Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

[FoolsGil]

Lets think about it for a moment, Vegeta in DBZ has done so many things wrong yet he was given was many chance. Here are the examples:

Saiyan Saga
Killing Goku friends and wanting to kill everyone on earth.
Attempting to blow up the earth.

Namek Saga
Steal Namek Dragon Ball.
Kill Namekians.
Planning to kill the good guys.

Android and Cell Saga
Killing the truck driver, even if it is accidental.
Letting Cell escape to get his perfect form.
Attacking anyone that wanted to kill Cell.

Buu Saga
Getting possessed on purpose.
Killing innocent people, just to force Goku to fight him. If Goku refused then Vegeta continues killing.
Vegeta not caring about Buu resurrection and then knocking Goku out to fight Buu alone.
Vegeta being difficult to fuse with Goku, until Vegeta hears Buu has absorbed his family.
Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
Vegeta let the earth get destroyed rather than fuse with Goku.

Yet somehow in DBS he became the 2nd main character and gets all the best training.

As someone who can't utterly stand Vegeta Pre-Super, I've thought about this quite a bit. Especially when Vegeta defenders show up with Whataboutism from other members of the cast more negative initial portrayals, and whenever someone shows up with an OC in their own stories who are just as despicable if not more so, Vegeta is their first poster child to why their OC should be allied with the heroes.

At least initially, when the odds were stacked against the Dragon Team on Namek, Vegeta is the Devil You Know, and also The Enemy of my Enemy. Then at the end of arc there was no one strong enough to boot Vegeta off world. Then the Android Arc happens, and once again everyone's back would have been to the wall without Vegeta. Then Bulma betrays the friends lost 2 arcs ago, if not the world and had a baby with Vegeta, so maybe she saw something there that no one else did, so maybe Vegeta isn't all bad. (he still is.)

He fucks up royally against Cell. And Cell Games or not, Goku probably should have made it clear to Vegeta he's not welcome on Earth anymore, with words or with violence. But fuck that, Goku is gonna Goku, and once again no one at this point is strong enough to boot Vegeta off world, and odds are stacked, enemy of my enemy, wash rinse repeat. Post Cell Saga, well Gohan isn't going to push Vegeta off planet, and no one else is strong enough, soo maybe it'll be okay. (it wasn't.)

Majin Vegeta should have been the end of Vegeta being considered an ally for anything, let alone 'Good.' You don't finally get to say "I'm fighting for someone other myself' and now you're an ally, now you can be trusted...But as always, wash rinse and repeat everything I said before. That's why Vegeta is literally given chance after chance. They need his strength, Bulma and Trunks humanized him, and there is no one save Goku strong enough to make him leave.

[MrGohanks]

I think we found someone who rivals Kunzait in regards to writing extremely long and verbose replies (although there isn't NEARLY as much substance).

Are you talking about me or dva-raza?

[jjgp1112]

I think we found someone who rivals Kunzait in regards to writing extremely long and verbose replies (although there isn't NEARLY as much substance).

Are you talking about me or dva-raza?

Definitely the latter, your posts weren't even long.

But we don't really need these digs at people's posting "quality"

[MrGohanks]

Lets think about it for a moment, Vegeta in DBZ has done so many things wrong yet he was given was many chance. Here are the examples:

Saiyan Saga
Killing Goku friends and wanting to kill everyone on earth.
Attempting to blow up the earth.

Namek Saga
Steal Namek Dragon Ball.
Kill Namekians.
Planning to kill the good guys.

Android and Cell Saga
Killing the truck driver, even if it is accidental.
Letting Cell escape to get his perfect form.
Attacking anyone that wanted to kill Cell.

Buu Saga
Getting possessed on purpose.
Killing innocent people, just to force Goku to fight him. If Goku refused then Vegeta continues killing.
Vegeta not caring about Buu resurrection and then knocking Goku out to fight Buu alone.
Vegeta being difficult to fuse with Goku, until Vegeta hears Buu has absorbed his family.
Vegeta destroying the Potara and refused to do the fusion dance.
Vegeta let the earth get destroyed rather than fuse with Goku.

Yet somehow in DBS he became the 2nd main character and gets all the best training.

As someone who can't utterly stand Vegeta Pre-Super, I've thought about this quite a bit. Especially when Vegeta defenders show up with Whataboutism from other members of the cast more negative initial portrayals, and whenever someone shows up with an OC in their own stories who are just as despicable if not more so, Vegeta is their first poster child to why their OC should be allied with the heroes.

At least initially, when the odds were stacked against the Dragon Team on Namek, Vegeta is the Devil You Know, and also The Enemy of my Enemy. Then at the end of arc there was no one strong enough to boot Vegeta off world. Then the Android Arc happens, and once again everyone's back would have been to the wall without Vegeta. Then Bulma betrays the friends lost 2 arcs ago, if not the world and had a baby with Vegeta, so maybe she saw something there that no one else did, so maybe Vegeta isn't all bad. (he still is.)

He fucks up royally against Cell. And Cell Games or not, Goku probably should have made it clear to Vegeta he's not welcome on Earth anymore, with words or with violence. But fuck that, Goku is gonna Goku, and once again no one at this point is strong enough to boot Vegeta off world, and odds are stacked, enemy of my enemy, wash rinse repeat. Post Cell Saga, well Gohan isn't going to push Vegeta off planet, and no one else is strong enough, soo maybe it'll be okay. (it wasn't.)

Majin Vegeta should have been the end of Vegeta being considered an ally for anything, let alone 'Good.' You don't finally get to say "I'm fighting for someone other myself' and now you're an ally, now you can be trusted...But as always, wash rinse and repeat everything I said before. That's why Vegeta is literally given chance after chance. They need his strength, Bulma and Trunks humanized him, and there is no one save Goku strong enough to make him leave.

Keep in mind that no one before the Kid Buu part of the Buu saga considered Vegeta an ally or friend, besides Goku (who himself hated Vegeta prior to his death speech on Namek), Bulma & Future Trunks. Bulma didn't need to see any "good" in Vegeta for her to hook up with him since she's been known to be attracted to villainous men in the past like Bandit Yamcha, General Blue & Zarbon.

Vegeta stayed around after Namek because they couldn't get rid of him, and if they somehow did the situation would have gotten worse in the long run.

[MyVisionity]

At least initially, when the odds were stacked against the Dragon Team on Namek, Vegeta is the Devil You Know, and also The Enemy of my Enemy. Then at the end of arc there was no one strong enough to boot Vegeta off world.

Who says Vegeta needed to be booted off world? As long as he's not causing any trouble, I don't see the problem.

Then Bulma betrays the friends lost 2 arcs ago, if not the world and had a baby with Vegeta, so maybe she saw something there that no one else did, so maybe Vegeta isn't all bad. (he still is.)

Having a baby with someone isn't a betrayal. And Bulma does indeed admit that she saw something in Vegeta that nobody else did. Not to mention that it's clear from watching the entire Android/Cell arcs that Vegeta wasn't all bad. Hell, that's clear by the end of the Freeza saga.

He fucks up royally against Cell. And Cell Games or not, Goku probably should have made it clear to Vegeta he's not welcome on Earth anymore, with words or with violence. But fuck that, Goku is gonna Goku, and once again no one at this point is strong enough to boot Vegeta off world, and odds are stacked, enemy of my enemy, wash rinse repeat. Post Cell Saga, well Gohan isn't going to push Vegeta off planet, and no one else is strong enough, soo maybe it'll be okay. (it wasn't.)

He's the father of Bulma's child and Goku's arch-rival. No one is going to think he should be kicked off of Earth. Letting Cell become perfect was a mistake, yes, but every one of them has made big mistakes in the past.

Majin Vegeta should have been the end of Vegeta being considered an ally for anything, let alone 'Good.' You don't finally get to say "I'm fighting for someone other myself' and now you're an ally, now you can be trusted...But as always, wash rinse and repeat everything I said before.

That's exactly what you get to do. Vegeta proved himself with the Majin Vegeta and Boo arcs. He finally showed everyone his true heart, and that he really was a trustworthy ally.

[MrGohanks]

Biased Vegeta haters like to complain and groan about him letting Cell turn Perfect, while at the same time not having anywhere near the same energy for the even dumber & far less character-justified decisions of Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan in that same saga.

Krillin not pushing the button on Android 18 despite knowing what's at stake was worse because she was a killer Android that he barely even knows and Krillin in canon had never been shown to be that desperate to get laid prior (even though there's other women out there), so it was pure plot convenience.

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Vegeta made it clear throughout the whole Android arc from the start that he wasn't interested in saving the world nor protecting anybody. He main motive in the Android arc was to become and prove that he's the strongest guy in the universe and to kill Goku in a battle after the Androids were taken care of. So Vegeta letting Cell reach his Perfect form is Vegeta being consistent with his characterization and motives, whereas what Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan did at the time was just inconsistent bad character writing for the sake of the plot.

[Koitsukai]

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Agreed about the others, but these two I do not agree with.

Didn't the androids say that if they didn't reveal where Goku was, they would have to get down to business? I don't think he had any other choice but to fight them. He could've told them about Cell and that he was hunting them and that he doesn't want to reveal their location by powering up, sure, but who can say that they would've believed him? or that it would've been enough? the androids were bored by then, I don't think he could've gotten out of that fight at all.

About Gohan, I think it's more about how Gohan deals with extreme power. He was also as obnoxious and conceited after the power unlock in the Buu arc, Gotenks got absorbed because he let him fight Buu again just because.
While revealed after the fact, Gohan ended up being quite the asshole, making awful choices, when he got the upper hand. This was the first time Gohan actually got a taste of real, lasting power, before this "prophecy" was fulfilled he was just getting brief, fleeting boosts of power.
IIRC, in DBS while Piccolo is helping him regain his power, he mentions his attitude being a problem when he has the edge.

[MyVisionity]

Super Saiyan transformations cause the individual to become cold-hearted and lose their sense of judgement. It makes sense that Gohan might become like he was at SSJ2 against Cell.

The point however is that all of those characters make serious mistakes, not just Vegeta. That doesn't mean they should be banished from the planet.

[super michael]

Biased Vegeta haters like to complain and groan about him letting Cell turn Perfect, while at the same time not having anywhere near the same energy for the even dumber & far less character-justified decisions of Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan in that same saga.

Krillin not pushing the button on Android 18 despite knowing what's at stake was worse because she was a killer Android that he barely even knows and Krillin in canon had never been shown to be that desperate to get laid prior (even though there's other women out there), so it was pure plot convenience.

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Vegeta made it clear throughout the whole Android arc from the start that he wasn't interested in saving the world nor protecting anybody. He main motive in the Android arc was to become and prove that he's the strongest guy in the universe and to kill Goku in a battle after the Androids were taken care of. So Vegeta letting Cell reach his Perfect form is Vegeta being consistent with his characterization and motives, whereas what Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan did at the time was just inconsistent bad character writing for the sake of the plot.

Are you such a Vegeta fanboy that you have to bring other characters up, when they are not so bad?

Krillin wanted to protect C18, regardless his reason. He didn't want to destroy her. He didn't help Cell absorb C18.

Gohan didn't help Cell at all, he wanted to make Cell suffer.

Piccolo didn't help Cell find the Android, he wanted to prevent the Androids from killing.


Vegeta he chose to help Cell get his perfect form and chose to listen to Cell over his son. To make it worse Vegeta attacked his own flesh and blood, so Trunks can't kill Cell.
In Vegeta mind Cell > Trunks when it comes who to side with.

The others didn't help the villain out or attach their own allies, but Vegeta he went the extra mile to do that.

[jjgp1112]

Gohan getting caught up in rage is a perfectly justified deviation from his character and Krillins whole deal was more than just him wanting to insert his hardware in the ol USB Drive ...though it's worth noting his angst about getting married was a pretty consistent running gag. It was still on his mind even while Frieza was impaling him! But more than that he saw thr goodness in the Androids in how they let everyone live and even told him to give them beans. And yes, were VERY friendly to him

[MrGohanks]

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Agreed about the others, but these two I do not agree with.

Didn't the androids say that if they didn't reveal where Goku was, they would have to get down to business? I don't think he had any other choice but to fight them. He could've told them about Cell and that he was hunting them and that he doesn't want to reveal their location by powering up, sure, but who can say that they would've believed him? or that it would've been enough? the androids were bored by then, I don't think he could've gotten out of that fight at all.

About Gohan, I think it's more about how Gohan deals with extreme power. He was also as obnoxious and conceited after the power unlock in the Buu arc, Gotenks got absorbed because he let him fight Buu again just because.
While revealed after the fact, Gohan ended up being quite the asshole, making awful choices, when he got the upper hand. This was the first time Gohan actually got a taste of real, lasting power, before this "prophecy" was fulfilled he was just getting brief, fleeting boosts of power.
IIRC, in DBS while Piccolo is helping him regain his power, he mentions his attitude being a problem when he has the edge.

Krillin and Tien was present with Piccolo when the Androids arrived. Either of them could have just used Solar Flare on the Androids and they all could have just flew away since the Androids can't sense Ki.

The Cell Games wasn't the first time Gohan got the edge on another character, yet he never acted overconfident or egotistical in those instances.

[MrGohanks]

Biased Vegeta haters like to complain and groan about him letting Cell turn Perfect, while at the same time not having anywhere near the same energy for the even dumber & far less character-justified decisions of Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan in that same saga.

Krillin not pushing the button on Android 18 despite knowing what's at stake was worse because she was a killer Android that he barely even knows and Krillin in canon had never been shown to be that desperate to get laid prior (even though there's other women out there), so it was pure plot convenience.

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Vegeta made it clear throughout the whole Android arc from the start that he wasn't interested in saving the world nor protecting anybody. He main motive in the Android arc was to become and prove that he's the strongest guy in the universe and to kill Goku in a battle after the Androids were taken care of. So Vegeta letting Cell reach his Perfect form is Vegeta being consistent with his characterization and motives, whereas what Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan did at the time was just inconsistent bad character writing for the sake of the plot.

Are you such a Vegeta fanboy that you have to bring other characters up, when they are not so bad?

Krillin wanted to protect C18, regardless his reason. He didn't want to destroy her. He didn't help Cell absorb C18.

Gohan didn't help Cell at all, he wanted to make Cell suffer.

Piccolo didn't help Cell find the Android, he wanted to prevent the Androids from killing.


Vegeta he chose to help Cell get his perfect form and chose to listen to Cell over his son. To make it worse Vegeta attacked his own flesh and blood, so Trunks can't kill Cell.
In Vegeta mind Cell > Trunks when it comes who to side with.

The others didn't help the villain out or attach their own allies, but Vegeta he went the extra mile to do that.

You are missing the point, and how does me telling straight facts make me a Vegeta fanboy?

Krillin wanting to help Android 18 at all is really stupid, because 18 is a killer Android that he barely even knows and her being alive means Cell has a chance to become Perfect. Literally any other Z Fighter would have just pushed the button if they were in Krillin's position. And there's plenty of other women out there besides 18 .

Gohan playing around and wanting to make Cell suffer instead of just killing him right away is stupid and out of character.

By choicing to fight the Androids at all, Piccolo gave away the Androids' location to Cell, so Cell coming anywhere near any of the Androids at all is Piccolo's fault.

The main goal of most of the Z Fighters was to stop the Androids and protect the Earth, Vegeta was the exception. What Krillin, Gohan and Piccolo did in that arc was either inconsistent with that goal or just plain stupid.

[MrGohanks]

Gohan getting caught up in rage is a perfectly justified deviation from his character and Krillins whole deal was more than just him wanting to insert his hardware in the ol USB Drive ...though it's worth noting his angst about getting married was a pretty consistent running gag. It was still on his mind even while Frieza was impaling him! But more than that he saw thr goodness in the Androids in how they let everyone live and even told him to give them beans. And yes, were VERY friendly to him

Yet whenever Gohan was enraged in the Saiyan and Namek arcs he never acted egotistical or overconfident. Also, Cell Games Gohan was more conscious and had more self-control in battle than he ever had previously (he wasn't impulsive nor emotional), so there's no excuse for how he handled Perfect Cell at all.

There's plenty of other women out there for Krillin besides 18 lol. There's no possible way to look at Krillin not pressing the button on 18 as anything other than plot convenience.

[Lukmendes]

Keep in mind that no one before the Kid Buu part of the Buu saga considered Vegeta an ally or friend, besides Goku (who himself hated Vegeta prior to his death speech on Namek), Bulma & Future Trunks. Bulma didn't need to see any "good" in Vegeta for her to hook up with him since she's been known to be attracted to villainous men in the past like Bandit Yamcha, General Blue & Zarbon.

Bulma was attracted to them more so because they were hot men, not for being evil.

Future Bulma also points out that there's good in Vegeta, though Trunks disagrees with that, it's only at the end of Cell saga that he learned that Vegeta isn't a completely evil.

Vegeta stayed around after Namek because they couldn't get rid of him, and if they somehow did the situation would have gotten worse in the long run.

The other characters in general didn't really seem to mind Vegeta being around, Bulma invited him to live in her house, Yamcha was even having luch with him before they sensed that Freeza was coming, and before all of that, Gohan seemed fine with him and even tried to shake his hand when Vegeta made suggestions about how to resurrect Goku, only Tien and Krillin seemed to have a problem with him, Krillin was wary while Tien was pissed.

Agreed about the others, but these two I do not agree with.

Didn't the androids say that if they didn't reveal where Goku was, they would have to get down to business? I don't think he had any other choice but to fight them.

Yep, they gave Piccolo no choice this time around:



(Chapter 366)

He could've told them about Cell and that he was hunting them and that he doesn't want to reveal their location by powering up, sure, but who can say that they would've believed him? or that it would've been enough? the androids were bored by then, I don't think he could've gotten out of that fight at all.

Piccolo is surprised that 17 doesn't know about Cell, so before they fought, he could've mentioned Cell to try to avoid having to fight, it would've fallen in deaf ears, but at least Kami's wisdom would be getting used.

About Gohan, I think it's more about how Gohan deals with extreme power. He was also as obnoxious and conceited after the power unlock in the Buu arc, Gotenks got absorbed because he let him fight Buu again just because.
While revealed after the fact, Gohan ended up being quite the asshole, making awful choices, when he got the upper hand. This was the first time Gohan actually got a taste of real, lasting power, before this "prophecy" was fulfilled he was just getting brief, fleeting boosts of power.
IIRC, in DBS while Piccolo is helping him regain his power, he mentions his attitude being a problem when he has the edge.

Piccolo does point that out, yes, I think he says so right before Gohan goes re-unlocks his potential.

To be fair to him in Buu saga though, while he did drag the fight against Boo, it was much shorter, just a few punches and kicks, Super Buu very quickly decided to disappear to be able to use Gotenks, if it were Goku or Vegeta there, I doubt the situation would be that different, though, they wouldn't let Gotenks fight Buu again, at least lol.

Gohan getting caught up in rage is a perfectly justified deviation from his character and Krillins whole deal was more than just him wanting to insert his hardware in the ol USB Drive ...though it's worth noting his angst about getting married was a pretty consistent running gag. It was still on his mind even while Frieza was impaling him! But more than that he saw thr goodness in the Androids in how they let everyone live and even told him to give them beans. And yes, were VERY friendly to him

While Krillin did want a girlfriend, it's just odd how much 18 made him think with his other head, when he destroys the remote, 18 even points out that was a terrible idea, it's just weird his character was written like that when he didn't seem to be so desperate before... Maybe it's the first time he was kissed, still weird anyways lol.

Krillin and Tien was present with Piccolo when the Androids arrived. Either of them could have just used Solar Flare on the Androids and they all could have just flew away since the Androids can't sense Ki.

I'm not sure Solar Flare would work on 16, and 16 himself has a sensor too, since he points out Piccolo's power is around 17's and 18's, and later points out his power is around Cell's, though the characters wouldn't know about both details.

The Cell Games wasn't the first time Gohan got the edge on another character, yet he never acted overconfident or egotistical in those instances.

Before that he only ever surpassed Raditz in power, which he didn't even notice, against Nappa and Third Form Freeza he only briefly pushed them back, and quickly realized he's screwed when they weren't really hurt, Cell is the first time he truly surpassed someone in power for longer than 10 seconds, and he can even have the excuse of "Muh Super Saiyan rage", he was even slightly worse than Goku when he got Super Saiyan.

[jjgp1112]

Gohan getting caught up in rage is a perfectly justified deviation from his character and Krillins whole deal was more than just him wanting to insert his hardware in the ol USB Drive ...though it's worth noting his angst about getting married was a pretty consistent running gag. It was still on his mind even while Frieza was impaling him! But more than that he saw thr goodness in the Androids in how they let everyone live and even told him to give them beans. And yes, were VERY friendly to him

Yet whenever Gohan was enraged in the Saiyan and Namek arcs he never acted egotistical or overconfident. Also, Cell Games Gohan was more conscious and had more self-control in battle than he ever had previously (he wasn't impulsive nor emotional), so there's no excuse for how he handled Perfect Cell at all.

There's plenty of other women out there for Krillin besides 18 lol. There's no possible way to look at Krillin not pressing the button on 18 as anything other than plot convenience.

Gohan's rage against Raditz, Nappa, and Frieza were brief outbursts and you could say he definitely had the same ill intent that he had against Cell. Cell was the first time he was actually still in control of his power for long-term AND had a clear upper-hand...and as has been repeatedly pointed out, the SSJ transformation was explicitly said to make you more vicious.

And "there's plenty of other women out there" is irrelevant. Clearly, 18 set off his attraction. You might as well say to that to every guy attracted to a specific woman ever. You're looking at it purely from an outside, logical perspective and not stepping in the person's shoes. Like no shit there's other fish but Krillin's worried about this one and it's perfectly normal to not see the forest for the trees when you're attracted to someone.

[MasenkoHA]

While Krillin did want a girlfriend, it's just odd how much 18 made him think with his other head, when he destroys the remote, 18 even points out that was a terrible idea, it's just weird his character was written like that when he didn't seem to be so desperate before... Maybe it's the first time he was kissed, still weird

He was thinking of how he would never get married while he was DYING. And if we count anime only material he was willing to settle down with the flaky gold digger whom he probably wasn't dating for very long.

A pretty woman showing him the slightest bit of affection getting him sprung is perfectly in character for Krillin.

[Koitsukai]

The Cell Games wasn't the first time Gohan got the edge on another character, yet he never acted overconfident or egotistical in those instances.

But it was the first time he actually got a lasting power. Previously, he just got temporary boosts out of anger (Raditz, Nappa, 2nd form Freeza) and returned back to normal afterwards. It's like he was allowed to drive a car for a few blocks, compared to having his own car. THE car.

He just can't handle real power, it goes up to his head. It happened in the Buu arc, too. It's his character trait and Piccolo points it out in DBS.

[super michael]

Biased Vegeta haters like to complain and groan about him letting Cell turn Perfect, while at the same time not having anywhere near the same energy for the even dumber & far less character-justified decisions of Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan in that same saga.

Krillin not pushing the button on Android 18 despite knowing what's at stake was worse because she was a killer Android that he barely even knows and Krillin in canon had never been shown to be that desperate to get laid prior (even though there's other women out there), so it was pure plot convenience.

Piccolo choosing to fight Android 17 at all intstead of just retreating was worse and dumber than anything Vegeta in the Android arc, because Piccolo knew that Imperfect Cell was hunting for the Androids and that fighting them would reveal their location to Cell. Also, Piccolo should have realized from the start that he never stood a chance against Android 17 (who he knows has infinite stamina because Trunks told him) because Piccolo earlier was struggling in his fight with Imperfect Cell, who admitted to being weaker than Android 17 at the time. If Goku was in Piccolo's situation he would have chosen not to fight and instead IT has way into Kami's Lookout, train in the chamber alittle then come back to fight them with a guaranteed victory.

Gohan is also to blame for not just killing Perfect Cell immediately after gaining SSJ2, despite Goku telling him to do just that, leading to Goku’s sacrifice later. Gohan had never been shown to be particularly sadistic or egotistical in battle before the Cell Games, so Gohan at the time was just out of character for the sake of the plot. And there's no evidence in the series that SSJ2 changes your personality, so that excuse doesn't work either.

Vegeta made it clear throughout the whole Android arc from the start that he wasn't interested in saving the world nor protecting anybody. He main motive in the Android arc was to become and prove that he's the strongest guy in the universe and to kill Goku in a battle after the Androids were taken care of. So Vegeta letting Cell reach his Perfect form is Vegeta being consistent with his characterization and motives, whereas what Krillin, Piccolo & Gohan did at the time was just inconsistent bad character writing for the sake of the plot.

Are you such a Vegeta fanboy that you have to bring other characters up, when they are not so bad?

Krillin wanted to protect C18, regardless his reason. He didn't want to destroy her. He didn't help Cell absorb C18.

Gohan didn't help Cell at all, he wanted to make Cell suffer.

Piccolo didn't help Cell find the Android, he wanted to prevent the Androids from killing.


Vegeta he chose to help Cell get his perfect form and chose to listen to Cell over his son. To make it worse Vegeta attacked his own flesh and blood, so Trunks can't kill Cell.
In Vegeta mind Cell > Trunks when it comes who to side with.

The others didn't help the villain out or attach their own allies, but Vegeta he went the extra mile to do that.

You are missing the point, and how does me telling straight facts make me a Vegeta fanboy?

Krillin wanting to help Android 18 at all is really stupid, because 18 is a killer Android that he barely even knows and her being alive means Cell has a chance to become Perfect. Literally any other Z Fighter would have just pushed the button if they were in Krillin's position. And there's plenty of other women out there besides 18 .

Gohan playing around and wanting to make Cell suffer instead of just killing him right away is stupid and out of character.

By choicing to fight the Androids at all, Piccolo gave away the Androids' location to Cell, so Cell coming anywhere near any of the Androids at all is Piccolo's fault.

The main goal of most of the Z Fighters was to stop the Androids and protect the Earth, Vegeta was the exception. What Krillin, Gohan and Piccolo did in that arc was either inconsistent with that goal or just plain stupid.

Krillin wanted to give C18 a chance to live, there is nothing wrong with that. Krillin saw that C18 was scared. That isn't evil. However Krillin didn't help Cell get his perfect form.

Gohan wanting to get revenge by making Cell suffer is wrong. However Gohan didn't help Cell.


Vegeta oh Vegeta he helps Cell by letting him go and Vegeta even goes as far as become Cell body guard, so if anyone attack him, Vegeta attacks them back.
Trunks is Vegeta son, yet he cared more about Cell words than his son words.
So yes Vegeta helped Cell get his perfect form and protected Cell until he got his perfect form.

[Lukmendes]

He was thinking of how he would never get married while he was DYING. And if we count anime only material he was willing to settle down with the flaky gold digger whom he probably wasn't dating for very long.

A pretty woman showing him the slightest bit of affection getting him sprung is perfectly in character for Krillin.

There's a huge difference between wanting to get married, and randomly falling in love with some chick who just randomly kissed him on the cheek and not much else, and unlike Bulma he was never shown to be that desperate for random hot women he met.

[MrGohanks]

Are you such a Vegeta fanboy that you have to bring other characters up, when they are not so bad?

Krillin wanted to protect C18, regardless his reason. He didn't want to destroy her. He didn't help Cell absorb C18.

Gohan didn't help Cell at all, he wanted to make Cell suffer.

Piccolo didn't help Cell find the Android, he wanted to prevent the Androids from killing.


Vegeta he chose to help Cell get his perfect form and chose to listen to Cell over his son. To make it worse Vegeta attacked his own flesh and blood, so Trunks can't kill Cell.
In Vegeta mind Cell > Trunks when it comes who to side with.

The others didn't help the villain out or attach their own allies, but Vegeta he went the extra mile to do that.

You are missing the point, and how does me telling straight facts make me a Vegeta fanboy?

Krillin wanting to help Android 18 at all is really stupid, because 18 is a killer Android that he barely even knows and her being alive means Cell has a chance to become Perfect. Literally any other Z Fighter would have just pushed the button if they were in Krillin's position. And there's plenty of other women out there besides 18 .

Gohan playing around and wanting to make Cell suffer instead of just killing him right away is stupid and out of character.

By choicing to fight the Androids at all, Piccolo gave away the Androids' location to Cell, so Cell coming anywhere near any of the Androids at all is Piccolo's fault.

The main goal of most of the Z Fighters was to stop the Androids and protect the Earth, Vegeta was the exception. What Krillin, Gohan and Piccolo did in that arc was either inconsistent with that goal or just plain stupid.

Krillin wanted to give C18 a chance to live, there is nothing wrong with that. Krillin saw that C18 was scared. That isn't evil. However Krillin didn't help Cell get his perfect form.

Gohan wanting to get revenge by making Cell suffer is wrong. However Gohan didn't help Cell.


Vegeta oh Vegeta he helps Cell by letting him go and Vegeta even goes as far as become Cell body guard, so if anyone attack him, Vegeta attacks them back.
Trunks is Vegeta son, yet he cared more about Cell words than his son words.
So yes Vegeta helped Cell get his perfect form and protected Cell until he got his perfect form.

Krillin Did help Cell by choosing to destroy the remote device. By letting 18 live, Krillin helped Cell become Perfect.

Gohan also basically helped Cell by not just killing him right away, giving Cell enough time to think of an exit strategy