The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Koitsukai]

From 1 to 7 how many Cell Jrs. at the same time could these characters solo ? :

SSJ1 Cell Games Goku
SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Vegeta

If SS2 Gohan could take 7 (8 in the anime), then Goku should take 3 at best, Gohan also 3.
Buu saga Gohan: 2
Vegeta: 4

[Lionel]

From 1 to 7 how many Cell Jrs. at the same time could these characters solo ? :

SSJ1 Cell Games Goku
SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Vegeta

SSJ1 Cell Games Goku: Two, maybe three at the most. I would compare this to Recome fighting three Vegetas at once. The guy has a significant lead over his opponent but it's not to the point where he can ignore their efforts to kill him. Two additional fighters of Vegeta's calibre would make things difficult for Recoome and that's how I consider the dynamics between Cell Jr and MSSJ Goku.

SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan: Four or five. Stamina loss from consecutive battles is going to be more of a liability for Gohan than the Jrs themselves fighting.

SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Gohan: It's not just overall strength that Gohan has lost but his intuition and refinement as a fighter. You can see this in his battle with Dabura. Three Cell Jrs may be the limit for him here.

SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Vegeta: I believe Vegeta at this stage to be comparable with Gohan from the Cell Games. Five Cell Jrs may be able possible with the possibility of challenging a sixth if his endurance and tenacity can hold up.

[MrGohanks]

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

[Koitsukai]

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

1) SSR is sorta SSB, so with it he should clear BoG SSG. Their base levels shouldn't be that far from each other, Trunks should win.

2) Goku with a PL of 8,000 I think at best can beat Buuhan, maybe Vegito. U6 arc SSB Vegeta is too out of reach for him.

3) I think Piccolo would be on that realm, but how long can he sustain a form he's never used like ever? Probably can trade a couple of blows and then pass out. Even if he doesn't, once his body starts to falter, Goku will put him down. SS3's drain will be unnoticeable next to Big Green's KK.
Even if Piccolo can sustain it for longer, the technique is power at the exchange of health bar, so Goku wins.

4) I think Buccolo would have the intelligence to beat Gotenks even if he cannot do it with power alone. Techniques, calmed mind, reading your opponent, reading the room, knowing about the time limit.

5) Broly needed his Ikari form to fight god tier fighters. But I haven't seen SH, so maybe his zenkai was that big and now he can.

6) I doubt Gohan was 20x stronger than his CG self. SS3 Goku should be like 5x stronger than SS2 Kid Gohan, and Ultimate Gohan is like what? 2x SS3 Goku? that's like 10x stronger than his CG iteration.
Cell should clear, even if he doesn't have much time left.

[Lionel]

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG): Probably SSG Goku. Ikari Trunks seemed to gain an upperhand against both Goku Black and Future Zamasu though we should keep in mind that his previous SSJ2 state was apparently capable of challenging one of them after training in the past. Don't ask me how such a leap occurred.

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc): Ultra Instinct at its zenith offers an incredible boost in strength but I'm wandering if this might not be a bridge too far. On the basis of untransformed strength this iteration of Vegeta is probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of times stronger. I don't think Ultra Instinct is superior compared with blue to that extent. Goku may be able to to initially avoid Vegeta's attacks similar to Roshi but I don't see him holding out for very long.

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga): My personal estimations would see Piccolo from the Buu arc surpass SSJ2 Gohan and Super Cell with a mere x3 amplifier. If you use the SEG's projections for the multipliers and then align the projections of necessary Kaioken amplification for it then a x13 multiple should put Piccolo ahead of SSJ3 Goku. I think with x20 Piccolo is going to be the second strongest unfused Z-Warrior next to Gohan.

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo: The contribution from Piccolo is technical and intelligence based. In terms of power Piccolo unfortunately offers little. These two are virtually equal to each other. With everything the Namekian has to offer for Buu in conjunction with the Majin's own magic and strange abilities Gotenks is probably going to lose this fight. Buu may not have overwhelming power here but he should have enough and with the proper mindset and intuition I see him winning.

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza: Do you mean Ikari Broly who created his own humanoid version of the Oozaru form? If it's simply an enraged Broly then he's going to lose badly since Aniraza was proving to be a challenge for the blue Saiyans, Ultimate Gohan, Golden Freeza and #17 collectively. If the humanoid Oozaru state is available then the outcome of the fight probably shifts over to Broly's favour. Aniraza is impressive by blue standards. Broly clearly had the upper hand against Goku and Vegeta despite them cooperating with each other. Also let's not forget Golden Freeza being picked apart by the Saiyan berserker. I think I'll side with Broly after what may be a difficult fight.

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20): Easily Gohan but please keep in mind that my interpretation involves Gotenks, the superiority asserted for his base state being stronger than Fat Buu, and the implications that entails for a fighter who is stronger than Gotenks' SSJ3 form.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

From 1 to 7 how many Cell Jrs. at the same time could these characters solo ? :

SSJ1 Cell Games Goku
SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Vegeta

Power levels logic would dictate any of these guys should solo, but SSJ2 Gohan doing it was such an impressive fit that I doubt any of them could make it to the end.

Goku taking 4 of them is a good number. He can definitely take out Trunks and Vegeta at once. But twice in a row? Nah. Gohan, if willing to fight, should take one or two more than his father.

Boo Saga Gohan is taking 3 of them with serious difficulty. His fighting back then was awful, specially in the Great Saiyaman Saga. Vegeta stops at 6. I’d say he’s comparable to CG Gohan, but tougher.

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

Even pre ritual Base Goku should one shot. Trunks was already Blue level before, so SSJR is probably not even as strong as SSJ3.

Vegeta one shots. MUI is a big deal, but at such an early point in the series it wouldn’t make anybody beat SSJB levela.

Goku. Piccolo would be lucky to reach SSJ Goku level.

If Broly is allowed to use Ikari then he takes it. He was just behind SSJB level in his movie debut, and SSJB had already surpassed Anilaza by this point.

Gohan. I think SSJ Gotenks would be a better match for Cell.

[ZombieVito]

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

1) Goku because of the power boost the ritual gave is greater than the 50 times difference between SSR and SSG.
2) I'm going to say Vegeta. The difference between base Goku from the Saiyan arc and base Vegeta from the U6 arc is gigantic.
3) A 20 times increase will actually make Piccolo equal to SS3 Goku based on my numbers. Now the question is, which is more stamina draining? SS3 or Kaioken? I honestly have no idea.
4) Same thing happens as before. Gotenks fucks around and loses SS3 before finishing Boo off.
5) Aniraza still wins but Broly gives him way more of a fight than any U7 fighter did at the ToP.
6) Cell one shots.

[Goku9001]

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

MUI Goku (Saiyan saga) vs SSB Vegeta (U6 arc)

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu saga) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)

SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu saga) vs Buucollo

Enraged Base Broly (post-DBS Broly) vs Aniraza

Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) vs Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20)

SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs. SSJG Goku (BoG): Goku absolutely curbstomps. Super Saiyan Rage isn't as large of a boost as one might think. SSJ2 Trunks was trailing just behind the Blue Saiyans and then powered up to the point where he could contest SSJR Goku Black after he received 2 large power-ups, one after being pummeled by Enraged Blue Goku and the other when he was briefly overwhelmed by SSJ Rage Trunks. As significant as that is, I don't think it's nearly large enough to bridge the gap between a weaker Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 and Goku who outstripped the strongest Super Saiyan 3 Fusion possible at the time.

MUI Goku (Saiyan Saga) vs. SSJB Vegeta (U6): In the manga, the difference between Blue and MUI doesn't seem nearly as large, and Vegeta at this point is easily thousands of times more Goku is in their respective forms. In the anime, MUI is much stronger by virtue of MUI Goku easily catching Jiren's strongest attack and vastly exceeding the power of Goku's Genkidama which vastly exceeds KKx20 Blue Goku. However, Vegeta has the benefit of having the power of Super Saiyan God in Base on top of Blue and that easily outstrips the difference between Blue and MUI. Vegeta wins both scenarios.

Kaioken x20 Piccolo (Buu) vs. SSJ3 Goku (Buu): Piccolo is weaker than the Base Saiyans so he loses.

Enraged Base Broly (Post-Broly) vs. Anilaza: Considering how stupid strong Blue Goku and Vegeta got in the ToP, I think Broly wins this.

Ultimate Gohan (Buu) vs. Super Perfect Cell (Kaioken x20): Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > Base Gotenks (Post) > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) ~ SSJ3 Goku. Gohan likely takes this.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kuririn vs Tenshinhan and Yamcha

Round 1: Cell Saga era
Round 2: Boo Saga era

No Kikoho or Kienzan allowed.

[Lionel]

Kuririn vs Tenshinhan and Yamcha

Round 1: Cell Saga era
Round 2: Boo Saga era

No Kikoho or Kienzan allowed.

Round 1: Cell Saga era: I don't have Krillin too far ahead of Tenshinhan as it is. Alone he could put up a difficult fight but with Yamcha available who I believe would offer good back up the pair should win.

Round 2: Boo Saga era: This is where I'm left scratching my head. Krillin had stopped practising martial arts, presumably around the time he married #18 four years prior. Tenshinhan never stopped training. How his superiority to Tenshinhan is supposed to be reconciled with what we've seen happen to the likes of Gohan after neglecting his training for roughly the same amount of time is difficult. The most logical rationalisation would be if Krillin had spent his dating years and perhaps the lead up to the tournament sparring with #18. A genetically modified cyborg with strength comparable to a Super Saiyan from the Android arc would yield greater results than continuous training up in the mountains probably.

Here I suppose Krillin would win but it's much more dubious in its plausibility. Yamcha had also stopped training and would be less effective as back up here for Tenshinhan. We don't know how the three eyed martial artist compares with Krillin or even where Krillin stands exactly aside from his inferiority to the Saiyans.

[ZombieVito]

Kuririn vs Tenshinhan and Yamcha

Round 1: Cell Saga era
Round 2: Boo Saga era

No Kikoho or Kienzan allowed.

Krillin one shots them both, both times.

[Koitsukai]

Kuririn vs Tenshinhan and Yamcha

Round 1: Cell Saga era
Round 2: Boo Saga era

No Kikoho or Kienzan allowed.

1) Seeing how he was the senzu master while Tenshinhan was more on the battlefront, I don't see Krilin taking out Tenshinhan and Yamcha at the same time. Krilin just panicked while Ten was fighting the androids.
Toriyama saying Krilin was the strongest seems counterintuitive, but whatever. Even if Krilin's potential unlock kept placing him ahead of the rest, I don't think he can take both of them, at their peak, at the same time.


2) Like Lionel said, the only explanation for Krilin, who dropped the practice of martial arts, to remain on top is for him to sparr with 18 and get more out of it than Tenshinhan from training with Chaozu, which does make sense. I think he'll have an easier time, considering Yamcha also put fighting behind, but has no android to sparr with. It'd be Krilin vs Ten, and according to Tori, Krilin is the strongest.

[GatoF]

1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.

[ZombieVito]

1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.

1) Even Shin finger flicks.
2) Freeza finger flicks. He's SS tier in his Final form while Slim Boo is just base tier.
3) Gohan is way stronger than Ginyu but the team might pull a win if they stick together and fight skillfully.

[MrGohanks]

If Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become and who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?

[Lionel]

1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.

1. Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks: On the basis of raw power I think Gotenks would have this fight. However if we take Kibitokai's magical abilities into account then the outcome should be in the fused Shinjin's favour; provided this is before the Saiyan children trained in the ROSAT. If this is afterwards then they easily win.

2. Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP): The new and improved Buu seemed to hold an advantage against base Goku during their practice match. We should note that Goku wasn't helpless against the Majin and it seemed to be thanks to Buu's techniques and unusual anatomy that he won that fight through an out of bounds elimination. Here against Freeza such a luxury isn't available for either side. Freeza in his final form is comparable to base Goku too; the crucial difference being that Freeza never unleashed all of his strength at 100% except for that brief moment in the anime when demonstrating the condition to Frost. If he uses that then Buu loses unless he's able to turn Freeza into a helpless candy or somehow outlasts him in a war of attrition.

3. Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change): We don't have any way to tell just how strong Gohan was at this time except for Vegeta's expressed confidence in the child's strength proving to be potentially game changing against Freeza. According to the V-Jump Gohan's power reached an estimated 200,000 but presumably that's after he received a zenkai from being on the verge of death courtesy of Freeza's crushing him.

Let's base this on straightforward speculation and argue that Gohan's power was 100,000 before doubling thanks to the aforementioned zenkai. You have the most advantageous power positioning for Gohan to muster up a close fight here. The other Ginyus are only to be able to offer back up to the captain who should boast a credible advantage here. Thanks to experience and the advantage of coordinating with his team I think the Ginyus would eventually win. Gohan needs to be pushed to the brink of snapping if he wants to win this.

If Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become and who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?

Stronger than Freeza no doubts thanks to the combination of top quality genetics and having a credible mentor to train under. Who knows? At a minimum I could see this new and improved Cell defeating Goku Black and the Saiyans at their strongest in the Future Trunks arc. On the opposite end of the spectrum he may be able to threaten Ultra Instinct Omen Goku and Jiren's suppressed strength from the TOP. Those are my personal projections for Cell.

[Koitsukai]

Who’s the strongest character Pre-ToP Piccolo (the one that trained Gohan) could beat from Z and GT?
Can he beat Super Buu? Buutenks? Dabura?
What about after making Gohan grow much stronger, who can ToP Piccolo beat from Z and GT?

1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.

1) Base Gotenks should be somewhat stronger than SS Trunks. Shin might be stronger than that on his own, but definitely if fused with Kibito.

2) Freeza was shown to be on SS level, while Buu was base level.

3) Gohan should be comfortably above the 200k. A rage boost let him put down - momentarily- 2nd form Freeza. Who knows how much is a rage boost, but it shouldn't be much more than 3x o 5x... putting Gohan on the 200k or 300k. In any case, if he gets overwhelmed, his rage boost clears the stage for him. Krilin won't have a chance to shine.

If Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become and who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?

He probably, with a new form, reaches high SSB level. He was like 50x stronger than Freeza, so if it's linear, he'd be on SS2 Kefla's realm, SSBE Vegeta at most.

[MrGohanks]

Who’s the strongest character Pre-ToP Piccolo (the one that trained Gohan) could beat from Z and GT?
Can he beat Super Buu? Buutenks? Dabura?
What about after making Gohan grow much stronger, who can ToP Piccolo beat from Z and GT?

I would put that Piccolo on Buutenks' level based on his fight against a reawakened Ultimate Gohan

[MrGohanks]

SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.

[GatoF]

If Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become and who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?

Since he has Freeza and Saiyan Cells he could attain the Gold transformation or God Ki and that would put him above Freeza.