Toyotaro must stop copying kishimoto

[KentMan]

Kishimoto didn't come up with any of that. There's been plenty of "avenger of my race/clan" characters in manga and anime before Sasuke Uchiha appeared. Kurapika from HxH comes to mind, but there's much more.

Hell, even Dragon Ball did it before Kishimoto, with characters like Baby and Hatchiyak/Dr. Raichi.
As for ninja techniques, did Gas use any shurikens (or rasenshurikens for that matter) in his latest fights?

Also, even if Toyotaro did "copy" anything, since pretty much all modern battle shounen are influenced by Dragon Ball, I don't see the problem with Toriyama's succesor doing the same with a couple ideas he likes from these modern series.

however it's not just that...granolah is being manipulated to go against the "good guys" + uses clones







It's embarrassing... naruto eww... also the battles don't feel like dragon ball at all and most importantly it's absurd... characters destroy galaxies and now using ninja weapons

Kunais aren’t new to Naruto dude some of these weapons were common among Samurai and Shinobi

[Kakarotto92]

however it's not just that...granolah is being manipulated to go against the "good guys" + uses clones

Majin Vegeta.

Clones? Tenshinhan in the 23rd TB.

It's embarrassing... naruto eww... also the battles don't feel like dragon ball at all and most importantly it's absurd... characters destroy galaxies and now using ninja weapons

Future Trunks killed freaking Freeza (the strongest villain in the series at that point) with a sword. Yajirobe cut off Oozaru Vegeta's tail. Kuririn almost killed Vegeta with Yajirobe's sword. Dabura also used a sword.

It's no different if ninja weapons being used by characters that can destroy galaxies, can wound other characters that can destroy galaxies.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Tbh nitpicking about weapons is going a lil overboard especially when Vegetto has done it with a sword & Goku Black with his scythe. If anything I’m glad they are using ki/magic/w.e to make weapons to fight. I’ve always said Goku should have already had a ki based Nyoibo he can generate.

[Tai Lung]

Majin Vegeta.

Vegeta was never manipulated to avenge the death of his race... and he allowed himself to be dominated by Babidi's magic, watch the series again...

Clones? Tenshinhan in the 23rd TB..

The difference is that Tenshinhan's clones don't "go up in smoke" like Naruto and Granolah's.

Future Trunks killed freaking Freeza (the strongest villain in the series at that point) with a sword. Yajirobe cut off Oozaru Vegeta's tail. Kuririn almost killed Vegeta with Yajirobe's sword. Dabura also used a sword.

It's no different if ninja weapons being used by characters that can destroy galaxies, can wound other characters that can destroy galaxies.

and goku was almost killed by an ax when he was a child that doesn't mean he's coherent now... when his power has increased and more than 10 sagas have already passed

If it is very different .... because goku is transformed into SSB and even in the Zamasu saga an energy sword was used for trunks, the same for caway and Kahseral

The gas thing is just steel and a stupid train

[Aim]

Yes seriously... after so much shit that I have seen in the previous chapter and the current one it is clear to me that Toyotaro is only recycling things that he has seen in the generic shonen and forgetting what made dragon ball feel like dragon ball .. .
-we have granola as an avenger of his race as sasuke
-we have gas using ninja techniques... capable of damaging planet destroying guys....
-we have flashback after flashback of the main character's father as an eternal fanservice....
what's next now?

Toyotaro can not hold a good story for long. His imagination kind of dissipates after a while and he’s just the furthest we have had from a Toriyama successor in terms of story. Give me Naho Ooishi any day.

[Kakarotto92]

Vegeta was never manipulated to avenge the death of his race...

He was "manipulated to go against the good guys", which is what you said in that quote.

and he allowed himself to be dominated by Babidi's magic, watch the series again...

He kind of allowed it, but if it wasn't for Babidi, Vegeta wouldn't have turned against Goku and the others so soon. They would have probably reached the last floor, kill Babidi and Dabura, Boo would remain sealed, and then they'd have their rematch.

The difference is that Tenshinhan's clones don't "go up in smoke" like Naruto and Granolah's.

That happens in plenty of anime, not just Naruto. We had Piccolo's clones disappearing once they were hit in the Universe 6 tournament, so if anything the Super anime did it before Toyo.

The gas thing is just steel and a stupid train

These aren't regular weapons, Gas created them himself (most likely with his ki).

[Dragon Wukong]

however it's not just that...granolah is being manipulated to go against the "good guys" + uses clones







It's embarrassing... naruto eww... also the battles don't feel like dragon ball at all and most importantly it's absurd... characters destroy galaxies and now using ninja weapons

...You're comparing a proper Ball and Chain to Tenten throwing a spiked ball?

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Yes seriously... after so much shit that I have seen in the previous chapter and the current one it is clear to me that Toyotaro is only recycling things that he has seen in the generic shonen and forgetting what made dragon ball feel like dragon ball .. .
-we have granola as an avenger of his race as sasuke
-we have gas using ninja techniques... capable of damaging planet destroying guys....
-we have flashback after flashback of the main character's father as an eternal fanservice....
what's next now?

Toyotaro can not hold a good story for long. His imagination kind of dissipates after a while and he’s just the furthest we have had from a Toriyama successor in terms of story. Give me Naho Ooishi any day.

she’s not any better if that Bardock “what if” story she wrote is anything to go by that was terrible. But her art is better than Toyotaros but not by much.

In terms of Art the only people that should be (but aren’t) in the running for successor is Fenyo or Owzki.

As far as Story the fans have everyone beat in terms of originality and creativity.

[Grimlock]

What's "terrible" about Bardock OVA? I think it's a nice bridge from Toei's Bardock to modern Bardock in a way. By saving Plantseijins, he unconsciously "develops" a bit of sense of protection towards other races, which we would later see in Dragon Ball Online and Granola saga.

Unless your beef is about Bardock turning Super Saiyan, which obviously isn't her fault. She got to work with what was given to her, Bardock was getting Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball Heroes, so obviously the theme had to be that. But if you have a better idea, please do post it here, I would like to take a look myself (needless to say "not giving Super Saiyan to Bardock at all is a better idea" doesn't count).

[Aim]

Yes seriously... after so much shit that I have seen in the previous chapter and the current one it is clear to me that Toyotaro is only recycling things that he has seen in the generic shonen and forgetting what made dragon ball feel like dragon ball .. .
-we have granola as an avenger of his race as sasuke
-we have gas using ninja techniques... capable of damaging planet destroying guys....
-we have flashback after flashback of the main character's father as an eternal fanservice....
what's next now?

Toyotaro can not hold a good story for long. His imagination kind of dissipates after a while and he’s just the furthest we have had from a Toriyama successor in terms of story. Give me Naho Ooishi any day.

she’s not any better if that Bardock “what if” story she wrote is anything to go by that was terrible. But her art is better than Toyotaros but not by much.

In terms of Art the only people that should be (but aren’t) in the running for successor is Fenyo or Owzki.

As far as Story the fans have everyone beat in terms of originality and creativity.

She’s far better than Toyotaro lol. Art wise she’s not as good as fighting scenes, but she captures Toriyama’s vibe so much better, Toyotaro just feels like overdone fan art. Also, I don’t know if she wrote the Episode of Burdack. But regardless it’s already a bad concept, not much you can do in a couple chapters.

Also, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up Knewsky? He is the absolute only one that should be considered Toriyama’s successor.

Also, Episode of Burdack had really nice visuals.

[Tai Lung]

however it's not just that...granolah is being manipulated to go against the "good guys" + uses clones







It's embarrassing... naruto eww... also the battles don't feel like dragon ball at all and most importantly it's absurd... characters destroy galaxies and now using ninja weapons

...You're comparing a proper Ball and Chain to Tenten throwing a spiked ball?

and both are heavy attacks and explode

He was "manipulated to go against the good guys", which is what you said in that quote.

and i also said that granolah is the avenger of his race

and he allowed himself to be dominated by Babidi's magic, watch the series again...

He kind of allowed it, but if it wasn't for Babidi, Vegeta wouldn't have turned against Goku and the others so soon. They would have probably reached the last floor, kill Babidi and Dabura, Boo would remain sealed, and then they'd have their rematch.[/quote]

yes but it was because basically it was what vegeta wanted to face goku regardless of buu

That happens in plenty of anime, not just Naruto. We had Piccolo's clones disappearing once they were hit in the Universe 6 tournament, so if anything the Super anime did it before Toyo.

piccolo's disappeared in classic speed flashes no as granolah

These aren't regular weapons, Gas created them himself (most likely with his ki).

well it doesn't seem like it considering there are no flashes on them like trunks



and still 18 broke them

[PurestEvil]

These aren't regular weapons, Gas created them himself (most likely with his ki).

well it doesn't seem like it considering there are no flashes on them like trunks



and still 18 broke them

What? Trunks' sword was not spontaneously created with his ki, it's a normal steel blade. The yellow flashes are coming from his SSJ ki, not the sword itself.

[Tai Lung]

These aren't regular weapons, Gas created them himself (most likely with his ki).

well it doesn't seem like it considering there are no flashes on them like trunks



and still 18 broke them

What? Trunks' sword was not spontaneously created with his ki, it's a normal steel blade. The yellow flashes are coming from his SSJ ki, not the sword itself.

it has been theorized that characters can cover objects with ki empowering it...
but it has been shown that this has limits

[SupremeKai25]

it has been theorized that characters can cover objects with ki empowering it...
but it has been shown that this has limits

It's not a theory, it's a fact. That's how Trunks created his sword of love and friendship. By "rebuilding" it with Ki.

https://youtu.be/wbiWzUCNnd8?t=107


Why are we also ignoring that Zamasu could already create all sorts of Ki weapons (a sword, a scythe, even a bird-like giant)? What Gas does is nothing unique. Like, at all.

[Cipher]

I love that this thread is just people posting good action pages that involve kunai and other weapons now.

Which only one comic can do, apparently.

[JulieYBM]

I love that this thread is just people posting good action pages that involve kunai and other weapons now.

Which only one comic can do, apparently.

Mom say I'm only allowed to like one comic.

[Aim]

it has been theorized that characters can cover objects with ki empowering it...
but it has been shown that this has limits

It's not a theory, it's a fact. That's how Trunks created his sword of love and friendship. By "rebuilding" it with Ki.

https://youtu.be/wbiWzUCNnd8?t=107


Why are we also ignoring that Zamasu could already create all sorts of Ki weapons (a sword, a scythe, even a bird-like giant)? What Gas does is nothing unique. Like, at all.

It would be more unique if they were made out of ki

[Saimaroimaru]

Nothing is original. Dragonball borrows from stories that came before it, and it will draw elements from other stories currently out as it continues. It's all about the execution at the end of the day. Look at Black Clover, you can point out all of the stereotypical shonen stuff in it and still find it enjoyable since it just marches on and does it thing.

Some of the most famous works in fiction pulled from previous works or even history. Harry Potter's Horcruxes are clearly inspired by LOTR's One Ring, and yet they are different enough at the same time. GOT pulls from British history to create some of its most fascinating scenes like the Red Wedding being based on the Black Dinner & Glencoe Massacre.

And let's not even go into how Kishimoto borrowed from his own culture's stories in order to make his own stories (Otsutsuki clan are a giant reference to the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter), nor is he the first to have his story end up basically ending in an alien takeover plot(I remember Hosin Engi going this route). Or the whole genetics leading to ninja family superpowers is pulled straight from The Kouga Ninja Scrolls.

It least it isn't Nick Simmon's Incarnate that was just straight up trace.

[Sora Saiyan]

This thread sure is something. I'm not sure if it's blind hate for what Toyo does or something, but honestly speaking there doesn't seem to be much critical thinking going on. Leaps in logic, and such huge reaches that I should contact NASA cause it appears humans have already reached Mars.

Like seriously weapons, and eye powers haven't been exclusive to Kishimotos work (Kurapikas story is closer to Granolahs), and the way weapons were utilised by Gas was incredibly cool and not limited to any style of weaponry. Against Granolah he utilised multiple weapons and not just "ninja" weapons. In his bout against Goku he actually felt like a godly final boss thanks to his mastery of matter and enviroment manipulation.

Gas is just that, a master in matter, and enviromental manipulation. I don't know what more needs to be said. Granolah has an eye power and he wanted revenge against another species. Revenge stories are common place in manga. Honestly nit pick enough and make vast reaches in logic and everything ever will be a carbon copy of dot dot dot.

Oh I wanted to add that I've seen a comment saying that Granolahs clones poof out like Narutos. In answer to that it's not even close, I went through the naruto manga to confirm, but yeah, not even remotely close in appearance to the shadow clones poof.

[Saimaroimaru]

There is a strain of jealously among certain corners of the community that are mad that they weren't chosen to head up what we now know as DB Super. It doesn't matter if your idea sounds better on paper, you aren't writing a novel, but drawing & penning an manga series. At least Toyotaro put in the work over time and was chosen.

Do I think DBS is some masterpiece? No, but I never expected the DB franchise to have award winning writing, regardless who is in charge of the story.