Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Berserker1921]

About Gohan and his potential, at 5 years old he was at 981 and could go even higher when angry. It's impressive, because, even though Broly was at rest, he had a BP of 920 when he was like what? 3 years old?

Is it stated anywhere how old Broly was when he landed on Vampa?

It’s implied that he was like 3 or 4 years old. He was on vampa for a little while before planet vegeta was destroyed. So at most he was there for a year or 2.

He had a power level of 920 at 3 or 4 years old. He also grew when he got angry.

Broly and Gohan are basically two sides of the same coin. Both have the same amount of potential. But both have different ways to use that power.

[SaiyanGod117]

Broly has far more potential than Gohan, he broke the scouter.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Is it fair to say that pre wish Granolah was probably weaker than Frieza's first form?

[Thani]

Is it fair to say that pre wish Granolah was probably weaker than Frieza's first form?

Well, Elec was of the opinion that not even Gas could defeat Freeza just yet, and that was before he "returned stronger than ever", so I believe so. The dragon team were the first ones to actually see Freeza's final/true form, after all.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Is it fair to say that pre wish Granolah was probably weaker than Frieza's first form?

Totally. The status quo of the power levels from the Namek Saga should still apply in most of the universe. I think Granolah would be lucky to be on Nappa's level.

[BWri]

Is it fair to say that pre wish Granolah was probably weaker than Frieza's first form?

Totally. The status quo of the power levels from the Namek Saga should still apply in most of the universe. I think Granolah would be lucky to be on Nappa's level.

That's where some folk think Jaco is these days. I think Granolah can likely take out all of Frieza's foot soldiers. Not sure how he'd compare to the likes of Frieza's elites like Cui on up.

[Berserker1921]

Is it fair to say that pre wish Granolah was probably weaker than Frieza's first form?

Totally. The status quo of the power levels from the Namek Saga should still apply in most of the universe. I think Granolah would be lucky to be on Nappa's level.

That's where some folk think Jaco is these days. I think Granolah can likely take out all of Frieza's foot soldiers. Not sure how he'd compare to the likes of Frieza's elites like Cui on up.

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

[Nistarkail]

Totally. The status quo of the power levels from the Namek Saga should still apply in most of the universe. I think Granolah would be lucky to be on Nappa's level.

That's where some folk think Jaco is these days. I think Granolah can likely take out all of Frieza's foot soldiers. Not sure how he'd compare to the likes of Frieza's elites like Cui on up.

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

If Granolah had been so strong, he would be chosen for the Tournament of Power. Unable to fly, use only few ki-attacks with little battle experience. I bet my money that Tien and Krillin will wipe the floor with his base battle power. Maybe his "crazy strong" PL is 250.000-300.000 being really generous.

[Berserker1921]

That's where some folk think Jaco is these days. I think Granolah can likely take out all of Frieza's foot soldiers. Not sure how he'd compare to the likes of Frieza's elites like Cui on up.

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

If Granolah had been so strong, he would be chosen for the Tournament of Power. Unable to fly, use only few ki-attacks with little battle experience. I bet my money that Tien and Krillin will wipe the floor with his base battle power. Maybe his "crazy strong" PL is 250.000-300.000 being really generous.

Yeah, but he wouldn’t be chosen, cause whis nor Kai knew about them. They didn’t know about Broly or Moro. They sure as heck wouldn’t know about granolah.

[Nistarkail]

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

If Granolah had been so strong, he would be chosen for the Tournament of Power. Unable to fly, use only few ki-attacks with little battle experience. I bet my money that Tien and Krillin will wipe the floor with his base battle power. Maybe his "crazy strong" PL is 250.000-300.000 being really generous.

Yeah, but he wouldn’t be chosen, cause whis nor Kai knew about them. They didn’t know about Broly or Moro. They sure as heck wouldn’t know about granolah.

Well, they are a shame because they don't know Zuno, but for entities that can scan every power source, I expect their abilities are really beyond standard divine! Maybe it's a plot armor or maybe they did not know these guys but I'm sure that Mr. Granolah was not so superb. Maybe Gas yes, with something between Frieza and SSJ Goku after they fought for the first time.

[Koitsukai]

There's only two ways to interpret the loose information about pre-wish Granola and Gas. Both seem perfectly valid to me.

Granny thinks his current self can take Freeza, when he founds out about his revival, he is confident he can win. Gas, of course, proved to be beyond Granny, even though 40 years earlier he was around Nappa's level or so, and said that he had grown much stronger ever since. None of them can take the resurrected Freeza.

So, either Granny is now stronger than 1st form Freeza, the emperor the universe knew about, which would mean he clocks around the million PL, and Gas probably being 2M or so if he so casually wiped the floor with him. So, lowballing, Granny is 2nd from Freeza tier, and Gas is 3rd form tier. Gas went from like 5,000 PL to over 2M... his pre-wish confidence makes sense, he grew incredibly stronger.

The other interpretation is to assume that everybody knew what happened on Namek, based on the mechanical modifications FF Freeza suffered. He was treated for like a year by many members of his empire, and it didn't seem to be something classified. There were like 100 soldiers that came along on that spaceship with him to Earth, and rumors travel fast. If Freeza's defeat and cyborgization was something that was meant to be hidden from the public eye, then why not go alone instead of with 100 men?

In this case, then Granny would have to be stronger than initial FF Freeza and Mecha Freeza, at least. There's no way to know if Freeza's crew registered the PL of the fight on Namek. The easiest thing would be to have Granola on Namek SS level, stronger than Mecha Freeza -the one his soldiers definitely knew and met. Gas would be like the androids I guess.
Current Freeza is relative to SS Caulifla, and these guys cannot touch him, so at best Granola is as powerful as Namek SS Goku and weaker than current SS Goku.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Going by the manga and Whis not knowing anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta. Bulma being surprised that the strongest in the universe isn't either Goku and Vegeta. And that Toriyama clearly sees Broly as some benchmark.

It does seem like that whole Granolah wish about being the strongest in the universe just does not even take Broly into account.

Of course he wasn't in the manga so maybe that's why but he was still referred to.

Same thing with Moro being Goku's toughest enemy so far, again they may not be taking Broly into account at all with this.

Even more so seeing as Toyotaro said Goku, Vegeta and Granolah were 1, 2 and 3 at a time when Vegeta hadn't become Ultra Ego yet.

[Berserker1921]

Going by the manga and Whis not knowing anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta. Bulma being surprised that the strongest in the universe isn't either Goku and Vegeta. And that Toriyama clearly sees Broly as some benchmark.

It does seem like that whole Granolah wish about being the strongest in the universe just does not even take Broly into account.

Of course he wasn't in the manga so maybe that's why but he was still referred to.

Same thing with Moro being Goku's toughest enemy so far, again they may not be taking Broly into account at all with this.

Even more so seeing as Toyotaro said Goku, Vegeta and Granolah were 1, 2 and 3 at a time when Vegeta hadn't become Ultra Ego yet.

I personally think this Broly retcon or boost could be explained. We know that the movie of Superhero takes place a year before the end of Z. Granolah arc is what a few months before.

Maybe Goku and vegeta picked up Broly after that arc and started training with him. And due to his immense potential, he quickly surpassed the two. But can’t control his power.

[BWri]

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

IIRC, Granolah had taken out the 7-3 units by shooting their weak spots. I know all the OG units were powered up to match the one from the Moro arc, but what does that mean exactly? None of them seemed to be using anyone's abilities so it's a mystery how strong they could be.

[Berserker1921]

I was always under the impression, at least when the arc started. That granolah (present) couldn’t harm modern frieza. Maybe in the past, gas or him couldn’t do crap to past frieza. But since have grown. I mean granolah was able to defeat a dozen or so fresh 7/3 clones. I doubt they are weaker than frieza’s lackeys. Maybe closer to Moro’s goons in base.

I think we are severely underestimating granolah and gas pre wish. They have been training for years. Doing missions and so on. I wouldn’t put it past them, that they were around maybe the z warriors human’s levels or above them, before the wish. However were nothing against Rof-Broly level frieza. They must have surpassed namek frieza at one point.

IIRC, Granolah had taken out the 7-3 units by shooting their weak spots. I know all the OG units were powered up to match the one from the Moro arc, but what does that mean exactly? None of them seemed to be using anyone's abilities so it's a mystery how strong they could be.

Still if he is able to take them out with relative ease. The androids are based the OG 7/3. And they have healing capabilities and he was able to destroy them all. remember the panda guy said, they said that 7/3 can not be destroyed. Yet, he was able to destroy them.

I mean, that’s got to mean he is stronger than average Frieza thug.

And all I am saying is gas and himself should have been around human z fighters. It had been 40 years. And as super has shown anyone can grow stronger. And aliens seemingly have a better potential than humans,

[Miracles]

Going by the manga and Whis not knowing anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta. Bulma being surprised that the strongest in the universe isn't either Goku and Vegeta. And that Toriyama clearly sees Broly as some benchmark.

It does seem like that whole Granolah wish about being the strongest in the universe just does not even take Broly into account.

Of course he wasn't in the manga so maybe that's why but he was still referred to.

Same thing with Moro being Goku's toughest enemy so far, again they may not be taking Broly into account at all with this.

Even more so seeing as Toyotaro said Goku, Vegeta and Granolah were 1, 2 and 3 at a time when Vegeta hadn't become Ultra Ego yet.

It's more than likely that the Granolah Survivor arc did in fact count Broly when Granolah became the strongest in the universe. Since "we currently have two lines of DB Super running." It's a different story from DB Super Hero. Which is "purely a sequel" to DB Super: Broly.

Iyoku [Head of DB room] also added that both events [movie/comic] are "running in parallel [side by side]." What's incredibly difficult is to say Broly was not counted when characters wished to be the strongest in the manga. Broly is in the same universe. Yet within a different story from the Super Hero movie, for now.

We need to find out who the true strongest is according to the Oracle Fish. Maybe in this gap Toyotaro could add Broly in somehow [Extremely difficult]?

[Xeno Goku Black]

There was that interview when that editor mentioned that Broly was still one of the characters that Goku had to surpass and by that point he could become Ultra Instinct freely.

That does not fit with Toyotaro's comments of who was 1, 2 and 3 or that Moro was meant to be Goku's toughest opponent yet.

It would make little sense for Broly to be weaker than Blue Evolved Vegeta when Goku thinks he's probably stronger than Beerus when even Gas ain't as strong as Beerus.

[Miracles]

According to the other "line" of DB Super; the manga, Uchida the editor's comments about Broly, has yet to be proven true in the comic.

Naturally, the second "line" of DBS; The Hero movie continues from the Broly movie. Therefore Goku and Vegeta in Blue would naturally be weaker than Broly.

We have to see if Toriyama and Toyotaro care to weave these stories together.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, for simplicity sake, Broly should've been accounted for (and at that point in time -like Geets said- he was far from the top), and SH, that happens AFTER the manga, has a Broly that has grown stronger.

So, he wasn't the strongest in the Granny arc, he is the strongest after the Granny arc. No need to rationalize the wish, or find ways for Broly to not have been taken into account, time is in our favour, so let's just roll with it. Time passed and he reached the top again.

To be fair, the franchise has a confusing order of events, SH was written in 2018, released in 2022, taking place after events that still haven't concluded.

[Thani]

Inb4 Broly is the one the Oracle Fish was predicting the entire time, leading to the current status quo of DBS Super Hero.