Orange transformation is not needed, Ultimate Piccolo is enough to beat him.
The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:47 pm
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1. Orange Piccolo most likely wins this. Both are far above SSB, but Orange Piccolo's feat is more impressive since attacks comparable to a SSB didn't even budge him.
2. Ultimate Piccolo is comparable to the Gammas, who are comparable to SSB Goku and Vegeta from Super Hero. Hit from the U6 arc at this point would be fodder. Piccolo should easily take this.
3. SSJR Future Trunks is still weaker than SSR Black, who is weaker than SSB Goku and Vegeta. As Ultimate Piccolo is not that far from the Gammas, who are comparable to SSB Goku and Vegeta, then Ultimate Piccolo should be able to defeat this same SSJR Future Trunks.
4. It's a good fight. I have Toppo probably slightly above the Gammas, but it would take Toppo a very good while to beat them mostly due to their energy reserves. Dyspo isn't strong enough for this fight. He is not fast enough either given Golden Frieza (who is equal to Toppo and the SSBs) easily trashed him. Unless of course Dyspo is able to use his Super Maximum Light Speed Mode. He would be at least faster than the Gammas that way, and the Pride Trooper duo would take advantage of that and win. If not, then the Gammas should take it.
5. Pan should win. I'm pretty sure about it.
Assuming is the strongest version of Golden Frieza, which is from the Broly Movie, then Cell Max should still be able to stomp him.
Orange Piccolo one shots him easily. RoF Golden Frieza is fodder by this point.
- ZombieVito
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5912
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Chaoz [Android arc] vs Ginyu [Ginyu arc]. No Change technique.
Goku [Freeza arc] vs Pui Pui. Goku can only use up to Kaioken times 5. No Super Saiyan.
Goku [Tarble arc] vs Yakon. No eating energy, Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations.
Roshi [RoF arc] vs Vegeta [Saiyan arc]. No Mafuba.
Jaco [RoF arc] vs Nappa.
Krillin [ToP arc] vs Kibito.
Goku [Freeza arc] vs Pui Pui. Goku can only use up to Kaioken times 5. No Super Saiyan.
Goku [Tarble arc] vs Yakon. No eating energy, Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations.
Roshi [RoF arc] vs Vegeta [Saiyan arc]. No Mafuba.
Jaco [RoF arc] vs Nappa.
Krillin [ToP arc] vs Kibito.
- GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Freeza holds out SSJ Broly for an hour, so it loos like he’s stronger than SSJB Goku. Still, Cell Max should be too much for him.
Everyone up to Black is cannon fodder already lol. Hit could maybe manage something though. I think Cell would beat Merged Zamasu and maybe even Jiren assuming the movie really says Cell Max is stronger than Goku. He’s not beating Broly though.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:08 pm Cell Max vs..
Tagoma (Need to start off with a canon fodder)
Golden Freeza (RoF)
Hit
Goku Black (Base)
Zamasu (No immortality)
SSjR Goku Black
Fused Zamasu (No immortality)
Jiren
DBS LSSj Broli
Moro
Granolah
Gas (Unlock Potential)
How far does he go?
I’m not sure how Moro, Granolah and Gas scale to the movie since it ignores their sagas completely. But assuming they somehow did happen, I dare to say Moro wins via magic, otherwise even his UI form is weaker and Granolah and Gas take this since I don’t think the Z Fighters on Earth ever got to see how strong UI Goku was in the Granolah Saga.
This is a close one. Probably Piccolo, he’s smart enough to figure out Agnilaza’s weak point.
Hit and Trunks should be pretty easy work for Piccolo. He could easily borrow a page from Goku’s book to avoid the former’s assassin techniques, and the latter only just might stand a chance if wielding the Genki Sword.
Toppo and Super Dyspo should be around their levels. I’d say it could go either way since both sides should have good teamwork, but the Pride Troopers probably win in the end thanks to Dyspo’s speed and Toppo’s brute force. His grip is no joke.
Baby Pan kills him accidentally.
The problem is, the movie seems to ignore the Moro Saga completely. Toriyama wrote the script right after finishing Broly’s and the movie is treated as a direct sequel to the Broly movie. I agree that Gohan would one shot if the Moro and Granolah Sagas are considered though.Champa The Destroyer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:42 pm As far as UI vs Gohan; I agree that UI is OP and gives Goku as HUGE fighting style advantage. But shouldn't the power gap between the two be insane? MUI in the Moro arc was magnitudes stronger than ToP MUI. And then the Granolah arc MUI should be quite a lot higher than Moro Arc MUI. And we have statements that Gohan may be even stronger than current Goku and Vegeta. I think that even fighting style difference wouldn't be big enough to close the power gap. I feel like one strong kamehameha or masenko would take Goku down, and since power correlates with speed, I think Final Gohan would keep up with his reflexes. Though that's just my opinion, its hard to say until new more material comes out
Ultimate Piccolo one shots.
If the humans are in the low millions, which I do believe since Gero mistook Yamcha for Goku whilst not being impressed by Base Goku after and Tien shows comparable speed to Base Goku when dodging his lasers, then I’d say Ginyu is a low enough foe for even Chaozu to surpass. And that’s not even taking telekinesis into account.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:31 am Chaoz [Android arc] vs Ginyu [Ginyu arc]. No Change technique.
Goku [Freeza arc] vs Pui Pui. Goku can only use up to Kaioken times 5. No Super Saiyan.
Goku [Tarble arc] vs Yakon. No eating energy, Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations.
Roshi [RoF arc] vs Vegeta [Saiyan arc]. No Mafuba.
Jaco [RoF arc] vs Nappa.
Krillin [ToP arc] vs Kibito.
Even SSJ Goku gets stomped here.
Yakon was probably just a small step above Base Goku, so I think by the Tarble Saga Goku has progressed enough to beat Yakon without Super Saiyan.
Roshi one shots without even going buff I don’t think he’s far behind Kuririn and Tien in RoF.
Nappa. I doubt Jaco ever reached Raditz’s level. He was just owning Freeza’s Soldiers because they were piss weak.
I actually have them at exactly the same level. I say Kuririn wins due to his techniques and being the smarter fighter overall.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Chaoz [Android arc] vs Ginyu [Ginyu arc]. No Change technique: I would say Chaozu. While he didn't participate or show up in the Android/Cell arcs he did train earnestly with Tenshinhan in the higher elevations of Earth. If he's even just a third of Tenshinhan's power that would place him in the low millions, in my opinion. It's possible he could challenge Freeza in his third form. Ginyu physically wouldn't pose any issue here barring the usage of his Body Switch technique. If that happens then Ginyu-Chaozu would win.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:31 am Chaoz [Android arc] vs Ginyu [Ginyu arc]. No Change technique.
Goku [Freeza arc] vs Pui Pui. Goku can only use up to Kaioken times 5. No Super Saiyan.
Goku [Tarble arc] vs Yakon. No eating energy, Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations.
Roshi [RoF arc] vs Vegeta [Saiyan arc]. No Mafuba.
Jaco [RoF arc] vs Nappa.
Krillin [ToP arc] vs Kibito.
Goku [Freeza arc] vs Pui Pui. Goku can only use up to Kaioken times 5. No Super Saiyan: Don't have any way to tell exactly how powerful Pui Pui is. Base Vegeta from the Buu arc was picking him apart using what was likely a restrictive amount of power. To his credit he did recover from physical strikes in a timely manner plus his opponent felt it necessary to use a signature technique in order to defeat him. I could believe Pui Pui to be 10 million in power. Goku wouldn't be able to win here short of the Spirit Bomb somehow being harnessed and then successfully delivered.
Goku [Tarble arc] vs Yakon. No eating energy, Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations: Haven't watched the OVA but we know Goku is always training and the events of this anime piece occur two years following Buu. It's likely the Saiyan has the bulk of whatever improvements he made in the three year intermission but not quite all of it. A power level of 60 million isn't unreasonable here but then my interpretation of the power growth may likely differ compared to some others. Yakon should pose no issue here.
Roshi [RoF arc] vs Vegeta [Saiyan arc]. No Mafuba: Roshi took on what was probably dozens of disposable grunts of the Freeza arc. The tyrant dismissed them as being pathetic by previous standards though Roshi still felt it necessary to use his exaggerated muscular form. His stick broke as he was fighting too so that's another aspect against him. I think Vegeta would win barring any comical upsets using the Sleepy Boy technique.
Jaco [RoF arc] vs Nappa: Probably Jaco since he didn't appear to be tired or worse for wear against the Freeza minions and he was noted for being impressive by Krillin. Nappa is powerful by conventional soldier standards but it's not a dimensions wide gap.
Krillin [ToP arc] vs Kibito: In the anime Krillin would assuredly win. The manga is another matter as we have little to determine how powerful he is. We know he came out of retirement for the Tournament of Power though he was out of shape. Since he likely didn't improve after the Cell arc I would have to say that Kibito wins here.
- Hellspawn28
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 15235
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Final Gohan vs. Transformed Moro
Final Gohan vs. Perfected Ultra Instinct Moro
Would Gohan able to defeat Moro just like Goku did?
Final Gohan vs. Perfected Ultra Instinct Moro
Would Gohan able to defeat Moro just like Goku did?
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
-
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:20 pm
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:05 amThe problem is, the movie seems to ignore the Moro Saga completely. Toriyama wrote the script right after finishing Broly’s and the movie is treated as a direct sequel to the Broly movie. I agree that Gohan would one shot if the Moro and Granolah Sagas are considered though.Champa The Destroyer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:42 pm As far as UI vs Gohan; I agree that UI is OP and gives Goku as HUGE fighting style advantage. But shouldn't the power gap between the two be insane? MUI in the Moro arc was magnitudes stronger than ToP MUI. And then the Granolah arc MUI should be quite a lot higher than Moro Arc MUI. And we have statements that Gohan may be even stronger than current Goku and Vegeta. I think that even fighting style difference wouldn't be big enough to close the power gap. I feel like one strong kamehameha or masenko would take Goku down, and since power correlates with speed, I think Final Gohan would keep up with his reflexes. Though that's just my opinion, its hard to say until new more material comes out
Ah okay, that's understandable. Honestly even if we ignore the Granolah and Moro arcs I think Gohan could win.
They say that they doubt post Broly movie Goku and Vegeta could defeat Cell Max. I think they mostly meant in their blue forms, though there is a small possibility they were taking into account UI being be activated for Goku.
But even without that, Goku and Vegeta would be equal or slightly stronger than their DBS Broly incarnations (especially since they were training with Broly), and their DBS Broly incarnations are a decent bit stronger than their ToP selves.
So Cell Max>>Blue Goku=Blue Vegeta>DBS Broly Goku and Vegeta>ToP Goku and Vegeta
And then we see Gohan take zero damage from Cell Max and then one-shot him with a special beam cannon. So Gohan is way above Cell.
I just feel like for Goku to beat Final Gohan, Gohan would have to be Full Power Jiren tier, which i don't see; I see Cell Max around Jiren tier, maybe slightly higher, and Gohan way above that.
And that's not even taking into account that the Gammas could be around SSBlue level, which would put Orange Piccolo, Cell Max, and Final Gohan way higher on the power scale imo
It would be a good fight though, I hope someday we see him face UI or UE
-
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:20 pm
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Hmm, that's really tough.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:54 pm Final Gohan vs. Transformed Moro
Final Gohan vs. Perfected Ultra Instinct Moro
Would Gohan able to defeat Moro just like Goku did?
I think Gohan would stomp Transformed Moro, but UI Moro is a different story. I think the power gap between him and Gohan is pretty close, but obviously Moro has a big skill advantage
If we're using story structure (and Gohan having a newer form than even UI or UE, which would imply him being further up on the power scale), I'd give it to Gohan 7/10. If we just use the power scaling we have now, I'd give it to Moro 6/10 i think.
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:45 am
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
What would happen if Trunks hit Final Gohan with the Spirit Sword? Like if Gohan didn't even try to avoid it and just let him. Would Gohan be damaged at all?
- Berserker1921
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:46 am
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
To be honest? I think gohan loses both rounds. Form what I saw of that form. He again, was super over confident and cocky. Moro would take advantage of this and just drain him of his energy. While gohan might be stronger then the PUI Moro and Moro, he isn’t a clever fighter. His stupidity will be his undoing.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:54 pm Final Gohan vs. Transformed Moro
Final Gohan vs. Perfected Ultra Instinct Moro
Would Gohan able to defeat Moro just like Goku did?
- Berserker1921
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:46 am
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Honestly, if Trunks, goten, and 18 can harm cell. Then any of these guys can murder him. I mean hedo have him a massive weakness as he put a kill switch or Cell’s main weak point in his skull. And from what I saw, part of it was already cracked. If any of these guys are smart enough. They can destroy him.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:08 pm Cell Max vs..
Tagoma (Need to start off with a canon fodder)
Golden Freeza (RoF)
Hit
Goku Black (Base)
Zamasu (No immortality)
SSjR Goku Black
Fused Zamasu (No immortality)
Jiren
DBS LSSj Broli
Moro
Granolah
Gas (Unlock Potential)
How far does he go?
- GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don’t doubt Gohan is much stronger than Goku, I just think he could have figured out something. Wasn’t Cell himself already weakened from Gamma 2’s attack and everyone else attacking him?Champa The Destroyer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:03 pm Ah okay, that's understandable. Honestly even if we ignore the Granolah and Moro arcs I think Gohan could win.
They say that they doubt post Broly movie Goku and Vegeta could defeat Cell Max. I think they mostly meant in their blue forms, though there is a small possibility they were taking into account UI being be activated for Goku.
But even without that, Goku and Vegeta would be equal or slightly stronger than their DBS Broly incarnations (especially since they were training with Broly), and their DBS Broly incarnations are a decent bit stronger than their ToP selves.
So Cell Max>>Blue Goku=Blue Vegeta>DBS Broly Goku and Vegeta>ToP Goku and Vegeta
And then we see Gohan take zero damage from Cell Max and then one-shot him with a special beam cannon. So Gohan is way above Cell.
I just feel like for Goku to beat Final Gohan, Gohan would have to be Full Power Jiren tier, which i don't see; I see Cell Max around Jiren tier, maybe slightly higher, and Gohan way above that.
And that's not even taking into account that the Gammas could be around SSBlue level, which would put Orange Piccolo, Cell Max, and Final Gohan way higher on the power scale imo
It would be a good fight though, I hope someday we see him face UI or UE
It was pretty weird for Goku and Vegeta to be compared to Cell Max when apparently they were already compared to the Gammas. I’m leaning towards the Gammas being compared to SSJB and Cell being compared to UI, but this might as well just be awkward wording from Toriyama.
Well I can totally see Goku bugging Gohan to fight him, and I’m also looking forward to them + Broly fighting together.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
King Cold vs. Cooler
Future Trunks vs. Cooler
Future Trunks vs. Cooler
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
New match: (inspired by this fan art)
- Mastered UI Goku, Mastered UE Vegeta, FPSSJ Broly, Final Gohan & Orange Piccolo vs. FP God of Destruction Beerus and/or Champa or Whis
- Mastered UI Goku, Mastered UE Vegeta, FPSSJ Broly, Final Gohan & Orange Piccolo vs. FP God of Destruction Beerus and/or Champa or Whis
- Hellspawn28
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 15235
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
1. King Cold loses
2. Future Trunks defeats him easily like SSj Goku did
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
If we are strictly going by Toyotaro's vision, the team would likely lose to Beerus alone, mostly definitely would lose to Whis, but would likely defeat Champa quite easily assuming that his power is inferior to Jiren. Supplementary material naturally places Jiren's power on par or above the Gods of Destruction so I'd imagine that statement encapsulates all of the Hakaishins excluding Beerus. And given that Champa admits to neglecting his training for 50 years and nothing to indicate that he's above the other Hakaishins like the case for Beerus, then it's very likely that he's on the level of Belmod. In which case, he would easily lose to the Saiyans individually because he's weaker than Jiren.
- Hellspawn28
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 15235
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Gamma 1 & 2 vs. Goku Black and Zamasu
Rules:
No fusion
No outside help
No immortality
Who wins?
Rules:
No fusion
No outside help
No immortality
Who wins?
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
- ZombieVito
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5912
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Base Vegetto [Manga Boo arc] vs Super Boo. No Potara time limit, Magic, absorptions, Kaioken or transformations.
Pui Pui vs Krillin [Boo arc].
Guldo vs Nappa. No Telekinesis.
Appule vs Tenshinhan [Saiyan arc].
Moori vs Raditz.
Ultimate Piccolo vs 17 [ToP arc].
Babidi vs SS Vegeta [Cell arc; Post 1st RoSaT]. Babidi can use all of his magic attacks with the exception of possession.
Spopovitch vs Nam.
Piccolo [Anime U6 arc] vs Dabura.
Pui Pui vs Krillin [Boo arc].
Guldo vs Nappa. No Telekinesis.
Appule vs Tenshinhan [Saiyan arc].
Moori vs Raditz.
Ultimate Piccolo vs 17 [ToP arc].
Babidi vs SS Vegeta [Cell arc; Post 1st RoSaT]. Babidi can use all of his magic attacks with the exception of possession.
Spopovitch vs Nam.
Piccolo [Anime U6 arc] vs Dabura.
- Berserker1921
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:46 am
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Black can get stronger the longer he fights or gets Zenkais. But Zamasu with no immortality is almost worthless in this conflict. I think the gamma’s win with mid difficulty.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:50 pm Gamma 1 & 2 vs. Goku Black and Zamasu
Rules:
No fusion
No outside help
No immortality
Who wins?