Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Xeno Goku Black]

So everyone what's your ranking for these characters

Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Golden Frieza
Top
Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17
Gamma 1
Gamma 2

[ZombieVito]

So everyone what's your ranking for these characters

Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Golden Frieza
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1 | Gamma 2
Ultimate Piccolo
Toppo
Wrathful Broly
Android 17

[HeroR]

Or rather, you know, Future 17 and 18 killed them all years before they could be a thing.

Or that the future world doesn't have the resources to build the Gammas and Cell Max.

Tbf, they had the resources to make a time machine, something that Present Bulma can't do to the point that she couldn't recreate it despite having a broken version of it.

[SupremeKai25]

Earth is a poor, backwater planet regardless of the timeline, and in the Present timeline, Earth was recently invaded by Moro and his forces. I don't think resources are a problem.

As mentioned above, Future Bulma was able to create a complex time machine and even that weird blue time fuel, despite the Androids and Black blowing everything up. If a single scientist can achieve so much, certainly the RRA could still create their new androids, despite the time of crisis.

Yet the new androids are nowhere to be seen in the FT arc btw. The Gammas and Cell Max are nowhere to be seen in the Future Trunks arc, very curious and intriguing, I wonder what the implications are.

So I was just thinking, in the Future Trunks arc, there was no sign of Hedo, the Gammas, or Cell Max anywhere. Indeed, there was no sign of the Red Ribbon at all and it was just a bunch of survivors hiding in a ruined subway.

This implies that (Base btw) Black and Zamasu got rid of them. Which would obviously and also imply that Black and Zamasu had the strength to destroy these Red Ribbon forces introduced in this movie.

Or rather, you know, Future 17 and 18 killed them all years before they could be a thing.

Why would they kill other members of the RRA, the organization they are part of? They only killed Gero because he had the device to shut them down, not because they hate the RRA or anything.

[HeroR]

Earth is a poor, backwater planet regardless of the timeline, and in the Present timeline, Earth was recently invaded by Moro and his forces. I don't think resources are a problem.

As mentioned above, Future Bulma was able to create a complex time machine and even that weird blue time fuel, despite the Androids and Black blowing everything up. If a single scientist can achieve so much, certainly the RRA could still create their new androids.

Who are nowhere to be seen in the FT arc btw. The Gammas and Cell Max are nowhere to be seen in the Future Trunks arc, very curious and intriguing, I wonder what the implications mean.

So I was just thinking, in the Future Trunks arc, there was no sign of Hedo, the Gammas, or Cell Max anywhere. Indeed, there was no sign of the Red Ribbon at all and it was just a bunch of survivors hiding in a ruined subway.

This implies that (Base btw) Black and Zamasu got rid of them. Which would obviously and also imply that Black and Zamasu had the strength to destroy these Red Ribbon forces introduced in this movie.

Or rather, you know, Future 17 and 18 killed them all years before they could be a thing.

Why would they kill other members of the RRA, the organization they are part of? They only killed Gero because he had the device to shut them down, not because they hate the RRA or anything.

"Earth is a poor, backwater planet regardless of the timeline, and in the Present timeline, Earth was recently invaded by Moro and his forces. I don't think resources are a problem."

Yes and no since we haven't seen anything in U7 that rivals what Gero did outside of whatever 73 is and the concept that the Androids have infinite energy shocks people from other universes. We also never seen anything like the capsules.

That and what does Moro have to do with the Future timeline?

"As mentioned above, Future Bulma was able to create a complex time machine and even that weird blue time fuel, despite the Androids and Black blowing everything up. If a single scientist can achieve so much, certainly the RRA could still create their new androids."

I mentioned that, but Present Bulma also said that her Future self seemed to have some kind of revelation and time travel is so advance that Whis was shocked that any version of Bulma was able to do it. It isn't much different than how technology seems to advance rapidly during times of war.

Also keep in mind that the Future Androids were weaker than the Present day ones. Granted, people think Trunks could have gotten it wrong because he doesn't know how strong his Androids actually are since Gohan was shocked that 17 beat him with left that half his power before he was killed, but at the same time Present 18 broke Trunks' sword just by holding her elbow up.

"Why would they kill other members of the RRA, the organization they are part of"

The Android killed everyone, they didn't care. That was made very clear in the original manga and anime.

"They only killed Gero because he had the device to shut them down, not because they hate the RRA or anything."

That's the main timeline Androids, who are not the same as the Future Androids. After all, 17 and 18 attacked an island with innocent people for no real reason.

[ZombieVito]

17 and 18 hate the RR as well. Their future versions will absolutely kill Magneta and Hedo without question. Actually Hedo was a kid when they began their killings. He's 24 in the movie.

[SupremeKai25]

Yes and no since we haven't seen anything in U7 that rivals what Gero did outside of whatever 73 is and the concept that the Androids have infinite energy shocks people from other universes. We also never seen anything like the capsules.

The planet itself is so irrelevant that it doesn't even appear in the Frieza Force radar, it's the reason why Goku was sent there as a baby.

That and what does Moro have to do with the Future timeline?

Because someone was saying that they didn't build the new androids because 17 and 18 were blowing everything up, I'm saying that the Present Earth also had its fair share of conflicts in recent history (like an invasion from an intergalactic space wizard) and yet the new androids were still built.

I mean I'm just curious, the Gammas and Cell Max are sooo strong and yet they were nowhere to be seen when Black attacked the Earth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Post BOG retcon where Base Goku is no longer insane and absorbed God.

Goku might not be totally ok up there, but I wouldn’t call him insane

How does the imaginary version of the his manga, otherwise the same as the promo manga but with retconned power levels look?

Kuririn thinks they will be fine knowing they have Buu after seeing Gohan look shitty. It's only after seeing Buu doesn't turn up things start to look especially when Gohan reveals he can't beat this Freeza even in SS1.

Ultimate Gohan >> Buu > First From Freeza > SS1 Gohan

The only interesting thing to Note is that Kuririn think Gohan might be able to beat him but Gohan is sure he can't so this presumably implies Gohans at his useable limit and Kuririn was assuming he was going to be able to power up even more, perhaps to SS2 or Ult.

What's interesting is where he and Buu would lie in relation to Freezas other forms.

If he's at the same freshly transformed he was in the manga, buuhan, otherwise Freeza at 100%.
But under the unseen hypothetical post retcon of absorbed god in base IDK.

Does Goku go ss1 or god or is Freeza is scaled down in his lower forms? The TOP seems to Support Final form Freeza being weaker and Gold being a bigger multiplier.

Where do Buu and a hypothetical Ultimate Gohan (and say SS3 Gotenks for that matter) fit here in relation to freezas forms?

Everybody was surprised to see Goku use SSJG in the tournament, so I don’t think he used it against Freeza. If we assume Goku was retconned into not being much stronger than his Boo Saga self, then he must have needed SSJ3 to fight Freeza since 1st form Freeza is SSJ2 level. Sounds like a waste of stamina though… plus it means the boost Freeza gets in his transformation has been reduced, something I don’t really have a problem with since he made those forms and can choose how much power they suppress. Anyway, Gohan and Gotenks would destroy him.

On the other hand, without any retcon or reduced boosts, Freeza from his 1st to 4th form becomes over 200x stronger. That’s probably enough to destroy Gohan and Gotenks, and maybe Vegetto too.

So I was just thinking, in the Future Trunks arc, there was no sign of Hedo, the Gammas, or Cell Max anywhere. Indeed, there was no sign of the Red Ribbon at all and it was just a bunch of survivors hiding in a ruined subway.

This implies that (Base btw) Black and Zamasu got rid of them. Which would obviously and also imply that Black and Zamasu had the strength to destroy these Red Ribbon forces introduced in this movie.

The events of Super Hero are in the year 781. This was in the time the Androids were still out there. Gohan hadn’t even died yet. Way too early to be thinking of Goku Black.

So everyone what's your ranking for these characters

Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Golden Frieza
Top
Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17
Gamma 1
Gamma 2

Golden Freeza?
SSJB Vegeta
SSJB Goku
Ikari Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1/Gamma 2
Ultimate Piccolo
Toppo
Android 17

[HeroR]

Yes and no since we haven't seen anything in U7 that rivals what Gero did outside of whatever 73 is and the concept that the Androids have infinite energy shocks people from other universes. We also never seen anything like the capsules.

The planet itself is so irrelevant that it doesn't even appear in the Frieza Force radar, it's the reason why Goku was sent there as a baby.

That and what does Moro have to do with the Future timeline?

Because someone was saying that they didn't build the new androids because 17 and 18 were blowing everything up, I'm saying that the Present Earth also had its fair share of conflicts in recent history (like an invasion from an intergalactic space wizard) and yet the new androids were still built.

I mean I'm just curious, the Gammas and Cell Max are sooo strong and yet they were nowhere to be seen when Black attacked the Earth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

“The planet itself is so irrelevant that it doesn't even appear in the Frieza Force radar, it's the reason why Goku was sent there as a baby.”

Them underestimating Earth was why they missed the Dragon Balls and they made a series of Androids who makes Frieza, the strongest being in the universe, their bitch. That along with infinity energy that no one in U7 has.

[ZombieVito]

I mean I'm just curious, the Gammas and Cell Max are sooo strong and yet they were nowhere to be seen when Black attacked the Earth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Because they never existed.

[ankokudaishogun]

Moro did NOT impact the global infrastructure.

While 17 and 18 kept causing large scale damages for years

[Shorty GZ2]

I mean I'm just curious, the Gammas and Cell Max are sooo strong and yet they were nowhere to be seen when Black attacked the Earth. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Because they never existed.

Yes, they were only built around 6 months prior to the main plot of Super Hero in Age 783 (or 782, idk)

[Xeno Goku Black]

I'd say something like

Super Saiyan Blue Goku / Vegeta
Golden Frieza / Top
Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1 / 2
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17

This assuming that there's no real significant difference between Goku's power between the Top and Super Hero. Those two, Golden Frieza and Top were all pretty much the same. Wrathful Broly only slightly lower.

Wrathful Broly could go beneath Ultimate Piccolo depending on just how close the Gamma's were to Goku and Vegeta.

[dragonball0900]

So everyone what's your ranking for these characters

Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Golden Frieza
Top
Wrathful Broly
Ultimate Gohan
Ultimate Piccolo
Android 17
Gamma 1
Gamma 2

This is my order for now:

Golden Frieza/SSB Goku/Vegeta
Toppo/Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1/2
Ultimate Piccolo
Wrathful Broly
Android 17

I have Golden Frieza from the Broly Movie as stronger than Broly Movie SSB Goku and Vegeta given he lasted much longer against Broly than them (although that could have more to do with his toughness), so Goku and Vegeta in Super Hero could be on par with him (though who knows how strong Frieza actually is right now).

Toppo is below SSB Goku and Vegeta since they were equal to him in the ToP, but now would obviously be stronger (although slightly assuming Goku and Vegeta didn't get that much stronger since it's not taking into account the Moro and Granolah arcs). I have Ultimate Gohan up there as well. The Gammas are just slightly below, with Ultimate Piccolo and Wrathful Broly following next. Android 17 would be the weakest.

Bear in mind though that all of them are very close to each other. The gap between 17 and Wrathful Broly is probably the largest though.

[ZombieVito]

Wrathful Broly was significantly weaker than SSB Goku since Freeza had him rather turn Super Saiyan than to continue fighting.

[Xeno Goku Black]

How does Ultimate Gohan's strength compare from the Tournament of Power to Super Hero?

[ZombieVito]

How does Ultimate Gohan's strength compare from the Tournament of Power to Super Hero?

Should be the same. He hasn't trained but hasn't gotten weaker.

[Xeno Goku Black]

How does Ultimate Gohan's strength compare from the Tournament of Power to Super Hero?

Should be the same. He hasn't trained but hasn't gotten weaker.

Well how come you have Top below him? He was more powerful during ToP.

[dragonball0900]

How does Ultimate Gohan's strength compare from the Tournament of Power to Super Hero?

I think Super Hero Ultimate Gohan should be stronger, given that he was able to fight the Gammas, who were above 17 and comparable to SSB Goku and Vegeta. And according to Toshio on Twitter, Gohan and 17 were equals in the ToP.

His base should be the same as in the ToP since he didn't train, but I believe the boost of the Ultimate form was bigger than in the ToP.

[ZombieVito]

Well how come you have Top below him? He was more powerful during ToP.

Well, he did train for 2 months in preparation for Moro. I assume he surpassed Toppo with that.