Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[ZombieVito]

Blue is just Super Saiyan stacked on top of SSG, that's explained quite clearly back in RoF, that means Vegeta could've used SSG all along and just chose not to for some reason.

He only decides to do it in Broly? Toriyama writing it in the movie clearly shows how much of Toyotaro he puts into them. I remember on this site there was a interview that was done by Tori and Toyo where Toriyama was glad they were using Toyotaro manga as a reference. And that should keep them on track.

But Goku said Moro was the strongest he's faced so he's stronger than Jiren and yet he's not mentioned in the bio.

He said he’s the tougher which was actually debated on what that means

But Moro fought a stronger UI Goku and only lost because his body couldn't handle the power.

[KentMan]

But Moro fought a stronger UI Goku and only lost because his body couldn't handle the power.

How much stronger do you think Goku has gotten since the TOP to the Moro arc?

[Lukmendes]

He only decides to do it in Broly? Toriyama writing it in the movie clearly shows how much of Toyotaro he puts into them. I remember on this site there was a interview that was done by Tori and Toyo where Toriyama was glad they were using Toyotaro manga as a reference. And that should keep them on track.

I think he said he had to ask for less corrections when compared with the anime... But someone would have to get that interview to confirm it, been forever since I read that.

I think Vegeta mentioned it after Goku was remembering the ToP. If someone only watches the films, they would know some tournament took place between RoF and Broly and Freeza helped his universe win which is how he was resurrected.

Just checked it out and you're right, while they didn't directly say that Freeza's resurrection was related to ToP, it's at least heavily implied by the way the conversation was going.

Still, if they're making the movies with audiences who don't watch the anime in mind, something as big as Freeza being resurrected at all with no flashbacks is huge, you can get what's going on, but it can sound odd anyways.

[ZombieVito]

But Moro fought a stronger UI Goku and only lost because his body couldn't handle the power.

How much stronger do you think Goku has gotten since the TOP to the Moro arc?

Did you read the arc? It was said that both Goku and Vegeta grew a lot more powerful in the arc from their respective trainings.

There's no way Jiren or Broly are stronger than Moro.

[KentMan]

Did you read the arc? It was said that both Goku and Vegeta grew a lot more powerful in the arc from their respective trainings.

There's no way Jiren or Broly are stronger than Moro.

I doubt they got a whole lot stronger but that depends on the comparison of Goku and Beerus. All of this can help to get some idea on how strong the boys are in the new movie.

How strong is Jiren and Broly compared to Vegeta blue evolution form when he fought Beerus?

[Skar]

Still, if they're making the movies with audiences who don't watch the anime in mind, something as big as Freeza being resurrected at all with no flashbacks is huge, you can get what's going on, but it can sound odd anyways.

They kinda work as a trilogy since the only DBS returning characters and transformations appeared in the two previous films. BoG revealed the multiverse so the followup would be the tournament Goku mentioned that also led to Freeza being resurrected again after RoF. If you're someone who only watches the films, you wouldn't know there were actually three arcs between RoF and Broly, other gods above Beerus, any new forms above Blue, or return of other characters that didn't appear in the films like Future Trunks and #17.

A funny example is that I have a friend who usually only watches anime films. When we were talking about Broly, I said "I wonder why Gohan didn't show up to help" and his response was "you saw him in the last movie. He doesn't train anymore and probably even weaker now". Broly doesn't bring up Gohan or that he participated in the tournament Goku talked about so RoF was the last time he saw Gohan. It might also apply to Super Hero. He might not be confused seeing SSJ Gohan again since that's what Gohan used in his last film appearance.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Still, if they're making the movies with audiences who don't watch the anime in mind, something as big as Freeza being resurrected at all with no flashbacks is huge, you can get what's going on, but it can sound odd anyways.

They kinda work as a trilogy since the only DBS returning characters and transformations appeared in the two previous films. BoG revealed the multiverse so the followup would be the tournament Goku mentioned that also led to Freeza being resurrected again after RoF. If you're someone who only watches the films, you wouldn't know there were actually three arcs between RoF and Broly, other gods above Beerus, any new forms above Blue, or return of other characters that didn't appear in the films like Future Trunks and #17.

A funny example is that I have a friend who usually only watches anime films. When we were talking about Broly, I said "I wonder why Gohan didn't show up to help" and his response was "you saw him in the last movie. He doesn't train anymore and probably even weaker now". Broly doesn't bring up Gohan or that he participated in the tournament Goku talked about so RoF was the last time he saw Gohan. It might also apply to Super Hero. He might not be confused seeing SSJ Gohan again since that's what Gohan used in his last film appearance.

That last point would also be a good segue into Gohan pulling out Ultimate.

He can say he's been keeping up with his training since Freeza returned, and that's not wrong; the details are in the anime, but it's a fairly intuitive and simple answer that clarifies things even if people only watched the films.

[Grimlock]

The thing about Gohan and his forms is a bit weird, though:

Four years after Majin Buu saga, he uses Ultimate against Beerus. One year after that, he uses Super Saiyan against Freeza. Three years after that, he uses Super Saiyan and Ultimate against random dudes. A possible conclusion to have is that Gohan may simply choose what transformation he'll use.

Gohan had no problem transforming into Ultimate again after four years, but he somehow "lost" it after that and trained to regain it for the Universe Survival saga (which is something one should have in mind, even by those who don't watch the anime), which takes place just two years after the last time he used Ultimate.

And that's where we are now, either they will take into consideration Gohan and Piccolo training, in which the movie wouldn't have to explain how he got Ultimate back, or the movie will waste time with another situation for Gohan to get it back, or it may be at least implied that Gohan never lost it, and can transform into Ultimate whenever he wants (we'd be drawn to assume he simply chose not to use it against Freeza).

It's becoming one of those situations which we can only " " and be done with it. To be frank, I'd prefer the latter to be true, Gohan chooses which form he'll use. None of them have drawbacks, but Ultimate can be an overkill in some situations, so it's best to use Super Saiyan (and if Dende exists, Super Saiyan 2 as well) to test his opponents, also in a similar case as Goku and Vegeta, who sometimes use their lower forms of Super Saiyan before recoloring it.

[Koitsukai]

The thing about Gohan and his forms is a bit weird, though:

Four years after Majin Buu saga, he uses Ultimate against Beerus. One year after that, he uses Super Saiyan against Freeza. Three years after that, he uses Super Saiyan and Ultimate against random dudes. A possible conclusion to have is that Gohan may simply choose what transformation he'll use.

Gohan had no problem transforming into Ultimate again after four years, but he somehow "lost" it after that and trained to regain it for the Universe Survival saga (which is something one should have in mind, even by those who don't watch the anime), which takes place just two years after the last time he used Ultimate.

And that's where we are now, either they will take into consideration Gohan and Piccolo training, in which the movie wouldn't have to explain how he got Ultimate back, or the movie will waste time with another situation for Gohan to get it back, or it may be at least implied that Gohan never lost it, and can transform into Ultimate whenever he wants (we'd be drawn to assume he simply chose not to use it against Freeza).

It's becoming one of those situations which we can only " " and be done with it. To be frank, I'd prefer the latter to be true, Gohan chooses which form he'll use. None of them have drawbacks, but Ultimate can be an overkill in some situations, so it's best to use Super Saiyan (and if Dende exists, Super Saiyan 2 as well) to test his opponents, also in a similar case as Goku and Vegeta, who sometimes use their lower forms of Super Saiyan before recoloring it.

Even better, Gohan went SS for the SSG ritual... 30 minutes after using Ultimate.

Seeing how in RoF he didn't even have the confidence of turning SS anymore, maybe Beerus knocked the ultimate out of him

[Block88]

So what I miss

[KentMan]

So what I miss

Not much just mutual fellows arguing about canon the power between Broly Jiren and Beerus Gohan and Piccolo and their forms and there’s a little more if you wanna head back a bit

[Grimlock]

Even better, Gohan went SS for the SSG ritual... 30 minutes after using Ultimate.

Seeing how in RoF he didn't even have the confidence of turning SS anymore, maybe Beerus knocked the ultimate out of him

I feel that could be a good explanation, perhaps. Gohan felt he lost Ultimate so much so that he thought he couldn't even reach Super Saiyan. Who knows what's going on with Gohan and his forms anymore.

[Saturnine]

I feel that could be a good explanation, perhaps. Gohan felt he lost Ultimate so much so that he thought he couldn't even reach Super Saiyan. Who knows what's going on with Gohan and his forms anymore.

I think Mythical Gohan is here to stay, he ain't gone anywhere. Also it'd be a bit comical if he didn't have it after Piccolo goes and finally gets a new form too!

[KentMan]

Does this look like a new form to anyone?

[budokaifanatic007]

Does this look like a new form to anyone?

Its his new form :https://twitter.com/DB_super2015/status ... e-gohan%2F

[PurestEvil]

Ultimate PISSccolo!

[UpFromTheSkies]

But Moro fought a stronger UI Goku and only lost because his body couldn't handle the power.

How much stronger do you think Goku has gotten since the TOP to the Moro arc?

Did you read the arc? It was said that both Goku and Vegeta grew a lot more powerful in the arc from their respective trainings.

There's no way Jiren or Broly are stronger than Moro.

Unless they've been training. Considering Broly was as powerful as he was without any real training, he could possibly be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta at this point.

[ZeroNeonix]

Power scaling in Dragon Ball makes no sense. We're told that Jiren beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Goku is stronger than Jiren now, but still no match for Beerus? Goku and Vegeta were no match for Broly, and had to fuse AND go Blue to surpass Broly's Full Power Super Saiyan strength. Granola wishes to be the strongest mortal alive, so logically, he's stronger than Broly now. Goku and Vegeta get stronger to match or surpass Granola, so now they're each stronger than Broly? How much stronger could they have possibly gotten? The both of them are stronger than Gogeta was back then? That seems like quite a gap for them to leap.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Power scaling in Dragon Ball makes no sense. We're told that Jiren beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Goku is stronger than Jiren now, but still no match for Beerus? Goku and Vegeta were no match for Broly, and had to fuse AND go Blue to surpass Broly's Full Power Super Saiyan strength. Granola wishes to be the strongest mortal alive, so logically, he's stronger than Broly now. Goku and Vegeta get stronger to match or surpass Granola, so now they're each stronger than Broly? How much stronger could they have possibly gotten? The both of them are stronger than Gogeta was back then? That seems like quite a gap for them to leap.

It was a God of Destruction that beat Beerus (Quitela in the manga and properly also the anime). And beating someone in a arm wrestling match does not mean they can win in a straight up fight.

[Koitsukai]

Power scaling in Dragon Ball makes no sense. We're told that Jiren beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Goku is stronger than Jiren now, but still no match for Beerus? Goku and Vegeta were no match for Broly, and had to fuse AND go Blue to surpass Broly's Full Power Super Saiyan strength. Granola wishes to be the strongest mortal alive, so logically, he's stronger than Broly now. Goku and Vegeta get stronger to match or surpass Granola, so now they're each stronger than Broly? How much stronger could they have possibly gotten? The both of them are stronger than Gogeta was back then? That seems like quite a gap for them to leap.

I think you have everything mixed up, Jiren never met Beerus prior to the ToP.
The arm wrestling match was between Beerus and Quitela (in the manga), and vs Vermouth in the anime.
Jiren is stronger than Vermouth, and therefore implied to be above Beerus. That's the anime, though.
In the manga, Quitela is said to be above Beerus, yet their fight in the Exhibition Match implies otherwise, so Beerus might've been right that an arm wrestling match means nothing after all. And if that applies to the anime as well, then Beerus is not below Vermouth, Jiren or Goku there either.

In the manga, no comparison is ever made between U7 and U11 GoDs, we only have Vermouth avoiding direct confrontation, take that as you like...

UI Goku against Moro should definitely be above Gogeta, yes. He took out Moro73 faster than Gogeta did with Broly, who was dodging attacks, while Goku was literally tanking and breaking wrists... and now he is much stronger, and probably will get even stronger if he goes silver vs Gas.

By now, everybody is stronger than what was seen in the previous movie, buuut... Broly surely got a huge zenkai, and has been training, so he will be a top contender again.