, the subject changed a bit to exactly what I told you it had become.
then the mafia are good, then no, the mafia are bad, then do you know about the mafia?
2) Either you're not paying attention or you're sensationalizing. There is no one "mafia" for the entire world and various types of organized crime organizations are being discussed.

Also, nobody is saying that the organized crime syndicates involved in Chinese bootlegs are "good" organizations. You're mish-mashing it in with me asking exactly what the Triads do because I know that crime syndicates operate differently based on the culture of the society they're based in.

And, if nobody wanted to read and talk about this, nobody would be. You're the only one complaining and you're the only one turning this into something other than a legitimate discussion that's on-topic.

If the thread needs closed, Mike will close it. Since it's regarding bootlegs, its likely that this thread is already being closely watched by him, anyway.

Just chill and let us have our discussion until it either dies down or Mike decides that it doesn't need to continue outside of PM.

EDIT: Now that we've established what the Triad does and what Dragonball bootlegs are actually paying for, maybe the discussion can evolve further.

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Post by chibi_goten » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:12 pm

I was going to quote quite a lot heh, but no I don't think it's necessary and regardless of what I post i'm sure you'll come back with something that'll just pull me in again so I'll just cover this one,
Kendamu wrote: There is no one "mafia" for the entire world and various types of organized crime organizations are being discussed.
Yeah I know that. Though what have they got to do with Dragonball? They produce bootlegs that you don't condone, right? So talking about the people that produce these and the reasons of why they do it, that well... that's got nothing to do with Dragonball at all. :?

Oh and you can't avoid the fact they're not legitimate copies that they produce, and the fact that the people who produce the real licensed versions are loosing millions.

Oh and 'chill', :) though the name 'Backseat mod' sounds pretty cool, it's not really appropriate now is it? Do I seem like a moderator? I sincerely apologise if I do.. but I wouldn't say that i'm complaining, I just saw this legitimate discussion as being being a little unnecessary.

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Post by Rory » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:59 pm

chibi_goten wrote:This has gone way too far, you guys should just drop the argument. :(
Image
Never, I must continue my needless bickering to make me feel tough on the internets!

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Post by SSj_Rambo » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:05 pm

Rory wrote:Image
Never, I must continue my needless bickering to make me feel tough on the internets!
That's hilarious, but what are you trying to say, is Kendamu a reincarnation of Vegeta, because I see that as a compliment.

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Post by laserkid » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:40 pm

Uh guys, no seriously chill.

Theres a diffrence between a flame war and a disagreement. What we have here is a disagreement. Not ALL disagreements are flame wars. Now sure, we had a bit of tension but I'd hardly call it a flame war.

That all said I do think what can be said, has been said, bootleg DVDs are more often then not from the chinese mafia, which does exactly what you'd assume a mafia does.

So buying bootlegs has two major problems. First, you're not paying the actual people who made the show, so in essence, you're stealing. Secondly, you're helping to fund the chinese mafia. Certainly, you by yourself don't totally fund it by doing so, but the attitude that you aren't responcible for it is WHY they get funded due to the widespread belief in that, in which a lot of individuals who by themselves aren't soley responcible, but as a group are.

I really don't know what else to say besides all that. And guys, no really, we're just having a discussion where disagreement happens. Easy off the thrusters there.

As an aside Kendamaru, I was more frustrated with neptunekai on the whole "what did you THINK a mafia does" remark, sorry if it came across as attacking you.
-Laserkid

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Post by Captain Awesome » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:05 pm

I'm much more content helping fund Funimation's evil empire, mostly because the only deaths associated with them were the suicides in the wake of Season 3.

The worst thing about people buying bootlegs in my opinion is, if you're going to steal, why the hell are you paying for it.

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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:38 pm

STOP DROP AND ROLL!!

Image

Alright, is everyone safe? Good.

Let's break this down for everyone, intelligent and intellectually deficient can understand.

1 - Bootlegs are bad.

2 - Bootlegs deprive FUNI of funds

3 - Fund deprived FUNI deprives Toei of funds

4 - Fund deprived Toei stops releasing DragonBall to North America due to a lack of sales.

5 - Everyone loses.

6 - ????

7 - PROFIT!

8 -
The worst thing about people buying bootlegs in my opinion is, if you're going to steal, why the hell are you paying for it.
/thread

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:47 pm

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote: A bunch of shiz

I like how the topic was resolved and neatly ready to die up until you thought "LAWL I CAN MAKE A FUNNY" and attempted to create another argument. There were no flame wars and all of your "points" were discussed and debated against and for. The only thing you did for this thread was make a bad joke and bump it. Nice job buddy, nice job.

Edit: and that isn't to say you couldn't chime in with your OWN opinion but your post basically consisted of "HERE IS the FINAL W0RD!1!!! OMG UR ALL R BOOTLEGERS SO STUPID!" that wasn't exactly needed.
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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:10 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote: A bunch of shiz

I like how the topic was resolved and neatly ready to die up until you thought "LAWL I CAN MAKE A FUNNY" and attempted to create another argument. There were no flame wars and all of your "points" were discussed and debated against and for. The only thing you did for this thread was make a bad joke and bump it. Nice job buddy, nice job.

Edit: and that isn't to say you couldn't chime in with your OWN opinion but your post basically consisted of "HERE IS the FINAL W0RD!1!!! OMG UR ALL R BOOTLEGERS SO STUPID!" that wasn't exactly needed.
Please, take a deep breath, re-read my post, and then attempt to prove anything you just said.

You saw:
6 - ????

7 - PROFIT!

/thread
And decided I was trolling. Nice way to make yourself look ignorant. If you read my post, you would have seen:
Bootlegs are bad and deprive FUNI of funds, which in turn deprives Toei of funds. I fear that this would make Toei stop releasing DragonBall in North America due to a lack of sales.
tl;dr :

Let's just go ahead and rejoice that we've successfully ended a disagreement.

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:21 pm

If you'd stop to read the thread you'd know all of your points have been debated before, you stated all of your arguments as if they were new and better yet "the final word" basically you revived a dying topic to restate something that we've all talked about already. Maybe you should have read something besides the last page before making smart ass comments. :roll:
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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:54 pm

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I fear that this would make Toei stop releasing DragonBall in North America due to a lack of sales.
No one has mentioned a possibility of Toei not allowing FUNI or any other North American company to distribute DragonBall. We've talked about how it takes money from FUNI/Toei, and how it funds the Chinese Mafia. Just because I haven't actively been posting in a topic doesn't mean I don't read it.

Which, steering back on topic here, would suck for us. If Toei just stopped allowing DBZ to be distributed then we would lose the possibility of a proper release all together. Not to mention, if they decided to not allow Spike or any other company to distribute DragonBall games to foreign countries, you'd have to buy foreign consoles to play the games on, which would suck tremendously.

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Post by Kendamu » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:17 pm

Rory wrote:
chibi_goten wrote:This has gone way too far, you guys should just drop the argument. :(
Image
Never, I must continue my needless bickering to make me feel tough on the internets!
That's fucking hilarious!

I think I'm gonna keep it!

Thank you for taking the Internet seriously enough to edit my head onto a Vegeta picture instead of countering my valid points.

Anywho, you have no room to talk. You make needless pictures of try and make fun of me (to feel tough on the Internets) and make me feel bad when all you did was make me really happy.

EDIT AGAIN: No need for me to double post.
chibi_goten wrote:I was going to quote quite a lot heh, but no I don't think it's necessary and regardless of what I post i'm sure you'll come back with something that'll just pull me in again so I'll just cover this one,
Kendamu wrote: There is no one "mafia" for the entire world and various types of organized crime organizations are being discussed.
Yeah I know that. Though what have they got to do with Dragonball? They produce bootlegs that you don't condone, right? So talking about the people that produce these and the reasons of why they do it, that well... that's got nothing to do with Dragonball at all. :?
Talking about the organizations that make bootlegs is similar to talking about the business practices of VIZ, Toei, FUNimation, Jump, Atari, Bandai, or Bird Studios. The difference is that we're talking about the people who make illegal copies. So I don't see the problem.
Oh and 'chill', :) though the name 'Backseat mod' sounds pretty cool, it's not really appropriate now is it? Do I seem like a moderator? I sincerely apologise if I do.. but I wouldn't say that i'm complaining, I just saw this legitimate discussion as being being a little unnecessary.
Well, you just kinda came in and told us to shut up when we're really nothing bothering anybody. It's not like we're making multiple topics about it, letting our disagreements spread to other threads, and generally disrupting the forum. You seem like you're trying to be a backseat mod.

I mean, the latest VIZ topic about censorship was closed very quickly after it was made because it was unnecessary. If this thread was really that bad, we would've either seen some very stern words from Mike or the thread would've been closed.

By continuing this discussion between me and you about the legitimacy of this thread, we're actually more likely to run the risk of it being closed because it's just turning into a flame war. I mean, look at that hilarious picture of me! Do you really think that that's on topic?

Seriously, though, I like the picture. It made my day. It's better than any other way I've ever made fun of myself for liking discussion forums so much.

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Post by Sebastian (SB) » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:17 pm

Needless advertising but, buy the DB Manga instead! More consistent art, No black bars, More content for half the price of a Season Set! Best of all, you're supporting Toriyama more directly! (Ignore the Viz Big though)
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Post by Kendamu » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:28 pm

Sebastian (SB) wrote:Needless advertising but, buy the DB Manga instead! More consistent art, No black bars, More content for half the price of a Season Set! Best of all, you're supporting Toriyama more directly! (Ignore the Viz Big though)
Good suggestion! Also, they're more easily portable!

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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:36 pm

Kendamu wrote:
Sebastian (SB) wrote:Needless advertising but, buy the DB Manga instead! More consistent art, No black bars, More content for half the price of a Season Set! Best of all, you're supporting Toriyama more directly! (Ignore the Viz Big though)
Good suggestion! Also, they're more easily portable!
Agreed. You even get the source with less filler!

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