Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Luso Saiyan]

When all some people have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Mr_CINDER]

You don't need to make up shit when you can just read the actual criticism of the actual woman calling this content bad and saying that there is zero excuses for this behavior no matter the year.

I mean this is nothing compared to what goes on in berserk's every chapter, this seems like a simple flirting to me.

[Shaddy]

I mean this is nothing compared to what goes on in berserk's every chapter, this seems like a simple flirting to me.

That's kind of a non-sequitur; I'm not sure Beerus's line quite constitutes "harassment" so much as just being rude and gross, but if you're going to compare Berserk and Dragon Ball, you have to look at the ways they treat their women outside of how intense their sexual assault is represented.

Dragon Ball tends to be crass, childish, and viewing women from a very simplistic and one-sided perspective; I have to think Toriyama has not, at any point, asked a woman how they would want women to be written. That's not to say you can't like them, and I'm certainly not calling anyone who enjoys 'X thing' some evil misogynist, but the series simply does not handle its female cast with much care or respect.

Berserk, on the other hand, is much, much more explicit and disturbing in its portrayal of sexual violence. It's a formative part of both Casca and Guts's trauma even before the Eclipse, and the events of the eclipse becomes a driving moment for Guts to improve as a person. Casca is also extremely well-characterized, with her own flaws, goals, ideals and conflicts. While I don't think they're as strong as characters, this is also true for Farnese and Shierke later in the story. It's just worlds away from Dragon Ball, which has slightly shallow female characters and the sexual assault is just a joke.

That's not to say Berserk is immune to criticism; I do think that the depiction and framing (the visuals themselves, I mean) of sexual violence towards women in the series leans towards the voyeuristic in a way it didn't for Guts, and sadly the eclipse itself turns Casca from someone with strong characterization to a plot device to push Guts's character along, without a lot of her feelings really coming through (I understand this is kind of the point, but there are ways to examine her personality even if she is not in a state to express it herself), and by the point that we have random trolls and cursed horses that just try to rape people, it kind of dilutes what tact it had left. The most you can say is "at least they don't make it a joke".

But overall, I think in terms of how the characters are constructed and how the story utilizes them, Berserk's treatment of women is still overall preferable to what Dragon Ball does, at least in my opinion.

That said, this is still a really poor comparison to make. You're looking at someone saying "This thing in a children's cartoon is bad", and saying "Pff. You think THAT'S bad? What about the manga with RAPE in it?". It's missing the forest for the trees, except you drove all the way to the beach instead.

[DestructoDisc]

So now Gohan isn't only a slacker who makes the same mistake all the time and goes through the same story for years now, he's also a bad father, who thinks reading books about insects is more important then picking up his 3 YEARS OLD daughter from kindergarten. His wife literally begs GOD to look after her kid because she knows her husband is a lost cause. I don't give a crap if he will change by the end of movie, of course he will change, it's predictable as hell, but the fact that it happened in general is what angers me. For all this time Gohan was known to be a great father and husband, but nope we gotta ruin that too about his character. Now the only good father and husband out of all the Z fighters is Krillin. Way to go Gohan.

[omaro34]

Cute little scene from the movie: https://youtu.be/48qpf4H8ZO4

[OrangeBanana]

Went on a couple week black out on this film, suddenly my urge got the better of me and now I come back to this. Man, this movie's entire:

Spoiler:

Cell being back but different schtick.

This definitely feels like Toriyama or whoever is scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point for villain ideas. Also the entire thing about Gohan not training and then ignoring his family, lol wtf is this writing, it seems like Dragon Ball Super sometimes has a real hard on for making characters regress then progress. The animation does look good though and it appears to be a very colourful movie which I appreciate, also I like the focus on Piccolo and Gohan rather than Goku and Vegeta, its pretty refreshing.

[sigmasigma]

Cute little scene from the movie: https://youtu.be/48qpf4H8ZO4

Videl finally appears

[Geraldo]

So now Gohan isn't only a slacker who makes the same mistake all the time and goes through the same story for years now, he's also a bad father, who thinks reading books about insects is more important then picking up his 3 YEARS OLD daughter from kindergarten. His wife literally begs GOD to look after her kid because she knows her husband is a lost cause. I don't give a crap if he will change by the end of movie, of course he will change, it's predictable as hell, but the fact that it happened in general is what angers me. For all this time Gohan was known to be a great father and husband, but nope we gotta ruin that too about his character. Now the only good father and husband out of all the Z fighters is Krillin. Way to go Gohan.

Lol you make it sound as if he's a real person and not a fictional character. Toriyama who's a bad storyteller is the only one to blame.

[omaro34]

Cute little scene from the movie: https://youtu.be/48qpf4H8ZO4

Videl finally appears

I absolutely love how Piccolo’s throne chair at his house is very Daimao esque. Nice little detail from OG Dragonball.

[SSJgogeto]

Cute little scene from the movie: https://youtu.be/48qpf4H8ZO4

I saw at least two good references: Piccolo's chair looks more or less like King Piccolo's chair, and Gohan have this photo in his table:

[sigmasigma]

Cute little scene from the movie: https://youtu.be/48qpf4H8ZO4

Videl finally appears

I absolutely love how Piccolo’s throne chair at his house is very Daimao esque. Nice little detail from OG Dragonball.

Grand Elder Guru also has a similar chair

[Mr_CINDER]

I mean this is nothing compared to what goes on in berserk's every chapter, this seems like a simple flirting to me.

That's kind of a non-sequitur; I'm not sure Beerus's line quite constitutes "harassment" so much as just being rude and gross, but if you're going to compare Berserk and Dragon Ball, you have to look at the ways they treat their women outside of how intense their sexual assault is represented.

Dragon Ball tends to be crass, childish, and viewing women from a very simplistic and one-sided perspective; I have to think Toriyama has not, at any point, asked a woman how they would want women to be written. That's not to say you can't like them, and I'm certainly not calling anyone who enjoys 'X thing' some evil misogynist, but the series simply does not handle its female cast with much care or respect.

Berserk, on the other hand, is much, much more explicit and disturbing in its portrayal of sexual violence. It's a formative part of both Casca and Guts's trauma even before the Eclipse, and the events of the eclipse becomes a driving moment for Guts to improve as a person. Casca is also extremely well-characterized, with her own flaws, goals, ideals and conflicts. While I don't think they're as strong as characters, this is also true for Farnese and Shierke later in the story. It's just worlds away from Dragon Ball, which has slightly shallow female characters and the sexual assault is just a joke.

That's not to say Berserk is immune to criticism; I do think that the depiction and framing (the visuals themselves, I mean) of sexual violence towards women in the series leans towards the voyeuristic in a way it didn't for Guts, and sadly the eclipse itself turns Casca from someone with strong characterization to a plot device to push Guts's character along, without a lot of her feelings really coming through (I understand this is kind of the point, but there are ways to examine her personality even if she is not in a state to express it herself), and by the point that we have random trolls and cursed horses that just try to rape people, it kind of dilutes what tact it had left. The most you can say is "at least they don't make it a joke".

But overall, I think in terms of how the characters are constructed and how the story utilizes them, Berserk's treatment of women is still overall preferable to what Dragon Ball does, at least in my opinion.

That said, this is still a really poor comparison to make. You're looking at someone saying "This thing in a children's cartoon is bad", and saying "Pff. You think THAT'S bad? What about the manga with RAPE in it?". It's missing the forest for the trees, except you drove all the way to the beach instead.

yeah thats a bit rough comparison and the part you mentioned about toriyama not concerning any woman for example kishimoto concerned his wife during the writing the kushina arc that was all his wife and naruto the last movie also.It seems every shonen mangaka face problems when writing female characters.

[Dragmobot12]

Spoiler:

I believe that Toriyama doesn't want to bring Cell back at all, like, that character is over for real and this movie is basically him saying, guys, I'm sorry, this is the best I can do.

[Extreme_kai]

Spoiler:

I believe that Toriyama doesn't want to bring Cell back at all, like, that character is over for real and this movie is basically him saying, guys, I'm sorry, this is the best I can do.

You're probably right. Like why bring back the least popular version (I know it's Toriyama's favorite) and make it a kaiju? Cell fans don't win, and people that want a new villain don't win. Just a huge "F You" to everyone. lol

[Dragmobot12]

Spoiler:

I believe that Toriyama doesn't want to bring Cell back at all, like, that character is over for real and this movie is basically him saying, guys, I'm sorry, this is the best I can do.

You're probably right. Like why bring back the least popular version (I know it's Toriyama's favorite) and make it a kaiju? Cell fans don't win, and people that want a new villain don't win. Just a huge "F You" to everyone. lol

I honestly think that Moro replaces Cell really well, I just hope they bring Moro back instead sometime in the future.

[Jord]

Let's hop he bring Buu back next. And yes, I know about Uub but knowing current DBS writing I know that they could bring evil buu back next.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Japanese fans are more important then the rest of the world, they were the ones who made Toriyama the richest man in Japan because of Dr Slump, so for the people that says "he owes us", no he do not, because you wouldn't know who he was if it wasn't for Dragon Ball. Toriyama only needs to care about the japanese fans.

Idk Toei has been making more money overseas in tems of animation (not merch or domestic merch sales) more than at home so i do think some concessions should be made to appeal to the western fanbase since . I mean wtf was the Macys Parade float for if not appealing to western audiences?

[batistabus]

Animation looks a little jittery but I think it looks great overall. I wonder if the pacing is really that fast or it was cut faster for the preview. It seems it was cut somewhat, but if that reflects the actual pacing, I'm into it.

[Yuji]

So now Gohan isn't only a slacker who makes the same mistake all the time and goes through the same story for years now, he's also a bad father, who thinks reading books about insects is more important then picking up his 3 YEARS OLD daughter from kindergarten. His wife literally begs GOD to look after her kid because she knows her husband is a lost cause. I don't give a crap if he will change by the end of movie, of course he will change, it's predictable as hell, but the fact that it happened in general is what angers me. For all this time Gohan was known to be a great father and husband, but nope we gotta ruin that too about his character. Now the only good father and husband out of all the Z fighters is Krillin. Way to go Gohan.

No character in the series is a bad father outside of pre-Boo arc Vegeta. Fathers aren't flawless and they have jobs.

[Dragmobot12]

It's just funny to me that the way the third act of this movie is described is somewhat reminiscent of last year's movie The Suicide Squad. It can be exciting as well as funny at the same time.