The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Let me try to offer some more versus matches.
Goku (before training with Karin), Jackie Chun (21st tournament), #8 (enraged) vs Tao Pai Pai
Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan (all against first form Freeza) vs Freeza (first form) vs Turles (after eating fruit when he was beating Goku's KKx10)
Ultimate Gohan (maintainable Kaioken x2) vs Buutenks
SSJ2 Goku Black (seemed to have the advantage against pre trained SSJB Vegeta after his zenkai) vs Dyspo
Goku (before training with Karin), Jackie Chun (21st tournament), #8 (enraged) vs Tao Pai Pai
Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan (all against first form Freeza) vs Freeza (first form) vs Turles (after eating fruit when he was beating Goku's KKx10)
Ultimate Gohan (maintainable Kaioken x2) vs Buutenks
SSJ2 Goku Black (seemed to have the advantage against pre trained SSJB Vegeta after his zenkai) vs Dyspo
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I actually have 8 stronger than Tao. The team takes it.Lionel wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:37 pm Let me try to offer some more versus matches.
Goku (before training with Karin), Jackie Chun (21st tournament), #8 (enraged) vs Tao Pai Pai
Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan (all against first form Freeza) vs Freeza (first form) vs Turles (after eating fruit when he was beating Goku's KKx10)
Ultimate Gohan (maintainable Kaioken x2) vs Buutenks
SSJ2 Goku Black (seemed to have the advantage against pre trained SSJB Vegeta after his zenkai) vs Dyspo
I have Freeza winning but barely. His endurance will give him the win at the end.
Gohan is stronger but is the lesser fighter to Boo. He loses eventually.
I have no idea how strong SS2 Black is supposed to be. That chapter and the previous one are notorious for their horrendous power scaling.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1- I think a team up can do it. Android 8 can probably do it on his own, but remove him and I think the Kame School can take Tao out.Lionel wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:37 pm Let me try to offer some more versus matches.
Goku (before training with Karin), Jackie Chun (21st tournament), #8 (enraged) vs Tao Pai Pai
Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan (all against first form Freeza) vs Freeza (first form) vs Turles (after eating fruit when he was beating Goku's KKx10)
Ultimate Gohan (maintainable Kaioken x2) vs Buutenks
SSJ2 Goku Black (seemed to have the advantage against pre trained SSJB Vegeta after his zenkai) vs Dyspo
2- Goku was 30,000 I think, according to Daizenshuu. Turles was beating him silly, so he needs to be at least 400,000. Vegeta was fighting on par with First Form Freeza, so he should be above Turles.
I think Freeza has the edge due to his durability, but Vegeta has Gohan, who could tilt the scale. Tough one, I think Freeza takes this one, if not, they all die after he destroys the planet.
3- I don't think Buutenks was that much stronger than Gohan. I think Buutenks goes down. If he can mantain KKx2, he should at least be able to outlast the fusion.
4- It was actually SS Black, I was under the same impression that he was using SS2, but Grimlock cleared that out for me.
His SS, while below SS2 Vegeta, was still above SS3 Goku, who was most likely below 17, so SS Black probably is strong enough to make 17 sweat. Dyspo stalemated with 17, and was out of air after fighting him. So Dyspo and SS Black probably would have a similar fight.
With SS2, Black oneshots.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
The team wins. I think Android 8 is only a couple steps behind Tao, which is enough for Goku and Jackie to cover him.Lionel wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:37 pm Let me try to offer some more versus matches.
Goku (before training with Karin), Jackie Chun (21st tournament), #8 (enraged) vs Tao Pai Pai
Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan (all against first form Freeza) vs Freeza (first form) vs Turles (after eating fruit when he was beating Goku's KKx10)
Ultimate Gohan (maintainable Kaioken x2) vs Buutenks
SSJ2 Goku Black (seemed to have the advantage against pre trained SSJB Vegeta after his zenkai) vs Dyspo
Probably the team. Even though it's a three way fight I think the Saiyans are naturally attacking Freeza first, and once Freeza is done Tullece can't take Vegeta and the others. Even if Tullece is smart and attacks the team first, i think Gohan's rage boosts are going to come in handy.
Definitely Gohan. If we consider Boo's absorptions to be additive, then not even Gohan-Boo should be twice as strong as Gohan.
Dyspo was beating SSJ2 Goku around in the ToP, so Goku Black won't be doing any better here.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
In novel SSJ Broly is suggested to be the strongest mortal ever, so even SSJ1 Gogeta should destroy Kefla here. Maybe base depending on how strong SSJB Goku is in the movie, but probably not.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
A single Cell Jr destroys him. I have Kuririn on Android Saga SSJ level.
Probably Black. I have Anime characters like 1,000x their Manga counterparts, so Black can just get one of those clones to kill Merged Zamasu.
SSJ4 Goku, easily. We know at least SBV1 is > Super Vegetto. Add in whatever boost SBV2 got and the 10x from Golden Oozaru and even Oozaru Baby Vegeta should murk SSJ3 Vegetto, let alone SSJ4 Goku.
Trunks should win based on the Anime > Manga principle. He’s Anime SSJB level, Kale is barely Manga SSJB.
Piccolo one shots.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1- Gogeta would not be able to touch Goku, but 2nd Omen won't be able to do any harm to somebody more than twice stronger than SS Broly. Goku will drop out of the form soon enough, probably taking some hits in the process. 3rd Omen might be needed here.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
2- Krilin dies horribly, while the other 6 Cell Jrs are checking their social media.
3- While the anime has stronger scaling, there's no way one fusee can take his own fusion based on cross-media inflation alone. It's hard to find equivalencies, but manga MZ would be at least as strong as Halo Merged Zamasu, who was overpowering everybody and got screwed over by the KKxGoku that broke his own arms. So, Zamasu before growing a giant arm.
Black is dead.
4- Goku. Vegeta Baby 1 was above Buuhan, so Vegeta Baby 2 has to be Super Vegito level. SS3 Vegito would be 8x stronger than Vegeta Baby 2, while Ohzaru VB would be 10x stronger. So, Initial SS4 Goku would already be above Vegito. It would be the easiest fight for SS4 Goku, aside of a few silly dragons.
5- Trunks might struggle a bit, but eventually he'll read Kale's moves, who will start losing steam. Trunks can take this easily if he is smart.
6- Hard to say, Piccolo got stronger by the Moro arc, though it doesn't seem, based on his new movie form, that he got as strong as people initially believed. I'd say Moro arc Piccolo can put up a good fight, pre-Moro arc Piccolo is destroyed.
I'd wait for the movie for this one.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight): GreatSaiyaman123's reference of Broly being described as the most powerful mortal ever from the novel suggests that not even Ultra Instinct from the previous arc would be enough to win. I'll also hand the victory to Gogeta.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs: The anime is wonky in its power presentation. During the build up to the tournament Krillin was engaging Goku in combat and holding his own against the Saiyan in his base state; even managed to avoid a ki projectile from Super Saiyan. Prior to that practice match we see Goku tussling with a new and improved trained Good Buu. I see this iteration of Krillin winning, oddly enough.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality): I think Goku's completed blue form is superior to the results of training Vegeta reaped from his fourth go around in the ROSAT in the anime version. By extension you can juxtapose the comparison of Black to Zamasu under these conditions. With that said, Goku Black's dimensional rift that seemed innately usable for his battle effort was never properly countered. If Zamasu can't somehow deal with it then he may lose due to attritional warfare despite having a higher power level. Perhaps killing Black would stop the clone production.
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga) Goku as a standard Super Saiyan was outperforming the likes of SSJ Vegeta and Uub (fused with Buu) against Super 17. Go figure. In the Rildo battle wasn't he measuring up well against the metallic being who had a power superior to the vaguely defined Buu? In his untransformed state, mind you. I personally prefer to use the more conservative estimate of Fat Buu or Kid Buu. Two sagas later with his improvements and I'm wandering if SSJ4 Goku couldn't take his SSJG counterpart from BOG. The question of his SSJ4 fighting SSJ3 Vegetto here should be self explanatory, in my opinion.
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga): Kale in the manga was an opponent who took various blue tier fighters by surprise with her strength but it wasn't enough to deter Goku or Freeza from declaring that they could handle her. We see how Kale's mindless brutality quickly began to take a toll on her and the Pride Troopers, the weaker ones mind you, could launch a decent counterattack that was wearing her down. Trunks here may already be stronger than Kale simply by virtue of his performance against a waning Merged Zamasu. I see him winning this.
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan: The manga or the anime? In the anime his Chobakuretsumaha was weathered, albeit narrowly, by an untransformed Goku. If you choose to regard the Copy Vegeta versus Gotenks incident then Piccolo should by extension have no trouble if he's pressuring someone superior to that Vegeta.
In the manga you can look at Piccolo as closer to the Super Saiyans through his comparable performance to Frost against certain mutual opponents and Frost's lack of concern at being confronted by SSJ Goku. Consider how a base Goku could better withstand Rumsshi's battle cry than Shin. Piccolo may be win to this if we're using modest estimates for the Buu arc fighters. If it's the high end inflationary standards like Super Buu and higher being hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, though, then Piccolo likely won't win.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Come to think of it, I think Kuririn could beat a Cell Jr, maybe two. We saw in the recruitment and the tournament itself that Kuririn has got plenty of trick up his sleeve, and Gohan even imagined he could hold his own with Basil a bit before seeing how much Kuririn had improved. Multiple Jrs would be too much though, even if he tries Tayouken x100 there'd be at least one who dodges it.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Gogeta gets one shotted. He needs SSB to be compete (And beat) against the best fighters of the ToP.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
Krillin sadly can't win. He was weaker than Namek Freeza still by the Top arc.
Now this is interesting. I have CSSB be the equivalent to SSB of the anime so Goku Black should win this since he was stronger than Goku by the end of the arc.
Goku wins.
Trunks after a good fight. Kale was said to be manageable if fighting seriously by Freeza.
Buuhan is still a little stronger than him. That plus regeneration hax makes Boo the winner.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight) Basically, Broly in his Wrathful state was losing to SSB Goku, but was more or less holding his own very well. So when he turned Super Saiyan, if we ascribe the old multipliers and take it from his Wrathful state (not his base form), then Super Saiyan Broly is almost 50x stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Which puts Super Saiyan Gogeta on the same ballpark. Which is more or less the same place I put the U7 Spirit Bomb that Goku threw at Jiren, which didn't work. I imagine SS2 Gogeta then would be vaguely close to that level Jiren displayed - which is not enough to secure a win against Goku's second usage of UI Sign. Hell, because Kefla's Super Saiyan is supposed to be juiced by Kale's "Legendary" form, it's SS2 doesn't even need to be a "mere" twice stronger than the previous form - hence, to me, SS2 Kefla is even stronger than SS2 Gogeta.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs. Yeah, Krillin ain't winning this. If they did anything at all with his powerup from when he trained with Goku in that forest, maybe I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. But as it stands, he would still lose to a single Cell Jr.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality) Merged Zamasu from the manga was definitely weaker than his anime counterpart since he could be blown apart like that by Vegito in his base (which shouldn't be stronger than CSSB Goku). That said, that's still stronger than Black with Rosé, enough to put him down. What matters here then is which Zamasu is most likely to pull a victory - and honestly, I think anime!Black is a more competent and crafty version of Zamasu then the manga one.
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga) That one is surprisingly simple. We all consider base Goku to be on par with Buu because he fought against Rildo pretty well without transforming. So, in his base, he's likely as strong as his SS3 during the Buu Saga. That's more or less where I have Z Vegito in his base, as well. So, Super Vegito is equal to SS Goku. With this in mind, SS3 Vegito would be equal to SS3 Goku (GT). SS4 Goku would definitely defeat this SS3 Vegito, then.
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga) Kale in the manga was only close-ish to Goku's SSB level, while Rage Trunks was solidly on that level. Trunks would eventually win.
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan Good question. I'd say Buuhan has the means to win this, with his magic, regeneration and Gohan's raw power added to his own. But I imagine it would be a close fight.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1. Gogeta loses after a decent battle. I personally have Ssj2 Gogeta slightly weaker than Uio2 Goku. Goku has the advantage of dodging almost every thing that Gogeta can throw at him. And defeats him after tonight battle.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
2. Krillin dies horribly. I have current Krillin at best around imperfect cell levels.
3. Dbs anime variants are so much stronger than their manga variants. Better feats. Black slaughters.
4. It was implied in GT perfect files that Ssj4 Gogeta in baby arc was comparable to Ssj Vegito. I doubt he would have grown that much in one arc. If the Perfect Files are accurate, Ssj3 Vegito slaughters Goku.
5. Excluding manga variants. SsjRage Trunks beats Kale with mid difficulty. When she perfect her Berserk form. Ssjgod Goku could beat her and caulifa.
6. Moro Arc Piccolo was able to handle 7/3 after he absorbed both his power and gohan. I’d imaged pre Superhero arc piccolo is around Buuhan to Vegito levels. He wins with mid to high difficulty.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
SSJ2 Gogeta wins. The novelization clarifies that SSJ Broly was the most powerful mortal (presumably) that Frieza has ever encountered which would naturally include Jiren and MUI Goku. Super Gogeta was slightly above SSJ Broly so Super Gogeta let alone SSJ2 Gogeta would naturally be above a much weaker version of Goku.MrGohanks wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:11 am SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight)
Krillin (ToP anime) vs all 7 Cell jrs.
SSJR Goku Black (anime peak, scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)
SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Berserk Kale (manga)
Piccolo (Post-ToP) vs Enraged Buuhan
Krillin would likely lose. He's not as powerful as the Cell Jrs given that he's still much weaker than Base Rusty Gohan and I don't think his skill and battle experience will work against multiple, stronger targets at the same time.
Difficult to say. SSJR Goku Black powers multiple times in the anime but in the manga, Goku Black explicitly receives a significantly greater boost from Super Saiyan Rose than he does in the anime. On top of that, SSJ Goku Black was stronger than SSJB Vegeta so the gap between SSJR Goku Black and Vegeta was greater than the difference between Super Saiyan and Blue. I'm not sure if Goku Black's powered up that much in the anime. And Merged Zamasu in the manga, despite how "weak" he is, still powered up multi-fold. It's hard to say who would win here.
SSJ4 Goku wins I think. Haven't watched GT in a long time.
SSJ Rage Trunks loses. Berserk Kale is stronger than Blue tier whereas Rage Trunks towards the end was below SSJB Vegeta.
Piccolo seemed to be near Blue tier after the Tournament of Power since he seemed fairly relative with Gohan so Enraged Buuhan would get smacked assuming he can't use god ki.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
This is a good take.Thani wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:37 pm SSJ2 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (ToP Kefla fight) Basically, Broly in his Wrathful state was losing to SSB Goku, but was more or less holding his own very well. So when he turned Super Saiyan, if we ascribe the old multipliers and take it from his Wrathful state (not his base form), then Super Saiyan Broly is almost 50x stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Which puts Super Saiyan Gogeta on the same ballpark. Which is more or less the same place I put the U7 Spirit Bomb that Goku threw at Jiren, which didn't work. I imagine SS2 Gogeta then would be vaguely close to that level Jiren displayed - which is not enough to secure a win against Goku's second usage of UI Sign. Hell, because Kefla's Super Saiyan is supposed to be juiced by Kale's "Legendary" form, it's SS2 doesn't even need to be a "mere" twice stronger than the previous form - hence, to me, SS2 Kefla is even stronger than SS2 Gogeta.
To scale Sign we can use the special. Jiren glared away KKx20 but was taking hits from Sign. That's at least twice as strong, if not more(FP SSBE seemed to be twice KKx20, and Sign was even beyond).
That's around 40-50x boost on top of SSB for the 1st Sign. Similar to SS Broly and SS Gogeta.
I'd place the Genki Dama (and SS Kefla) close to 1st Sign because it sort of fueled him and SS Kefla having that power made him activate Sign for the second time. SS2 Kefla is above 1st Sign, so at least twice as strong, so 80-100x SSB, where 2nd Sign and SS2 Gogeta would be.
I know it's odd to have SS2 Kefla and SS2 Gogeta on par, but with Kale being the wild card it does make sense to me. It's a freaky green SS2 after all, not the regular golden one.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1- I'm sure he is on par with that Goku, by U6 arc. Though, by RoF he was below SS Gohan who was just crap. So if he was already losing steam by RoF, then by BoG he shouldn't be much stronger. I dunno, RoF really messes everything up, so without that awful movie in mind, I'd say BoG Piccolo should at least be a decent match for SS Goku from the Buu saga.MrGohanks wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:45 pm Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
2- Trunks. He was actually fighting SSRose, while Android 17 was doing nothing to Toppo, not even with Gohan's help.
3- Moro arc Gohan to me is on par with ToP SSB fighters, that would be Broly movie SSB Goku. I think Gogeta takes it, barely. Even if they are equally strong, Gogeta has much more skills and expertise.
4- Vegeta takes it. Pre-boost, it was implied to be equal to SSBKKx20, and Freeza was on par with SSB during the ToP. Freeza did not get 20x stronger after the ToP.
5- The kids in SS were giving 18 some trouble. I would assume Base Gotenks would be as strong as the kids as SS, so with that in mind he'd still be far behind #16 (if #18 remains as strong as in the previous arc).
Although, SS Goten wasn't that far off SS Gohan, and that Gohan should be way above the androids. So Base Gotenks would be as strong as a SS that can easily take out the androids.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga): No way to tell. All we know is that Piccolo performed less efficiently against Beerus than Buu and Gotenks in the anime which isn't saying much given who their opponent was. If you want to make an extrapolation based on Piccolo's continual pursuit of training then maybe he could be reasonably placed at a comparable level to MSSJ Goku from the Cell Games. Not sure I would go any higher than MSSJ Gohan. In that case he would lose but perhaps after a somewhat difficult fight.MrGohanks wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:45 pm Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime): Blue Goku and #17 may have been peers of one another. The notion is reinforced by their similar performance against Agnilasa. Oppositely #17 was on the defensive against Toppo while Goku fought the Pride Trooper as an equal. I seem to recall Goku overcoming a projectile from Merged Zamasu similarly to Trunks though Zamasu had declined even further by the time Trunks had reentered the fray.
So the mutual evidence piece is Goku and how much he improved between the Goku Black and TOP arcs. #17 was close to having parity with blue Goku. Ikari Trunks could pressure Zamasu who had noticeably deteriorated further than when Goku overcame him. Goku could contend with Hit afterwards without amplifying his blue state with Kaioken. The preceding build up to the Tournament of Power would have seen Goku improve even more.
I think I'll go ahead and say #17 wins by virtue of challenging a Goku who would have grown significantly stronger between arcs.
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly): Base Gogeta could anticipate and avoid ki projectiles from LSSJ Broly who in the novel is stated to be the most powerful mortal ever or something. I take it that statement includes the knowledge of Jiren and MUI Goku from the TOP. Ultimate Gohan was leaving no noticeable impact against Moro who was admittedly stronger than the evolved blue form of Vegeta's and Goku's improved Ultra Instinct Omen.
Maybe it's a close fight. I agree that Gogeta would win by virtue of greater experience and skills if their strength parity is accurate.
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly): All these spontaneous increases become confusing. You mean when Vegeta initially unlocked the evolved state in the anime and was equal to Kaioken x20 blue Goku? We don't know how powerful Freeza was at the time of the Broly movie except that he performed worse than SSJB Goku and Vegeta together against Broly. Since he hardly ever trains I guess I'll also say that he loses here.
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16: Gotenks is a presumptuous overconfident child with an inflated ego of his capabilities. Having said that, he must have felt that he could at least do better than Vegeta who his fusees saw battling Fat Buu. If he didn't even make that assessment then he's judgmentally inhibited as well. I'll go ahead and say that he wins this match. #16 has the advantage of infinite stamina but the power gap seems like too much for it to matter. I'm not even sure the self-destruct device would kill Gotenks here.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Piccolo loses badly. He doesn't surpass the Boo arc Super Saiyans until the U6 arc.MrGohanks wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:45 pm Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
Trunks wins after a very hard fight.
Gogeta but with difficulty.
Freeza gets finger flicked.
Gotenks gets one shotted.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Goku one shots. I don’t think Piccolo made any serious gains until he started training with Gohan.MrGohanks wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:45 pm Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
Could go either way. Goku wanted to take another shot at Zamasu but didn’t have any senzus, so Zamasu may have gotten that weak and Trunks was stronger than him. Normal SSJR Trunks seemed to be on pair with SSJBs though, so a whatever boost he got by absorbing people’s Genki would make him stronger than 17. I’m betting on Trunks here.
Not sure. Probably Gogeta since Gohan doesn’t need to be that strong. Not sure if Gohan even surpassed ToP SSJBE Vegeta.
I’m going with Freeza. I like to think Broly Freeza was above Goku and Vegeta’s beyond SSJB forms, but not by much since he probably can’t beat both Saiyans.
Gotenks one shots anyone in the Cell Saga.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Piccolo (Battle of Gods) vs. Super Saiyan Goku (Buu): In the anime continuity, it's established that Base Gohan was the strongest of the group in Resurrection of F which places Piccolo below Base Gohan by default. This Gohan was noted to have gotten out of shape, looked considerably the worst he's ever been physically, and was uncertain as to whether or not he could even use Super Saiyan properly. Gohan should be at best, on the level he was at when using the Z Sword so Piccolo should presumably be much weaker than Super Saiyan Goku. In the manga, Piccolo is only made out to be weaker than Super Saiyan Rusty Gohan but there's nothing to suggest that he powered up all that much during the Battle of Gods. Piccolo should lose in both continuities.MrGohanks wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:45 pm Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ Rage Trunks (peak, no spirit sword) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)
Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Base Gogeta (DBS Broly)
SSBE Vegeta (before the pride boost) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)
Base Gotenks (before ROSAT training) vs Android 16
SSJ Rage Trunks vs. Android 17 (Super Anime): Android 17 should be stronger here. He seemed relatively on par with Super Saiyan Blue Goku at his peak given his performances against Jiren. At worst, he's still shown to be slightly weaker than Toppo who forced SSJB Goku to use Kaioken x10 at the beginning of the Tournament of Power. Android 17 should have the edge here especially with his infinite stamina.
Ultimate Gohan (Moro) vs. Base Gogeta (DBS Broly): Base Gogeta should win. The novelization seems to suggest that SSJ Broly may have surpassed Jiren and MUI Goku and Base Gogeta posed a decent amount of resistance against SSJ Broly.
SSJBE Vegeta vs. Golden Frieza (DBS Broly): The novelization suggests that Golden Frieza's power-up pushed SSJ Broly back (also shown in the movie) and has attacks that can actually damage SSJ Broly. It also suggests that Golden Frieza's ability to survive 30 minutes against Broly was attributed to his power and SSJ Broly was stronger than Jiren presumably. SSJBE Vegeta prior to the pride boost could barely survive against GoD Toppo let alone damage him. Golden Frieza should be stronger based on the novelization.
Base Gotenks (Pre) vs. Android 16: Base Gotenks should be much stronger here. Base Gotenks should be stronger than the sum of SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks' power.



