Aim wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:50 am
You do realise that just because in
some circumstances things work out doesn’t mean we should have laws where “grey” areas are accounted for. We don’t live in a world where young people are taught these kinds of things and the amount of abuse that comes out of relationships makes it already too risky. This is the cost of protecting most people, some “okay” relationships will be caught out. I’m fine with that.
But there
are laws where these grey areas are accounted for. They're called Romeo and Juliet laws or European age of consent laws. You're severely underestimating the extent young people mature earlier in modern times and the degree of agency they can have over their own body. You're taking away people's body autonomy by forbidding relationships based on arbitrary reasons.
Obviously no one here is talking about a 19 and 20 year old, this is 4 years, some cases almost 5. This is a huge gap between an adult and a teenager.
There is no significant difference between someone in their first year of high-school and their last. Maybe you Americans have your own social cliques where everyone sticks to people in their years but it's not uncommon anywhere else in the world to see younger and older kids in the same social circle at school.
Oh boy.
No, there actually is, the brain only finishing development at 25 doesn’t prove the point you think it does. The development of a 16 year old compared to a 20 year old is vast, which is why we typically don’t encourage these relationships. This isn’t the same as a 26 year old dating a 30 year old, this is a person in adolescence.
The difference between a 25 year old and a 20 year old in terms of brain development is also vast, should we legislate against those relationships too?
And I'd argue the difference between them in regards to power and maturity is higher than a 20 and a 16 year old as in the latter case both are broke whereas someone in their mid 20s can already have stable income, a house, car and etc.
That isn’t how it works. Being wealthy doesn’t automatically make a young person on the same level of power or above an older person. Extroversion doesn’t mean power either. If anything it makes it easier for the 20 year old to exploit the situation if they are in with a 16 year old.
You don't know how power dynamics work if you're seriously arguing wealth doesn't make a difference. Anyone wealthy is more powerful than someone who is broke as long as they're at an age where their wealth can have an influence in the world, which teenagehood most certainly qualifies as.
Maturity doesn’t mean you can pick up on coercive and manipulative behaviours of partners. Also, we are talking about partners here, if a 20 year old incel ended up with a 16 year old girl, that girl obviously has had the wool pooled over her eyes. This just affirms my point.
Picking up on manipulative social behavior is a sign of maturity.
That's not the point. The point is that a 16 year old person can be more mature than a 20 year old one. You argued the problem was a maturity issue, now you're moving the goalposts. You're aware young people can be coercive and manipulative as well?
No. I’m going by development and stages in life. A 20 year old is far removed from a 16 year old. The lines become further cemented if the person has just turned 16, even more yikes. You’re argument is “But sometimes it’s okay”, and like I’ve said, I don’t mind if occasionally it works out, that’s not usually the case though, again, if you think 16 and 20 year olds are typically on the same playing field you’re not looking at this objectively.
My argument is that we should look at this on a case by case basis rather than condemning people based on axiomatic truths like you're doing.
How is a 20 year old far removed from a 16 year old if he's failed high-school twice and he's still there? Or if he's a NEET with his last fond memories of life being high-school? What exactly separates the two?
This doesn’t matter. I’ve explained already there’s maturing that’s done from 16 to 20, 4 - 5 years. This is an adolescent we are talking about as opposed to someone who has come out of it.
And as I said, the brain does not stop developing until 25, so there's as much of a gap between a 25 year old and a 21 year old. I think you're stuck in the arbitrary "18" age which does not make one an adult over night. Experiences make people adults. A 17 year old in college with his own dorm is more of an adult than a 24 year old high-school dropout still living with his parents with no job.
Oh no. Please don’t be like this. I specifically used you saying that because something sometimes works out it means it’s not bad. Just because things have worked out doesn’t mean they always do. The fact is this is an adolescent in their mid teens in a relationship is someone who has finished and moved into adulthood. A stark difference here, whether you like it or not.
Nobody said they always worked out, relationships don't always work out. Manipulative and coercive relationships can exist outside of age differences. I've specifically been saying multiple times they're a case by case basis and my argument is that generally public perception should understand why most first-world countries understandably legislate exceptions between age differences of young adults since there's not as big of a difference between an 18 year old and a 15 year old as Twitter would have you think.
