Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
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Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black/future trunks arc?
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Akira Toriyama
alternatively, Toyotarou
alternatively, Toyotarou
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
I’m pretty sure the manga’s ending to the arc was a lot different in the details than the anime’s, so it definitely wasn’t Toyataro. If it was toriyama, it must have been very high level and vague considering how different the details of the two versions are, right?
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
The ending is the same in that Zeno does in fact erase the world in both versions. While the details aren't the same, Toriyama most likely just wrote something along the lines of 'Goku gets Zeno to erase the world' or something similarly vague, but that aspect of the ending was most likely Toriyama.jamiljamtheman wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:29 pm I’m pretty sure the manga’s ending to the arc was a lot different in the details than the anime’s, so it definitely wasn’t Toyataro. If it was toriyama, it must have been very high level and vague considering how different the details of the two versions are, right?
Go over time and space...
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
It's not a bad ending, the foreshadowing wasn't even subtle. The hints were all there.
Literally in the first episode, Whis warns Goku that Zeno could easily erase all of existence if he wanted to.
In episode 55, when Goku is given the Zeno Button, he is yet again warned by Beerus NOT to anger Zeno and ABSOLUTELY NOT to mention the incident with Goku Black, because if Zeno became disappointed, he could wipe out all of existence.
The thing about Zamasu as a villain is that he is written to be unbeatable. He genuinely believes that he is doing the right, he is truly convinced of being the hero of his own story, so he can't be reasoned with like Piccolo, Vegeta, and the Androids. And he is Immortal, which means that he cannot be destroyed. Why would people think that a mere genkidama would be enough to destroy someone who CANNOT DIE?
Even in DBZ, the two main villains Vegeta and Frieza both wanted Immortality. It was already made clear in DBZ that such a wish would just make the villain unbeatable. Zamasu got that wish, and so by DBZ logic he would be unbeatable. A genkidama was never going to be enough to beat him.
Thematically, I have to praise Toriyama for his decision. For once we have an arc that doesn't have a happy ending. It just doesn't, because even though Zamasu is wiped out, so is the rest of the timeline. This means that all the souls of all the mortals in the afterlife are also erased. That's why Trunks cried at the end, because he failed. It's not a happy ending, and so it is a very revolutionary ending for a series like Dragon Ball, where the Dragon Balls always save the day at the end. The Dragon Balls aren't saving shit this time, the Future timeline is gone forever.
So to be honest I'll die on this hill that this ending wasn't horrible, but was actually the best ending imaginable for such an arc. Simply having the arc end with Trunks destroying Fused Zamasu would have been the "fanservice" route, but not the "good writing" route, because then:
1) All the foreshadowing about Zeno wiping out existence wouldn't have any payoff (in the ToP he didn't wipe out existence);
2) And Zamasu being immortal in the end would also just be a waste of time. What was the point of making the villain immortal if he's just going to be defeated like every mortal villain, with a big dumb attack?
TL;DR: It was Toriyama, since it's the same in both anime and manga (the manga is even more brutal by showing the Time Ring associated with the Future timeline literally blow up) and to be honest I don't know why people say it's a "horrible" ending.
This is simply the story Toriyama wanted to tell. He wanted Trunks to be a tragic hero who doesn't get a happy ending, but a bittersweet one (he gets to see all his loved ones again, but they're not really his loved ones, just alternate counterparts in a newly-created world).
Literally in the first episode, Whis warns Goku that Zeno could easily erase all of existence if he wanted to.
In episode 55, when Goku is given the Zeno Button, he is yet again warned by Beerus NOT to anger Zeno and ABSOLUTELY NOT to mention the incident with Goku Black, because if Zeno became disappointed, he could wipe out all of existence.
The thing about Zamasu as a villain is that he is written to be unbeatable. He genuinely believes that he is doing the right, he is truly convinced of being the hero of his own story, so he can't be reasoned with like Piccolo, Vegeta, and the Androids. And he is Immortal, which means that he cannot be destroyed. Why would people think that a mere genkidama would be enough to destroy someone who CANNOT DIE?
Even in DBZ, the two main villains Vegeta and Frieza both wanted Immortality. It was already made clear in DBZ that such a wish would just make the villain unbeatable. Zamasu got that wish, and so by DBZ logic he would be unbeatable. A genkidama was never going to be enough to beat him.
Thematically, I have to praise Toriyama for his decision. For once we have an arc that doesn't have a happy ending. It just doesn't, because even though Zamasu is wiped out, so is the rest of the timeline. This means that all the souls of all the mortals in the afterlife are also erased. That's why Trunks cried at the end, because he failed. It's not a happy ending, and so it is a very revolutionary ending for a series like Dragon Ball, where the Dragon Balls always save the day at the end. The Dragon Balls aren't saving shit this time, the Future timeline is gone forever.
So to be honest I'll die on this hill that this ending wasn't horrible, but was actually the best ending imaginable for such an arc. Simply having the arc end with Trunks destroying Fused Zamasu would have been the "fanservice" route, but not the "good writing" route, because then:
1) All the foreshadowing about Zeno wiping out existence wouldn't have any payoff (in the ToP he didn't wipe out existence);
2) And Zamasu being immortal in the end would also just be a waste of time. What was the point of making the villain immortal if he's just going to be defeated like every mortal villain, with a big dumb attack?
TL;DR: It was Toriyama, since it's the same in both anime and manga (the manga is even more brutal by showing the Time Ring associated with the Future timeline literally blow up) and to be honest I don't know why people say it's a "horrible" ending.
This is simply the story Toriyama wanted to tell. He wanted Trunks to be a tragic hero who doesn't get a happy ending, but a bittersweet one (he gets to see all his loved ones again, but they're not really his loved ones, just alternate counterparts in a newly-created world).
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Toriyama, with how the manga has mitosis and the anime has the sky wallpaper
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Eh for all the issues I had with that arc the ending was fine. It was nice seeing a resolution that wasn't and then everyone gave their energy to insert character here and he defeated the bad guy in a single blow.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
I thought the ending was fun.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
The ending was fine and logical, also serving the purpose of showing how dangerous Zen-o is and how he can indeed erase the whole content of a universe quite easily whenever he feels like it, which is necessary for the following arc's sense of danger.
When it is stated that Zen-o will erase losing universes, you know it is true because you've seen first hand in the previous arc that he does so without any hesitation as soon as he has the slightest reason to do so, destroying even immortal and "infinite" entities if he wishes so.
You've seen by that point that there is not a single thing in existence that can resist him and that he is more than willing to erase whole universes without a second thought. So the threat of the TOP felt very serious.
When it is stated that Zen-o will erase losing universes, you know it is true because you've seen first hand in the previous arc that he does so without any hesitation as soon as he has the slightest reason to do so, destroying even immortal and "infinite" entities if he wishes so.
You've seen by that point that there is not a single thing in existence that can resist him and that he is more than willing to erase whole universes without a second thought. So the threat of the TOP felt very serious.
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Manga : Toyotaro/Toriyama(?)
Anime: Atsuhiro Tomioka
Anime: Atsuhiro Tomioka
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
In the end, it didn't matter too much since Trunks moved to a similar timeline. Maybe he would've had existential crisis or something in a different series but he didn't really mind moving there. If they managed to seal Zamasu and kill Goku Black, Bulma and most of what was left of humanity would've remained dead. I recall the new timeline was created after Beerus killed present Zamasu so Zamasu's actions led to one timeline being destroyed only to be replaced by another that was identical.
The lasting consequence was that we saw how dangerous Zeno could be when he's upset or annoyed and that there were now two Zenos in the present timeline. I still wonder if the gods of the other universes ever figured out how that happened. I think the only time Zamasu was mentioned in the ToP was in the manga by the U10 GoD because he was upset Beerus intervened.
The lasting consequence was that we saw how dangerous Zeno could be when he's upset or annoyed and that there were now two Zenos in the present timeline. I still wonder if the gods of the other universes ever figured out how that happened. I think the only time Zamasu was mentioned in the ToP was in the manga by the U10 GoD because he was upset Beerus intervened.
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
It's not horrible, but it was Toriyama. Just like most of the controversial things we have been getting in modern Dragon Ball.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Me too! Trunks is that kind of character where he's been kicked so much while he's down that if he is going to get in a win than the most appropriate way of doing that is to let him do a big Power of Friendship attack.
She/Her
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
That was fine too, but I meant moreso the absolute insanity that followed.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Whoever it was, they should be fired immediately. Future Trunks saga had everything to have an ending that could impact everything going forward, but they went and chose the safest one.
"Horrible" still doesn't come close to describe accurately that ending.
"Horrible" still doesn't come close to describe accurately that ending.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Oh yeah, I definitely thought it was an interesting idea to just destroy the universe via the Zen-Ou. Another interesting part was seeing Trunks and Mai have to go to another universe with another copy of themselves. It's probably not the best for a continuing series but for an ending-ending I think it's a great idea.Zephyr wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:19 amThat was fine too, but I meant moreso the absolute insanity that followed.
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
Erasing Trunks' timeline from existence is a safe ending ?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
I take that by "ending" is what happens after that, which is Trunks going to live with himself. And which still is the most crap ending for a saga and for a character I've seen. I don't have any problems with what happens before that.
But then again, coming to think a bit more, it is a bit safe, yeah:
But then again, coming to think a bit more, it is a bit safe, yeah:
Someone wrote:Hey Trunks, your world is no more, what'chu gonna do? Live here in the present? Gonna pay for your crimes of time traveling? Oh, there's another timeline that Beerus created, wanna go and live there?
There's nothing to worry about since there's another timeline, right? Even Trunks and Mai had no problem substituting their dead ones for the alive ones from this other timeline.Trunks wrote:Hm, I'll take the latter, bye.
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Re: Does anyone know who wrote the horrible ending in the goku black arc?
I think the best solution to this ending is use the namek dragon balls of the new timeline and have the trunks and Mai of that timeline become one with the destroyed timeline trunks and Mai.