Vegeta was given so many chances in DBZ

[dva_raza]

You are the one trying to make Goku look completely blameless when he so obviously isn't. There's no good reason for Goku not using SSJ3 on Vegeta nor for not just killing Fat Buu.

Ok I see you’ve entered loop mode.

Again, you just nonsensically repeating the same things without counterarguing what was answered to them already doesn’t solidify your nonsensical version of things.
I don’t need to try anything to make anybody "look” in any way. I’m just recounting what happens in the story while you are too busy making things up.

Once more:
You can’t just ignore things that happen in the story so you can mold it according to your satisfaction (when talking about facts), and that’s literally what you’re doing.


If not, DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THIS?

If the only reason Goku didn't use SS3 (according to you) was to "indulge" Vegeta, then why is he not using it after Vegeta is dead already? Why is he just sitting there and telling Krillin he's sorry that he can't do anything to beat Buu?

[Anonymous Friend]

There's no good reason for Goku not using SSJ3 on Vegeta nor for not just killing Fat Buu.

1. using it limits his one day stay in the living world.

2. As a resident of the afterlife, he should be trying his best not to interfer at all in the matter of the living. He was supposed to only pop in to have engage in a fighting tourney, mostly to just mess around with his friends. Granted this Goku we're talking about, and he did kinda get recruited by Supreme Kai.

[MrGohanks]

You are the one trying to make Goku look completely blameless when he so obviously isn't. There's no good reason for Goku not using SSJ3 on Vegeta nor for not just killing Fat Buu.

Ok I see you’ve entered loop mode.

Again, you just nonsensically repeating the same things without counterarguing what was answered to them already doesn’t solidify your nonsensical version of things.
I don’t need to try anything to make anybody "look” in any way. I’m just recounting what happens in the story while you are too busy making things up.

Once more:
You can’t just ignore things that happen in the story so you can mold it according to your satisfaction (when talking about facts), and that’s literally what you’re doing.


If not, DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THIS?

If the only reason Goku didn't use SS3 (according to you) was to "indulge" Vegeta, then why is he not using it after Vegeta is dead already? Why is he just sitting there and telling Krillin he's sorry that he can't do anything to beat Buu?

"You can’t just ignore things that happen in the story so you can mold it according to your satisfaction (when talking about facts), and that’s literally what you’re doing."

This is exactly what you are doing, hypocrisy much lol?

If using SSJ3 (which he did do after Vegeta's death) was too costly then he would have never pulled it out against Fat Buu at all, simple. And Goku lied to Krillin about not being able to do anything against Fat Buu. He admitted right before fighting Kid Buu that he could have easily killed Fat Buu if he wanted, a fact you are living in denial of lol.

[MrGohanks]

There's no good reason for Goku not using SSJ3 on Vegeta nor for not just killing Fat Buu.

1. using it limits his one day stay in the living world.

2. As a resident of the afterlife, he should be trying his best not to interfer at all in the matter of the living. He was supposed to only pop in to have engage in a fighting tourney, mostly to just mess around with his friends. Granted this Goku we're talking about, and he did kinda get recruited by Supreme Kai.

Those are bad excuses. Protecting the Earth is more important than staying in it for a day, and if Goku isn't supposed to interfere with the world of the living then he would have never even came to Earth for a day in the first place, let alone fight Majin Vegeta at all.

[Zephyr]

Protecting the Earth is more important than staying in it for a day

Well, on one hand, the day was pretty much ruined with the tournament (ie: the reason he came back for a day in the first place) being effectively cancelled.

On the other hand, the match he was gonna have (ie: the only good match he was going to possibly have) got to play out anyway; at least until he realized Boo wasn't actually a joke.

He didn't seem as beat up about it as Gohan did:

[dva_raza]

This is exactly what you are doing, hypocrisy much lol?

If you’re going to elaborate on what the hell that is referring to exactly, go ahead, because I’m kinda starting to get the feel like you just "say things". Tell me one concrete thing that happens in the story that I have ignored (your headcanons obviously don't count as things that happen in the story).

And Goku lied to Krillin about not being able to do anything against Fat Buu

I guess you didn't realize that paraphrasing my question in the form of an affirmation doesn't actually serve as an answer to it.
Let's try again,

If Goku has SS3 at the moment he is told his son is dead and the world's destiny is unclear, why is he sitting there and lying to Krillin about not being able to do anything?

He admitted right before fighting Kid Buu that he could have easily killed Fat Buu if he wanted

I'm pretty sure he was referring specifically to his encounter with Buu when he, you know, went SS3 and fought Buu.
I am asking about the scene with Krillin. Do you have any explanation to that scene that fits coherently within the narrative you're claiming?

[Anonymous Friend]

There's no good reason for Goku not using SSJ3 on Vegeta nor for not just killing Fat Buu.

1. using it limits his one day stay in the living world.

2. As a resident of the afterlife, he should be trying his best not to interfer at all in the matter of the living. He was supposed to only pop in to have engage in a fighting tourney, mostly to just mess around with his friends. Granted this Goku we're talking about, and he did kinda get recruited by Supreme Kai.

Those are bad excuses. Protecting the Earth is more important than staying in it for a day, and if Goku isn't supposed to interfere with the world of the living then he would have never even came to Earth for a day in the first place, let alone fight Majin Vegeta at all.

Non-interfernce is really big on those in the afterlife/otherworld. No one was interfering with Freeza as he went around doing as he liked. King Kai only interferred with anything was because he was chummy with Goju and his dead friends. The only reason Supreme Kai interfered was because Buu is a Kai killer. He would have left a Buu-less Babidi run rampart. In fact, that what they did.

This is the same dude who asked to spare Vegeta's life, when

1. It took the combined efforts of four dudes to bring him down.

2. Everyone knew this dude would probably return for revenge. If Vegeta didn't have to deal with Freeza on Namek, he would have slaughtered all the Namekians, potentially used the DBalls and came back to blow up Earth.

You wanna know the real reason yall cain't find a suitable reason for all of this:

It's a comic/cartoon from the early 90s that the writers made a bunch of stuff up as they went along. He probably spent less time on that stuff than I took to type all this out. sometimes hat's the best answer you'll ever het.

[jjgp1112]

He admitted right before fighting Kid Buu that he could have easily killed Fat Buu if he wanted

I'm pretty sure he was referring specifically to his encounter with Buu when he, you know, went SS3 and fought Buu.

...which means he was lying when he told Krillin he couldn't challenge him!!!!!

Like dude, he told Krillin he had no shot against Buu, only to then reveal that he had a form that at the very least went toe-to-toe with them, then later admits he could have, in fact, beaten him during that encounter. What other way is there to look at it other than that Goku has been with-holding the truth from everyone?

He was lying about having an option against Buu, then lied about being able to defeat him. Even when Piccolo was like "Aight bruh c'mon, you coulda beaten Buu back there right?" Goku still lies but gives his actual motivation between the lines. And then confesses the whole lie to himself. Goku's been lying the whole arc, and that's not us making up an interpretation - that's literally what the text shows us when taken completely at face value.

[dva_raza]

You wanna know the real reason yall cain't find a suitable reason for all of this:

It's a comic/cartoon from the early 90s that the writers made a bunch of stuff up as they went along. He probably spent less time on that stuff than I took to type all this out. sometimes hat's the best answer you'll ever het.

Lol I don't doubt that. But what we're trying to do is integrate a retcon in the most organic way, basically.

[dva_raza]

He admitted right before fighting Kid Buu that he could have easily killed Fat Buu if he wanted

I'm pretty sure he was referring specifically to his encounter with Buu when he, you know, went SS3 and fought Buu.

...which means he was lying when he told Krillin he couldn't challenge him!!!!!

Would you calm yourself and maybe read what I said again?
Cause apparently you're not getting the question if you felt the need to literally repeat the same thing.

I am aware your claim is that he was lying to Krillin.

I am asking, why though? What is your explanation for that?

This literally haven't been answered as of now.

[jjgp1112]

I'm pretty sure he was referring specifically to his encounter with Buu when he, you know, went SS3 and fought Buu.

...which means he was lying when he told Krillin he couldn't challenge him!!!!!

Would you calm yourself and maybe read what I said again?
Cause apparently you're not getting the question if you felt the need to literally repeat the same thing.

I am aware your claim is that he was lying to Krillin.

I am asking, why though? What is your explanation for that?

This literally haven't been answered as of now.

He gave his reasons not once, but twice - he wanted the boys to handle things because being a dead guy, he felt the people that were actually of that world should be handling things rather than a guy who for all intents and purposes doesn't exist anymore.

This is of course bullshit despite having a pretty noble reason behind it, since it was partially Goku's fault that Buu got released to begin with, and Goku HIMSELF even says he's responsible for it.

Comprende? Goku has a hidden motivation for his actions (though admits it to Piccolo) and lies. The text when taken completely as it is, shows that Goku repeatedly withholds the truth in the arc. He lies about going all-out against Vegeta, which is revealed when he goes Super Saiyan 3. He lies to Krillin when he says he had no option against Buu besides fusion, which again is revealed when he goes Super Saiyan 3. He lies when he tells Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks that he couldn't have beaten Buu, which is revealed when he just straight up admits that he could've. Goku be lying.

Debate his reasons why til the cows come home, but the facts are, he was lying a lot. Don't get mad at me, get mad at Bird Mountain.

[dva_raza]

...which means he was lying when he told Krillin he couldn't challenge him!!!!!

Would you calm yourself and maybe read what I said again?
Cause apparently you're not getting the question if you felt the need to literally repeat the same thing.

I am aware your claim is that he was lying to Krillin.

I am asking, why though? What is your explanation for that?

This literally haven't been answered as of now.

He gave his reasons not once, but twice - he wanted the boys to handle things because being a dead guy

Are you joking right now?..

Did you seriously miss the 3 times I debunked this already?

Goku did not think about the kids fusing. That was literally brought up by another person at the end of this scene with Krillin.
Like, that is not something that even occured to him until it was brought up (by either Piccolo or Mr Popo I don't recall)

[jjgp1112]

Would you calm yourself and maybe read what I said again?
Cause apparently you're not getting the question if you felt the need to literally repeat the same thing.

I am aware your claim is that he was lying to Krillin.

I am asking, why though? What is your explanation for that?

This literally haven't been answered as of now.

He gave his reasons not once, but twice - he wanted the boys to handle things because being a dead guy

Are you joking right now?..

Did you seriously miss the 3 times I debunked this already?

Goku did not think about the kids fusing. That was literally brought up by another person at the end of this scene with Krillin.
Like, that is not something that even occured to him until it was brought up (by either Piccolo or Mr Popo I don't recall)

In that case, then it still doesn't matter why he lied - but he did lie. He claimed that Vegeta was just as strong as he was, and for that reason, he couldn't take Buu. But we know that that, is in fact, bullshit.

[dva_raza]

He gave his reasons not once, but twice - he wanted the boys to handle things because being a dead guy

Are you joking right now?..

Did you seriously miss the 3 times I debunked this already?

Goku did not think about the kids fusing. That was literally brought up by another person at the end of this scene with Krillin.
Like, that is not something that even occured to him until it was brought up (by either Piccolo or Mr Popo I don't recall)

In that case, then it still doesn't matter why he lied - but he did lie. He claimed that Vegeta was just as strong as he was, and for that reason, he couldn't take Buu. But we know that that, is in fact, bullshit.

Kinda getting tired of repeating myself but, no. It's only bullshit in your version.

In my version it's not bullshit. It's the truth: he wasn't considering the form for use. Explained why already.

It might not be a "perfect" fit, but it's still the best option if we want to pick the one that makes for a smoother cohesion of every event in the story. No matter how you slice it the scene with Krillin stands out absurdly under your narrative.

[jjgp1112]

Are you joking right now?..

Did you seriously miss the 3 times I debunked this already?

Goku did not think about the kids fusing. That was literally brought up by another person at the end of this scene with Krillin.
Like, that is not something that even occured to him until it was brought up (by either Piccolo or Mr Popo I don't recall)

In that case, then it still doesn't matter why he lied - but he did lie. He claimed that Vegeta was just as strong as he was, and for that reason, he couldn't take Buu. But we know that that, is in fact, bullshit.

Kinda getting tired of repeating myself but, no. It's only bullshit in your version.

In my version it's not bullshit. It's the truth: he wasn't considering the form for use. Explained why already.

It might not be a "perfect" fit, but it's still the best option if we want to pick the one that makes for a smoother cohesion of every event in the story. No matter how you slice it the scene with Krillin stands out absurdly under your narrative.

He allegedly considered it for an emergency. And Buu being unleashed and his son and rival being dead is sure as fuck an emergency.

There is no version of this scenario where Goku doesn't look like an idiot by even the most charitable interpretations.

If a guy says he has no chance when he knows he has a nuclear option that can save the day (and then chose not to finish the job when he DID use it!)...that's a lie, dawg.

[dva_raza]

In that case, then it still doesn't matter why he lied - but he did lie. He claimed that Vegeta was just as strong as he was, and for that reason, he couldn't take Buu. But we know that that, is in fact, bullshit.

Kinda getting tired of repeating myself but, no. It's only bullshit in your version.

In my version it's not bullshit. It's the truth: he wasn't considering the form for use. Explained why already.

It might not be a "perfect" fit, but it's still the best option if we want to pick the one that makes for a smoother cohesion of every event in the story. No matter how you slice it the scene with Krillin stands out absurdly under your narrative.

He allegedly considered it for an emergency. And Buu being unleashed and his son and rival being dead is sure as fuck an emergency.

There is no version of this scenario where Goku doesn't look like an idiot by even the most charitable interpretations.

If a guy says he has no chance when he knows he has a nuclear option that can save the day (and then chose not to finish the job when he DID use it!)...that's a lie, dawg.

But that's the discrepancy that I keep explaining.
Making a bad decision cause you were mentally blocked or insecure about something isn't the same as lying about it.

I'm saying that he could have honestly not been considering the form for use at that moment and simply changed his mind after actually getting a sense of it!

I mean, look at him at 2:03

https://youtu.be/DnnjnfRh1OE

Is THAT how he was beating Vegeta? I don't think so.
Vegeta would have attacked and Goku loses the transformation. The end.

(and then chose not to finish the job when he DID use it!)...

Agree that this was arguably dumb, I mean I'm personally not a fan of this but it does make sense because in this scene the idea of the kids transforming exists already, it didn't before.
And I do understand the reasoning of wanting to let things in the hands of other people considering he's not gonna be around later. It's one of those things that look bad in the immediacy but it's responsible for the bigger picture.

But, this has no relevance though.
The topic has basically evolved into something else than what it was. If you wanna discuss every action by every character after Buu's awakened that could go on indefinitely.

The reason we've been talking specifically about "Buu's release" is simply because that was a point stated in the original post and it was challenged by Koitsukai when he said "Goku is the one who screwed that up", literal quote.

My point is, the question of how Goku (or anybody else) handled the whole situation throughout the rest of the arc, has literally zero affection to the point at which Vegeta chose to get possessed on purpose. So why are we talking about Goku?

[nhienphan2808]

Goku means well so i wouldnt fault him too much. I would blame someone who KNOWS fully the consequences of his actions, who is a planner but throw it away for short lived fun and ego like Vegeta. Goku is simply a bad planner and a bad problem solver, worse than he thinks that is, and he is not above lying to make himself look better when bad things happens on top of his bad plans. And consistent with his traits in the Cell Saga, he would be as confident as Vegeta about fighting Buu, then rethink it and learn from Vegeta after Vegeta fought first and lost. I think he was fairly consistent with his not using SSJ3, since it's draining and maybe he wasnt confident with it.
After that he panel when he told Vegeta that "I could have defeated Buu but i wanted to leave it to the kids" was a Bluff turned to a miscommunication joke between them when they were being typical Saiyan kids.
This is the dialouge:
Goku : "I could have defeated Buu but i wanted to leave it to the kids, give them something to do."
*Vegeta flies a way in next panel*
Goku, thinking : "Argh, he's not listening!"

and then:
Goku : Sucks, i was too busy showing off!
Vegeta : What ? You were not holding back for me?

Both times he lied, first to placate Vegeta, and then as a showing off "hey look i'm a hero" joke, Vegeta called him out, so it's at least acknowledged in text that he was bluffing and being a little shit who's bad at planning but still trying. He's not completely blameless because when it started, he was as confident as Vegeta about fighting the enemy. It was just luck that Vegeta happens to fight first and served as a lesson for him and made him look better. The difference is he means well and Vegeta didn't.

As for Vegeta, he was an asshole and more responsible. But because he was ultimately a better planner than Goku who was still fixated on the kids fighting when they had proved they are unfit for it, the arc simply needed him to wrap it up. And it was fitting that he suggested doing the Genki Dama and being the sacrifice for it, because he WAS responsible for Buu being out, and the Earth people too for creating a truely evil Buu.

It's not hiding SSJ3, it's "leaving it to the kids" is the worse lie from Goku in this arc, because 1. faking a hero who could afford to leave legacy. 2. the kids are NOT responsible for his bad plans, 3. showed his idiot personality more, because they HAD showed they couldnt fight.

[MrGohanks]

1. using it limits his one day stay in the living world.

2. As a resident of the afterlife, he should be trying his best not to interfer at all in the matter of the living. He was supposed to only pop in to have engage in a fighting tourney, mostly to just mess around with his friends. Granted this Goku we're talking about, and he did kinda get recruited by Supreme Kai.

Those are bad excuses. Protecting the Earth is more important than staying in it for a day, and if Goku isn't supposed to interfere with the world of the living then he would have never even came to Earth for a day in the first place, let alone fight Majin Vegeta at all.

Non-interfernce is really big on those in the afterlife/otherworld. No one was interfering with Freeza as he went around doing as he liked. King Kai only interferred with anything was because he was chummy with Goju and his dead friends. The only reason Supreme Kai interfered was because Buu is a Kai killer. He would have left a Buu-less Babidi run rampart. In fact, that what they did.

This is the same dude who asked to spare Vegeta's life, when

1. It took the combined efforts of four dudes to bring him down.

2. Everyone knew this dude would probably return for revenge. If Vegeta didn't have to deal with Freeza on Namek, he would have slaughtered all the Namekians, potentially used the DBalls and came back to blow up Earth.

You wanna know the real reason yall cain't find a suitable reason for all of this:

It's a comic/cartoon from the early 90s that the writers made a bunch of stuff up as they went along. He probably spent less time on that stuff than I took to type all this out. sometimes hat's the best answer you'll ever het.

All Kais weaker than the Grand Kai were weaker than Freeza, that's why they did nothing involving him.

Goku is not a Kai, the "don't interfere with the living" rule (if it even exists) doesn't apply to him, because if it did he wouldn't even be allowed to return to the living world for day at all.

[MrGohanks]

Goku means well so i wouldnt fault him too much. I would blame someone who KNOWS fully the consequences of his actions, who is a planner but throw it away for short lived fun and ego like Vegeta. Goku is simply a bad planner and a bad problem solver, worse than he thinks that is, and he is not above lying to make himself look better when bad things happens on top of his bad plans. And consistent with his traits in the Cell Saga, he would be as confident as Vegeta about fighting Buu, then rethink it and learn from Vegeta after Vegeta fought first and lost. I think he was fairly consistent with his not using SSJ3, since it's draining and maybe he wasnt confident with it.
After that he panel when he told Vegeta that "I could have defeated Buu but i wanted to leave it to the kids" was a Bluff turned to a miscommunication joke between them when they were being typical Saiyan kids.
This is the dialouge:
Goku : "I could have defeated Buu but i wanted to leave it to the kids, give them something to do."
*Vegeta flies a way in next panel*
Goku, thinking : "Argh, he's not listening!"

and then:
Goku : Sucks, i was too busy showing off!
Vegeta : What ? You were not holding back for me?

Both times he lied, first to placate Vegeta, and then as a showing off "hey look i'm a hero" joke, Vegeta called him out, so it's at least acknowledged in text that he was bluffing and being a little shit who's bad at planning but still trying. He's not completely blameless because when it started, he was as confident as Vegeta about fighting the enemy. It was just luck that Vegeta happens to fight first and served as a lesson for him and made him look better. The difference is he means well and Vegeta didn't.

As for Vegeta, he was an asshole and more responsible. But because he was ultimately a better planner than Goku who was still fixated on the kids fighting when they had proved they are unfit for it, the arc simply needed him to wrap it up. And it was fitting that he suggested doing the Genki Dama and being the sacrifice for it, because he WAS responsible for Buu being out, and the Earth people too for creating a truely evil Buu.

It's not hiding SSJ3, it's "leaving it to the kids" is the worse lie from Goku in this arc, because 1. faking a hero who could afford to leave legacy. 2. the kids are NOT responsible for his bad plans, 3. showed his idiot personality more, because they HAD showed they couldnt fight.

This is also completely false, and its clear that you know nothing about Goku's character at all lol.

First of all, Goku throughout the OG manga/Z has been shown to be a better planner and problem solver than pretty much everyone else besides Bulma. And no, Goku (before Super) was never overconfident and he is always accurate when judging the power of himself and his enemies, like when comparing his new SSJ power to 100% Freeza and when comparing his own power to Gohan's hidden power and that of Perfect Cell (his plan for the Cell Games was a success). When SSJ3 Goku fought Fat Buu he was shown to be putting basically little effort into the fight yet he still had the massive edge over Fat Buu, proving that Goku could have easily killed Fat Buu if he wanted before he admitted this when facing Kid Buu, and he could have even killed Kid Buu (who's stronger than Fat Buu) with SSJ3 if he could tap into his full power. He wasn't lying nor was he telling a joke (Goku doesn't lie or joke about this stuff, its out of character), that's just you trying to make excuses for Goku's actions despite what the story says.

Goku is consistently shown throughout the OG Manga/Z to know exactly what's he's doing when making a decision and he doesn't always means well at all. Goku knew exactly what was at stake if he fought Majin Vegeta yet he choose to fight him equally anyway. This is the same guy who let Vegeta and Piccolo live just so he could get a rematch with them, despite both of them being Earth threatening villains who shown no signs of a potential redemption yet.

And no, Goku was right when he said that Goten and Trunks fusing could easily kill Fat Buu with SSJ. The reason this plan didn't work was because the appearance of Super Buu (who no one could have anticipated coming) and because of Gotenks being an irresponsible idiot (which Goku couldn't have seen coming because Goten and Trunks seemed serious about killing Buu when Goku was teaching them the fusion dance).

[MrGohanks]

Kinda getting tired of repeating myself but, no. It's only bullshit in your version.

In my version it's not bullshit. It's the truth: he wasn't considering the form for use. Explained why already.

It might not be a "perfect" fit, but it's still the best option if we want to pick the one that makes for a smoother cohesion of every event in the story. No matter how you slice it the scene with Krillin stands out absurdly under your narrative.

He allegedly considered it for an emergency. And Buu being unleashed and his son and rival being dead is sure as fuck an emergency.

There is no version of this scenario where Goku doesn't look like an idiot by even the most charitable interpretations.

If a guy says he has no chance when he knows he has a nuclear option that can save the day (and then chose not to finish the job when he DID use it!)...that's a lie, dawg.

But that's the discrepancy that I keep explaining.
Making a bad decision cause you were mentally blocked or insecure about something isn't the same as lying about it.

I'm saying that he could have honestly not been considering the form for use at that moment and simply changed his mind after actually getting a sense of it!

I mean, look at him at 2:03

https://youtu.be/DnnjnfRh1OE

Is THAT how he was beating Vegeta? I don't think so.
Vegeta would have attacked and Goku loses the transformation. The end.

(and then chose not to finish the job when he DID use it!)...

Agree that this was arguably dumb, I mean I'm personally not a fan of this but it does make sense because in this scene the idea of the kids transforming exists already, it didn't before.
And I do understand the reasoning of wanting to let things in the hands of other people considering he's not gonna be around later. It's one of those things that look bad in the immediacy but it's responsible for the bigger picture.

But, this has no relevance though.
The topic has basically evolved into something else than what it was. If you wanna discuss every action by every character after Buu's awakened that could go on indefinitely.

The reason we've been talking specifically about "Buu's release" is simply because that was a point stated in the original post and it was challenged by Koitsukai when he said "Goku is the one who screwed that up", literal quote.

My point is, the question of how Goku (or anybody else) handled the whole situation throughout the rest of the arc, has literally zero affection to the point at which Vegeta chose to get possessed on purpose. So why are we talking about Goku?

"Vegeta could have attacked and Goku loses the transformation, the end"

That never ever happens in this franchise and you know it lol. Whenever a character transforms into a higher form weaker characters can't do anything to prevent it. Trunks couldn't prevent Cell from going Perfect as he was transforming, no one could stop Freeza in Namek from reaching his final form, etc. There's no way Majin Vegeta could have prevented Goku from turning into SSJ3 if the later decided to use it.

And Goku is never shown second guessing any of his decisions in the Buu saga. He knows exactly what needs to be done from the start yet choose otherwise for his own selfish reasons. There no way Goku could look innocent here.