Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

[MrGohanks]

And Dsypo was shown to be way slower than Omen Goku as well.

Wasn't it the opposite? I think Goku's fight with either Jiren or Kefla had the godpad managing to capture his movements, while Dyspo in lightspeed mode didn't show anything at all.

When Goku used UI Omen for the first time, Base Toppo and Dsypo tried attacking him yet they were too slow and couldn't land a single hit on Goku.

[Saiyan007]

Goku's IT hasn't nothing to do with distance. He can get to Beerus planet to Earth if a ki is high enough.

Gas said it was easier to fly then try to concentrate to IT back.

That doesn't change the fact that Gas can physically fly that distance in such a short time at all instead of teleporting, which would be impossible if he wasn't trillions of times FTL

What is the distance between Cereal and where Goku left Gas, because trillions x FTL sounds like a number pulled out of nowhere.

Goku can teleport galaxies away with his Instant transmission and Gas can fly that distance in 20 minutes trillions is probably low balling his speed

[mmg86]

That doesn't change the fact that Gas can physically fly that distance in such a short time at all instead of teleporting, which would be impossible if he wasn't trillions of times FTL

What is the distance between Cereal and where Goku left Gas, because trillions x FTL sounds like a number pulled out of nowhere.

Goku can teleport galaxies away with his Instant transmission and Gas can fly that distance in 20 minutes trillions is probably low balling his speed

Miguelnuva1's point is that Goku's teleportation technique is not limited to a certain range, but instead to his ability to sense Ki at the place he wants to go. He wouldn't be able to use it to get to a place even a couple kilometers away if there's absolutely no Ki at the destination, while he would be able to get from one end of the universe to the other with a single teleport if there is a Ki signature at the destination powerful enough that he can feel it from that distance.

Taking that into account, making claims such as "it's x amount of times farther than another place, because it took x more teleports!" is baseless. Now, i'm very out of the loop with the current events of DB Super, so... can you tell me if there was any mention of actual, you know, distance, during that seven teleports chain? For example, was it said that every teleport took him to another galaxy, or to another solar system? I assume at the very least each one took him to a different planet, right?

[Speedster]

- Jaco confirmed that Dragonball’s Earth is situated in the Milky Way.
- Planet Cereal is located in the Milky Way.
- The various locations Goku teleported to during this battle were all located in the Milky Way – evident from the presence of the Galactic Patrol, Galactic King and Galactic Prison. The other location was at Monaka’s place which shouldn’t be out of the galaxy as Goku was able to sense him and Monaka is weak. And the Planet Whis was hanging around was also in the Milky Way. And when he showed which way Gas should travel to, you could only see planets and stars, not galaxies. If planet Cereal was galaxies away Toyotaro would have drawn a few galaxies to show it.

It follows that the maximum distance Gas would have to travel is the diameter of Milky Way which is 105700 light years. To travel this distance in 20 minutes you need to travel at a speed of 2,78 trillion times the speed of light. Even if we lowball the distance to only 1/8th of Milky’s way diameter we are still talking around 350 billion times the speed of light. If we lowball even more to just 1% of the galaxy's diameter we are still talking about a speed of 27.8 billion times the speed of light. Which goes to show the HUGE difference between Z’s strongest/fastest characters that could barely travel/fly at the speed of light and Super at this stage.

[mmg86]

I see. Thanks for the info, speedster! Well, barring the (fairly low) chance of more concrete distances being given at some later point, i'd say the safest estimate would be something in the middle. That it wasn't "from one end of the Milky Way to the other", but that it wasn't "from one solar system to the very next", either.

[Tai Lung]

I think it's obvious... but teleport is not speed ....

[mmg86]

I think it's obvious... but teleport is not speed ....

I don't think anyone is saying that teleporting IS speed, they are talking about Gas flying through space to get to Goku after he teleported away.

By the way, i just glanced through the chapter and find it hilarious how Gas doesn't get out of the way of whatever Monaka was dumping. Unless we assume that sludge is some weird substance that falls faster than light instead of normally, it makes Gas look quite slow, possibly not even superhuman. That coupled with him being able to fly however many AU he's flying in twenty minutes in the very same chapter is a level of speed inconsistency i've only seen previously in some Flash scans.

[fleahop]

If you suddenly gained the ability to propel yourself at unreal speeds, does that make you capable of reacting at those speeds?

[mmg86]

Assuming that was directed at me: no, it doesn't. The ability to propel yourself and how fast you can think (or how slow the world looks to you) don't always come together. But in this case it looks like he was dashing towards Goku when the sludge was dumped on him. Making it seem like he must have been DASHING...SLOOOOOWLY. It's incredibly silly.

[Misu]

It's very funny that you guys are trying to apply real world physics on a franchise which literally started off as a over the top comedy manga

[Goku9001]

And Dsypo was shown to be way slower than Omen Goku as well.

Wasn't it the opposite? I think Goku's fight with either Jiren or Kefla had the godpad managing to capture his movements, while Dyspo in lightspeed mode didn't show anything at all.

Golden Frieza also didn't register on the god pad as well but Golden Frieza is nowhere near as fast as UI Omen Goku and Jiren. Furthermore, Gohan managed to react to Lightning Speed Dyspo and restrained him before he could land an attack on Gohan/Frieza.

Look at how the anime depicts their fights. UI Omen Goku and Jiren are bouncing back-and-forth, initiating tens of punches within seconds while bouncing around all over the tournament. The number of shockwaves they're emitting is literally engulfing the entire field in explosions. Their fight was depicted at a much higher level in terms of speed than anything preceding it.

[TheComicCurator]

Sorry for the thread revival, I read all 7 pages here Nick and you were using your opinion vs his facts and source material. Nobody but Whis and maybe Beerus are actually light speed in the main cast. Dypsos attack name in Japanese is just super mega speed, not light speed. Everything this other person said was valid and your response was to deny the source material and inject your own opinion. Opinions are fine, but not in the case where the discussion is about fact finding and when the other side gives you all the facts.

If you watch the first time Goku demonstrated Instant Transmission to the crew, Yamcha states its shocking anyone can move to Roshi's Island in the span of 13 seconds and back. For light speed, this is a trip they can all make in 91 times in 13 seconds at light speed. Goku is not Superman, and was never meant to be and you falsely claiming you debunked this, or someone else did, simply isnt a reality.

"And according to the Z anime and Daizenshuu, the spaceship used to reach Namek is slower than SSJ Goku and Final Form Freeza, make of that what you will."

There is nothing in the anime or the Daizenshuu that says Goku is faster than this ship. Goku had to go for a space walk and was thwarted by super glue. And during the space walk, the ship had to slow down to a point that asteroids can impact the hull with no shield and not even leave a scratch. I have the Daizenshuus in full, and there isnt a single statement anywhere that says anything close to what you said.

Your comments about Piccolo indicate that Piccolo cannot circle the earth even once in the span of 29 minutes. Gotenks flying at max speed to test himself took 29 minutes to circle the earth about 9 times in the anime, and we can see the Earth rotating a lot between each lap. According to you, Gotenks flys around the earth 9 times in 1 minute, then lays down for 29 minutes. Piccolo is huffing and puffing when he lands, and according to you, Piccolo could not lap the earth even once in 29 minutes?

Piccolo was right behind Gotenks when he took off. So Gotenks lapped 9 times in 29 minutes and rested for 1 while Piccolo arrived, clearly gassed out and breathing heavy, for flying around the earth so many times in 29 minutes. Your argument doesnt follow any actual coherent logic and the opposite side of the discussion against you does.

You are implying, without you realizing, that Piccolo giving chase would for whatever reason lap the earth 28.5 times over the course of 29 minutes? No. Piccolo was lapped by Gotenks 9 times before he landed and the entire duration took 29 minutes of flight.

Gotenks then goes to rest, and Piccolo heavily exhausted, arrives and there is about 60 seconds left on the fusion.

Gotenks at SSJ1 testing his max speed made 9 laps in 29 minutes, thats 463,700 mph. And Gotenks speed is and power level is roughly double all of gokus forms.

You made some headcanon revisionism up about it taking 2-4 seconds, I went back to re-read and rewatch, that isnt the case.

Roshis blast to the moon was a gag and not meant to be taken as a speed feat.

The Kakarot game guide explains Piccolos blast was an illusion that didnt happen.

You are ignoring that the actual speed feats of Roshi in the 100 meter dash were shown, and also Goku with a power level of 400 running 1 million KM in 6 months with 25% help from a zambonie. And power level 8000 goku needing 27 hours to run 1 million KM.

Basically, your opponent won that argument with you with straight facts.

Literally every argument here is something you already said and they all already got debunked.

- Goku didnt' even try to reach his spaceship, he merely went to Freeza's because it was right in front of him. And you still haven't posted any scans from the manga to prove your failed point.

- No one ever said nor implied that Goku couldn't reach that point with teleportation. That's just your headcanon.

- Trunks wasn't moving at top speed, this was pointed out in the show itself, a fact you keep ignoring.

- This is pure false lol, because 1 Piccolo was flying after him at top speed (didn't even take off his armor), 2 Piccolo wasn't actually fatigued afterwards, you just made that up, 3 we're never given a timeframe for how long it took for Piccolo to find Gotenks, a fact you keep ignoring.

- "In another hand, subtext suggests that objects known to travel faster than light, like spaceships, are slower than Jiren in the manga, so anyone that can be compared with him is probably faster than light as well."

And according to the Z anime and Daizenshuu, the spaceship used to reach Namek is slower than SSJ Goku and Final Form Freeza, make of that what you will.

Also, Piccolo & Roshi blowing up the moon in a few seconds is officially acknowledged in the Daizenshuu, interviews with Toriyama and a bunch of other official sources so they can't be dismissed as an outliers regardless of inconsistency.



The Camera couldn't track Goku & Cell at all, your point?

Not keeping up doesn't mean I can't track you. I can track you for 50 years and never find you.

Lightspeed I would have no idea you were even around.

This is a ridiculous argument, because you can easily track the direction of actual light from an ordinary source

That's pure headcanon lol. The actual manga and anime scene literally shows that it all happened in 2-4 seconds of real time while Great Ape Gohan was right next to him. Its like you're desperate to downplay, nothing was sped up.

So Piccolo's ki blast and Roshi's Kamehameha are both faster than energy attacks used later in the series?

They're actually slower and than attacks from later on, because more Ki = more everything in stats. Simple DB logic

Normal people noticed the energy attacks Goten and Trunks were using at the tournament.

[DBZ Macky]

Is it really that hard to believe that Dragon Ball characters don't have impressive travel speed and lifting strength?

They can not have that and still be strong in terms of reaction speed and attack potency.