Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Koitsukai]

Black doesn't power up, that's not what it was. He was just using his aura to remove the debris around him. We can see how his power-up aura looks like when Vegeta grabs one of his punches and he tries to force the punch into Vegeta, and it is not what he does after Trunks hits him.

You don't get from SS2 level to SSB just because daddy told you DON'T LOSE, not even Gohan got such an easy power boost. DBS can be dumb, but not that dumb. There isn't a SSB bargain sale like so many people believe.

Besides, Trunks is already SSB level with his ragey thing, why force everything to make him SSB from the start??

Goku Black pushes back Goku even harder after Goku Black was kicked away. He blatantly powered up.

I'm not seeing the issue here. Even the manga displayed that powerscaling in the arc. I would say Trunks' massive growth in power came from heightened emotions and resolve spurred by Vegeta, which we've seen powered up the Saiyans drastically throughout the arc countless times. That, also motivated him to train much harder which enabled him to fight back Future Zamasu and Goku Black. SSJB Goku never urges Trunks to stay back unlike Kaioshin and Gowasu where Goku explicitly tells them to retreat. It's simply out-of-character for Goku to allow Trunks to remain in the battle if he knew he was much weaker than them.

He doesn't, you can just compare how both auras look, the one there and the one when he actually is trying to summon more power. The difference is quite obvious. In one he is just blowing up rocks with a shy little aura.

And people jumping 3 forms based on somebody telling them 'don't lose again' never happened in the manga or in the anime for that matter. The issue is nobody becomes blue level without nobody acknowledging it, but most importantly without earning it. And Trunks earns his power boost later on, after Black calls him out on his time travels and tells him he is the reason for their little crusade. That's when his emotions and resolve are brought up into the scene, not after a brief sparring session.

And Goku literally warns Trunks what he's up against, he is also outnumbered, so why would he fight them on his own?

[Hugo Boss]

Not exactly interested in taking any side on this discussion, but Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of weaker fighter getting a clean hit on a stronger fighter or animators designing unnecessarily-even-squabbles until the fight progress to a point where we know exactly how strong each character is. It’s to none surprise that we still see things like Rage Broly not completely destroying Base Goku in a little exchange of blows, until he starts steamrolling SSGod Goku.

[Goku9001]

Not exactly interested in taking any side on this discussion, but Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of weaker fighter getting a clean hit on a stronger fighter or animators designing unnecessarily-even-squabbles until the fight progress to a point where we know exactly how strong each character is. It’s to none surprise that we still see things like Rage Broly not completely destroying Base Goku in a little exchange of blows, until he starts steamrolling SSGod Goku.

The novelization actually clarifies this by stating that Rage Broly was holding back on Goku.

You're correct in that Super has it's fair share of uneven squabbles, but at no point is Trunks made out to be inferior unlike the case with Jiren vs. SSJB Goku for example, which does. After a certain point, you would be disregarding all pieces of evidence just because Super has been a bit inconsistent.

[Hugo Boss]

Not exactly interested in taking any side on this discussion, but Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of weaker fighter getting a clean hit on a stronger fighter or animators designing unnecessarily-even-squabbles until the fight progress to a point where we know exactly how strong each character is. It’s to none surprise that we still see things like Rage Broly not completely destroying Base Goku in a little exchange of blows, until he starts steamrolling SSGod Goku.

The novelization actually clarifies this by stating that Rage Broly was holding back on Goku.

You're correct in that Super has it's fair share of uneven squabbles, but at no point is Trunks made out to be inferior unlike the case with Jiren vs. SSJB Goku for example, which does. After a certain point, you would be disregarding all pieces of evidence just because Super has been a bit inconsistent.

Still, it’s just a novelization, which makes me question how valid such a point is, when logically it doesn’t make sense for Broly to hold back in a mental state he can’t control his actions.

The same way it doesn’t make sense to compare Trunks or Zamasu to Goku Black or Goku when none throws a direct nod to acknowledge that.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I really don’t see how that line can’t be taken as anything other than a power statement when they were fighting and Goku is remembering their last fight. His immortality hadn’t been revealed yet and it doesn’t improve his durability.

If it were a power statement then Goku would have easily said that Future Zamasu was stronger but he never did.

At this point in the story we still don't know this Zamasu is the one from the future world so Goku's line is most likely foreshadowing that.

Vegeta has said “this isn’t the same Kakarot as before” after both of Goku’s power ups on Namek. That’s a way of saying someone is stronger than before.

Exactly. As far as we knew this should be the same Zamasu Goku met earlier, but Goku is confused that he’s stronger than before. We can’t take the line literally because Goku didn’t realize that was Future Zamasu until later.

Still, it’s just a novelization, which makes me question how valid such a point is, when logically it doesn’t make sense for Broly to hold back in a mental state he can’t control his actions.

Ikari Broly was slightly savage, but he didn’t look like he really was out of his mind until he went SSJ. IIRC the novelization talks about how Broly was actually enjoying his fight with Goku. You know, Saiyan instinct to drag good fights and all that talk.

You're correct in that Super has it's fair share of uneven squabbles, but at no point is Trunks made out to be inferior unlike the case with Jiren vs. SSJB Goku for example, which does. After a certain point, you would be disregarding all pieces of evidence just because Super has been a bit inconsistent.

Trunks had been pointed out to be fodder to Goku Black before, and aside from one blow that barely even scathed Black I don’t think he ever even lays a finger on him pre SSJR.

[Hugo Boss]

Still, it’s just a novelization, which makes me question how valid such a point is, when logically it doesn’t make sense for Broly to hold back in a mental state he can’t control his actions.

Ikari Broly was slightly savage, but he didn’t look like he really was out of his mind until he went SSJ. IIRC the novelization talks about how Broly was actually enjoying his fight with Goku. You know, Saiyan instinct to drag good fights and all that talk.

I never read the novelization, but if it’s implying Broly was enjoying the fight, it’s in contradiction with how the movie conveys his mental state. Broly never implied any of that. It’s a embellishment from the novel, if anything else.

[Goku9001]

Not exactly interested in taking any side on this discussion, but Dragon Ball has a lot of examples of weaker fighter getting a clean hit on a stronger fighter or animators designing unnecessarily-even-squabbles until the fight progress to a point where we know exactly how strong each character is. It’s to none surprise that we still see things like Rage Broly not completely destroying Base Goku in a little exchange of blows, until he starts steamrolling SSGod Goku.

The novelization actually clarifies this by stating that Rage Broly was holding back on Goku.

You're correct in that Super has it's fair share of uneven squabbles, but at no point is Trunks made out to be inferior unlike the case with Jiren vs. SSJB Goku for example, which does. After a certain point, you would be disregarding all pieces of evidence just because Super has been a bit inconsistent.

Still, it’s just a novelization, which makes me question how valid such a point is, when logically it doesn’t make sense for Broly to hold back in a mental state he can’t control his actions.

The same way it doesn’t make sense to compare Trunks or Zamasu to Goku Black or Goku when none throws a direct nod to acknowledge that.

It was illustrated by Akira Toriyama meaning that he was directly involved within it. The novelization doesn't contradict what we are shown as Broly can clearly rationalize what people are saying or doing such as mimicking Goku's stance or actually acknowledging Goku's words when he claimed that Broly wasn't such a bad guy. He was enraged during his entire bout with Vegeta yet was smirking when he battled Goku.

There doesn't need to be a direct nod when the fight makes it very clear. The only thing we know for certain is that Future Zamasu is inferior to SSJR Goku Black as that was explicitly stated but there's nothing rendering SSJ2 Trunks from being competitive with SSJB Goku outside of outdated information.

[Goku9001]

Black doesn't power up, that's not what it was. He was just using his aura to remove the debris around him. We can see how his power-up aura looks like when Vegeta grabs one of his punches and he tries to force the punch into Vegeta, and it is not what he does after Trunks hits him.

You don't get from SS2 level to SSB just because daddy told you DON'T LOSE, not even Gohan got such an easy power boost. DBS can be dumb, but not that dumb. There isn't a SSB bargain sale like so many people believe.

Besides, Trunks is already SSB level with his ragey thing, why force everything to make him SSB from the start??

Goku Black pushes back Goku even harder after Goku Black was kicked away. He blatantly powered up.

I'm not seeing the issue here. Even the manga displayed that powerscaling in the arc. I would say Trunks' massive growth in power came from heightened emotions and resolve spurred by Vegeta, which we've seen powered up the Saiyans drastically throughout the arc countless times. That, also motivated him to train much harder which enabled him to fight back Future Zamasu and Goku Black. SSJB Goku never urges Trunks to stay back unlike Kaioshin and Gowasu where Goku explicitly tells them to retreat. It's simply out-of-character for Goku to allow Trunks to remain in the battle if he knew he was much weaker than them.

He doesn't, you can just compare how both auras look, the one there and the one when he actually is trying to summon more power. The difference is quite obvious. In one he is just blowing up rocks with a shy little aura.

And people jumping 3 forms based on somebody telling them 'don't lose again' never happened in the manga or in the anime for that matter. The issue is nobody becomes blue level without nobody acknowledging it, but most importantly without earning it. And Trunks earns his power boost later on, after Black calls him out on his time travels and tells him he is the reason for their little crusade. That's when his emotions and resolve are brought up into the scene, not after a brief sparring session.

And Goku literally warns Trunks what he's up against, he is also outnumbered, so why would he fight them on his own?

And you can just compare Goku Blacks' performance before and after flaring his aura. He required help from Future Zamasu towards the middle of the fight and was parried by SSJ2 Trunks. Afterwards, he blatantly overpowered SSJB Goku and Trunks was unable to do anything about it.

I'm referring to Goku who, by only training using the Mafuba, managed to rival SSJB Vegeta. Keep in mind that SSJB Vegeta was inferior to SSJ Goku Black yet surpasses SSJR Goku Black after training in the RoSaT. This power increase is never properly accounted for which is a common complaint among most people who've read the manga. This is undeniable.

Because he was doing so before. If Trunks was a nuisance, he would have urged him to fall back as he has always done with Z Senshi and as he's done with Kaioshin and Gowasu.

[Hugo Boss]

The novelization actually clarifies this by stating that Rage Broly was holding back on Goku.

You're correct in that Super has it's fair share of uneven squabbles, but at no point is Trunks made out to be inferior unlike the case with Jiren vs. SSJB Goku for example, which does. After a certain point, you would be disregarding all pieces of evidence just because Super has been a bit inconsistent.

Still, it’s just a novelization, which makes me question how valid such a point is, when logically it doesn’t make sense for Broly to hold back in a mental state he can’t control his actions.

The same way it doesn’t make sense to compare Trunks or Zamasu to Goku Black or Goku when none throws a direct nod to acknowledge that.

It was illustrated by Akira Toriyama meaning that he was directly involved within it. The novelization doesn't contradict what we are shown as Broly can clearly rationalize what people are saying or doing such as mimicking Goku's stance or actually acknowledging Goku's words when he claimed that Broly wasn't such a bad guy. He was enraged during his entire bout with Vegeta yet was smirking when he battled Goku.

There doesn't need to be a direct nod when the fight makes it very clear. The only thing we know for certain is that Future Zamasu is inferior to SSJR Goku Black as that was explicitly stated but there's nothing rendering SSJ2 Trunks from being competitive with SSJB Goku outside of outdated information.

Just did a quick research here and found out that Toriyama only provided illustrations, the writer is actually Masatoshi Kusakabe, and he makes other additions, so you can figure this is just one of them.

What is the relevance in saying that Broly can rationalize or mimic stances? He pretty much just moves on battle instinct. The more he fights the more he loses himself there. Anyway, the scene shows Broly juicing up when he is about to fight Goku, a very clear visual indication that he is using more power, so I don’t see from where this idea that he holds back in this specific squabble comes from… seems like a stretchy excuse to fix the scene, but instead just reinforces how non-sensical it is. There is no problem in admitting that.

I honestly don’t understand what you mean by outdated information as nowhere was it claimed or explained how Zamasu and Trunks powered-up in the way you are interpreting. The storytelling is: Zamasu traded bodies with Goku to get stronger. If Future Zamasu is supposed to be a challenge to Super Saiyan Blue, that makes this storytelling incredibly sloppy and hard to defend. Not to mention Trunks getting a new form just to be able to enter that realm of power, which would make it pointless if he already was at that realm.

[Koitsukai]

And you can just compare Goku Blacks' performance before and after flaring his aura. He required help from Future Zamasu towards the middle of the fight and was parried by SSJ2 Trunks. Afterwards, he blatantly overpowered SSJB Goku and Trunks was unable to do anything about it.

I'm referring to Goku who, by only training using the Mafuba, managed to rival SSJB Vegeta. Keep in mind that SSJB Vegeta was inferior to SSJ Goku Black yet surpasses SSJR Goku Black after training in the RoSaT. This power increase is never properly accounted for which is a common complaint among most people who've read the manga. This is undeniable.

Because he was doing so before. If Trunks was a nuisance, he would have urged him to fall back as he has always done with Z Senshi and as he's done with Kaioshin and Gowasu.

You are trying to make sense of an arc that has base Black tanking SSB Vegeta's rampage and even kicking him a way, and then the same Vegeta overpowers SSR Black until he gets stronger and stabs him.
After this "power up", Black who defeated Vegeta is now overpowering Goku. Nothing really has changed. There's a huge difference between a saiyan fighter and two lame gods, one linked to Beerus, who don't fight, specially when you are outnumbered and Vegeta is dying near by.

Trunks' improvement happens after Black says this is all his fault. This is when Vegeta's pep talk bares fruit. You are arguing that people just grow many times stronger just because somebody told them to. Does that make sense to you? if it does, great, it does not make sense at all to me.
Trunks entered Black's realm with his rage form, I mean, if he was already blue level, and then he gets another huge power boost, he should be on Merged Zamasu level. But most importantly, why again, if he already was up there with the rest?

In the manga, Goku mastered SSB, while Vegeta mastered the god-blue switch, getting the most out of SSB. And SSB Vegeta wasn't actually inferior to SS Black, incomplete SSB just sucks, this was already stated in the previous arc vs Hit, so it was all accounted for. Whis couldn't have been more clear about this subject.

Just did a quick research here and found out that Toriyama only provided illustrations, the writer is actually Masatoshi Kusakabe, and he makes other additions, so you can figure this is just one of them.

What is the relevance in saying that Broly can rationalize or mimic stances? He pretty much just moves on battle instinct. The more he fights the more he loses himself there. Anyway, the scene shows Broly juicing up when he is about to fight Goku, a very clear visual indication that he is using more power, so I don’t see from where this idea that he holds back in this specific squabble comes from… seems like a stretchy excuse to fix the scene, but instead just reinforces how non-sensical it is. There is no problem in admitting that.

I honestly don’t understand what you mean by outdated information as nowhere was it claimed or explained how Zamasu and Trunks powered-up in the way you are interpreting. The storytelling is: Zamasu traded bodies with Goku to get stronger. If Future Zamasu is supposed to be a challenge to Super Saiyan Blue, that makes this storytelling incredibly sloppy and hard to defend. Not to mention Trunks getting a new form just to be able to enter that realm of power, which would make it pointless if he already was at that realm.

Yeah, this. I wouldn't put much stock into a light novel when Toriyama had already told the story through a movie. And it was written by someone else, so there's that, too.

Broly's form is referred to as rage, ikari... he is out of control, even Paragus says he cannot control himself in that form... and this novel, that people have so much respect for, says that he is actually holding his punches...??? so he is out of control yet in control... ?
The novel is directly contradicting the movie, not just the movie, it contradicts the concept of being out of control and the concept of a rage form, and just to explain some dumb Toei combat scenes there to have a lengthier movie.
The novel might be nice and all but it only fits the novel continuity, not the movie's.

[Goku9001]

Just did a quick research here and found out that Toriyama only provided illustrations, the writer is actually Masatoshi Kusakabe, and he makes other additions, so you can figure this is just one of them.

What is the relevance in saying that Broly can rationalize or mimic stances? He pretty much just moves on battle instinct. The more he fights the more he loses himself there. Anyway, the scene shows Broly juicing up when he is about to fight Goku, a very clear visual indication that he is using more power, so I don’t see from where this idea that he holds back in this specific squabble comes from… seems like a stretchy excuse to fix the scene, but instead just reinforces how non-sensical it is. There is no problem in admitting that.

I honestly don’t understand what you mean by outdated information as nowhere was it claimed or explained how Zamasu and Trunks powered-up in the way you are interpreting. The storytelling is: Zamasu traded bodies with Goku to get stronger. If Future Zamasu is supposed to be a challenge to Super Saiyan Blue, that makes this storytelling incredibly sloppy and hard to defend. Not to mention Trunks getting a new form just to be able to enter that realm of power, which would make it pointless if he already was at that realm.

Right, meaning he was directly involved it and approved it hence why he contributed to it in the first place.

None of what you said proves your point. It can be argued that Broly instinctively attacked Vegeta with bloodlust given Paragus' hatred towards Vegeta. Against Goku, his Saiyan instincts kicked in and merely fought for enjoyment rather than bloodlust hence why Broly smiled when he fought Goku and even mimicked his stance. Broly holding back here for the sake of the fight makes far more sense than assuming inconsistencies whenever it's convenient.

It's outdated because the Trunks who battled Goku Black initially is not the same one that fought alongside Goku. Trunks was completely powerless against Base Goku Black yet is capable of battling alongside SSJB Goku and briefly battled against SSJR Goku Black. You can argue that it's an inconsistency, but there's a stark contrast between Trunks' abilities at the beginning of the arc and the moment he battles Future Zamasu and SSJR Goku Black. Trunks was completely powerless against Base Goku Black to the point where he couldn't do anything whereas later in the arc, Trunks can actually pose some resistance against SSJR Goku Black. Hell, SSJ2 Trunks overpowered Future Zamasu who landed hits on SSJB Goku and he withstood hits from SSJR Goku Black that left both SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta on the ground. So long as he's still weaker than Goku Black, there isn't an issue here.

I never once argued that Future Zamasu is comparable to SSJR Goku Black. SSJR Goku Black consistently surpasses Super Saiyan Blue and can grow stronger rapidly. By the 2nd encounter, Future Zamasu is slightly below SSJB Vegeta whereas SSJR Goku Black can easily tool both SSJ2 Trunks and SSJB Vegeta at the same time. And eventually, he powers up again in response to both Enraged Goku and Ikari Trunks. There's nothing contradictory about Future Zamasu being roughly Blue tier because Goku Black has pulled further and further ahead of that time and time again.

[Hugo Boss]

You are being needless insistent on this matter, I’m not exactly interested in convincing you of anything, just pointing out that Toriyama approving or contributing to a side project doesn’t mean I should consider its additions.

Worthwhile, Broly doesn’t even smile or shows enjoyment in fighting Goku in the movie. He doesn’t enjoy fighting nor he does make such a distinction with Goku and Vegeta, wtf. Broly holds back despite his body getting all juiced up to fight Goku? Err… Let me tell you this, it’s not a matter of convenience to assume inconsistencies, it’s a matter of understanding how the story introduces the character and when it doesn’t make sense some aspects of it. Toriyama’s seal of approval has nothing to do with our free will to point the flaws in his work, he might not even be responsible for this particular tidbit.

Fine. So, you don’t see why Zamasu being Blue tier doesn’t make sense from a storytelling standpoint. He is overpowered by SS2, yet he can give SSB a run for its money. And at the same time Trunks has been Goku Black’s punching bag for roughly a year and just a quick sparring session with Vegeta makes him leaps and bounds stronger. No visual indication nor a direct nod. Like, okay. I might as well question the reasoning behind Zamasu wishing for more strength when all it should take to challenge Blue was wishing for immortality.

[ZombieVito]

You are being needless insistent on this matter, I’m not exactly interested in convincing you of anything, just pointing out that Toriyama approving or contributing to a side project doesn’t mean I should consider its additions.

Worthwhile, Broly doesn’t even smile or shows enjoyment in fighting Goku in the movie. He doesn’t enjoy fighting nor he does make such a distinction with Goku and Vegeta, wtf. Broly holds back despite his body getting all juiced up to fight Goku? Err… Let me tell you this, it’s not a matter of convenience to assume inconsistencies, it’s a matter of understanding how the story introduces the character and when it doesn’t make sense some aspects of it. Toriyama’s seal of approval has nothing to do with our free will to point the flaws in his work, he might not even be responsible for this particular tidbit.

Fine. So, you don’t see why Zamasu being Blue tier doesn’t make sense from a storytelling standpoint. He is overpowered by SS2, yet he can give SSB a run for its money. And at the same time Trunks has been Goku Black’s punching bag for roughly a year and just a quick sparring session with Vegeta makes him leaps and bounds stronger. No visual indication nor a direct nod. Like, okay. I might as well question the reasoning behind Zamasu wishing for more strength when all it should take to challenge Blue was wishing for immortality.

Yeah, storywise it makes absolutely no sense for Future Zamasu to be anywhere near SSG level, let alone SSB.

He just kept up with Goku because of immortality.

[Koitsukai]

My last two cents on this matter are that, with arcs or series that have several writers that seem to do their own thing, and also with a lot of padding for whatever reason(usually to meet the 20' mark), it's better to take a step back and look at the arc as a whole, and not get lost in the minutiae that might not make much sense.

A closer look, in these cases, gets us nowhere, we end up wondering how can this be if that other thing happened, and we miss the forest for the trees. These trees don't tend to be there to make a point, but to make a full forest.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah. Think of episode 122 for example: All of the sudden Goku and Vegeta can fight Blue with just SSJB and Base Freeza is handling a whooping from Dyspo. Kanzenshuu’s episode guide does list the screenwriters of each episode, so maybe someone could take the effort to compare their writing some time.

On the novel, novelizations are often done to go in depth about certain details the movie left vague, and are rarely written by the original team who worked in the movie anyway. I’m definitely willing to take the novel into account here, specially since we’re talking a character’s thoughts, something we were not privy to in the movie.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah. Think of episode 122 for example: All of the sudden Goku and Vegeta can fight Blue with just SSJB and Base Freeza is handling a whooping from Dyspo. Kanzenshuu’s episode guide does list the screenwriters of each episode, so maybe someone could take the effort to compare their writing some time.

On the novel, novelizations are often done to go in depth about certain details the movie left vague, and are rarely written by the original team who worked in the movie anyway. I’m definitely willing to take the novel into account here, specially since we’re talking a character’s thoughts, something we were not privy to in the movie.

Well Freeza does say Dyspo is easy to predict and the guy is a tank when it comes to endurance. I see nothing wrong with his fight against Dyspo.

I guess Jiren doesn't go overboard when fighting weaker opponents to not risk killing them. It's a no kill tournament after all.

[Goku9001]

I'll add in my final two cents before moving on. You're free to ignore the additions that the novelization has made, but that doesn't discredit the fact that Akira Toriyama was directly involved in, approved it presumably knowing the contents of the novelization, and was written in conjunction with the movie's development hence its simultaneous release. The novelization is designed to clarify details that couldn't have been conveyed in the movie for whatever reason and so Toriyama's approval of it means he views it as the objective reality of the movie. This also means that the simultaneous release means that it wasn't some sloppy afterthought that was written after realizing that he screwed up. Whether or not you acknowledge those additions is up to you. However, I wouldn't propose that the Broly movie is some objective inconsistent mess on the basis of Broly's fight with Goku since an explicit explanation was actually given on this.

To add to that point, there is a precedent in which Saiyans blatantly hold back to enjoy their fight. Goku blatantly did this as a Super Saiyan 2 during his encounter with Goku Black where he was prolonging the fight for his enjoyment during the entire fight. Likewise, Goku Black also deliberately suppressed himself as confirmed by Trunks yet every fighter that was present confirmed that Goku Black was growing stronger throughout the fight. Nothing within the scene itself suggest that the novel goes against Broly's instincts. Broly's instinct was to kill Vegeta hence his immediate urge to attack him. Broly bears no such ill-will towards Goku and is a pure-blooded Saiyan. It's in his nature to enjoy fighting hence him smiling during his fight with Goku and him smirking when Goku promised that he would return and fight him again. It seems that you are needlessly insistent on the entire scene being inconsistent when there is a complete logical explanation given by the author that rationalizes all of this which is consistent with a previous showing in the anime.

I'm not too interested in the Zamasu debate. The basis of your argument depends on Future Zamasu losing to a Super Saiyan 2 despite it being clear that said Super Saiyan 2 can battle on the level of a Super Saiyan Blue hence his ability to survive Blue-level attacks and trade blows SSJR Goku Black. I'm just repeating myself here and we're never going to agree here. Regardless of what you believe, that is a visual indication. If you want an indication in the case of Future Zamasu, he blatantly overpowers SSJB Goku during their initial clash. Afterwards, Zamasu states that Goku Black agreed that he would kill SSJB Goku before immortality had come into play. Everything in the narrative points towards both Trunks and Zamasu being much stronger than their previous counterparts. The only thing Zamasu confirms is that Goku Black is intended to be much stronger than him, which makes sense. Being much stronger than Blue leveled opponents would ensure their victory whereas Zamasu might only be able to contend with one. And even then, Zamasu accounted for the Saiyans' ability to grow and evolve which only Goku Black could match up with.

That said, Frieza's performance with Dyspo only means that Frieza grew stronger as did Goku, Vegeta, and Android 17 did during the tournament. Nothing wrong with that.

[Hugo Boss]

Broly's instinct was to kill Vegeta hence his immediate urge to attack him. Broly bears no such ill-will towards Goku and is a pure-blooded Saiyan.

Where this idea comes from? The movie spends a lot of time presenting Broly as a Saiyan who doesn’t enjoy fighting despite being a pure-blooded one. He only fights for the sake of his father.

It's in his nature to enjoy fighting hence him smiling during his fight with Goku and him smirking when Goku promised that he would return and fight him again. It seems that you are needlessly insistent on the entire scene being inconsistent when there is a complete logical explanation given by the author that rationalizes all of this which is consistent with a previous showing in the anime.

When did Broly smile during the fight? I just remember he doing that at the end of the movie, you know when he was able to actually listen to Goku. That moment strikes me more like “oh, this guy is being nice to me” than “I can’t wait to fight this super strong dude”.

[ZombieVito]

Broly smiles while fighting SSB Goku.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That said, Frieza's performance with Dyspo only means that Frieza grew stronger as did Goku, Vegeta, and Android 17 did during the tournament. Nothing wrong with that.

That’s a Saiyan-only ability though.