"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Trouser]

I'm surprised we haven't gotten a Goku Black and Baby fusion by now

Fusion of these two cowardly thieves would be amazing!

edit:
I wish we'd see some GinyuGoku variant where Ginyu learned how to go Super Saiyan and beyond. Would love to see Vegeta Black and Goku Baby too.

[Xeno Goku Black]

So are there limitations on what Heroes is allowed to do? Because its a fan service thing so you get Super Saiyan God Trunks and Golden Cooler.

But what's stopping them from having Super Saiyan God Vegito? Ultra Instinct Gohan? Fusing Frieza and Cooler or Turles and Raditz etc.

They don't seem to add as much as they could so I don't know if they have a limit or what.

[VegettoEX]

We don't have any insight into what their actual "limitations" are, but they seem to be fairly broad and open.

They've pulled Hacchihyack (an internal Bandai character), Ozotto (from a Sega-developed game), and Yamhan (from a Dimps-developed game) from the historical archives, so that certainly says to me they tend to have free rein in terms of prior-content-usage, even with content technically developed by other companies.

Then we have an example like Gohanks, where two versions of the character were simultaneously developed in a very specific dual-promotion campaign for Heroes and Fusions, where each game got to use both.

And then there are also things like Vegeks vs. Vegenks, where Heroes made its own separate version...

But then what about the other Fusions fusions? You mention a Freeza and Coola fusion... which exists in Fusions. Same goes for a Tullece and Raditz fusion: one exists in Fusions. I believe some of these have made appearances in OTHER games (the Freeza+Coola one is in Dokkan, right?), so that says to me they're all up for grabs in SOME capacity at SOME point in time.

Part of me wonders if it's just a matter of pacing themselves. Sure, Heroes has been going for over a decade now (and there's also a history before it, with Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta and Broli coming through the Bakuretsu Impact games), but I can see them still wanting to hold onto some of these characters and ideas to keep an ever-dripping-drip of exciting content to use. Like, they could do an entire expansion with wacky fusions, but then they'd be done with them! That said, I think there's MORE than enough space for them to experiment and use some of these more often...

And what about original transformations? We get these "Limit Breaker" things, but those tend to be embellishments on existing transformations, rather than entirely new ones, right? So we get things like sparkles on top of transformations we already know, or Super Saiyan 4 dished out to characters that never got them originally (Broli, Gohan...).

So when you start to list out all the possible examples that HAVE happened and HAVEN'T happened, there's not a whole lot of consistency or reasoning to it. I don't think it would be possible for us to come up with some rule set that's absolutely being followed. What's far more likely, in my opinion, is that they're just taking it as it comes, introducing new things as they see fit and as it works into the rest of their content development schedule.

I bet there ARE certain things held holy, though; I would place money on only Toriyama ever being allowed to give Pan a Super Saiyan transformation, for example.

[TobyS]

We don't have any insight into what their actual "limitations" are, but they seem to be fairly broad and open.

They've pulled Hacchihyack (an internal Bandai character), Ozotto (from a Sega-developed game), and Yamhan (from a Dimps-developed game) from the historical archives, so that certainly says to me they tend to have free rein in terms of prior-content-usage, even with content technically developed by other companies.

Then we have an example like Gohanks, where two versions of the character were simultaneously developed in a very specific dual-promotion campaign for Heroes and Fusions, where each game got to use both.

And then there are also things like Vegeks vs. Vegenks, where Heroes made its own separate version...

But then what about the other Fusions fusions? You mention a Freeza and Coola fusion... which exists in Fusions. Same goes for a Tullece and Raditz fusion: one exists in Fusions. I believe some of these have made appearances in OTHER games (the Freeza+Coola one is in Dokkan, right?), so that says to me they're all up for grabs in SOME capacity at SOME point in time.

Part of me wonders if it's just a matter of pacing themselves. Sure, Heroes has been going for over a decade now (and there's also a history before it, with Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta and Broli coming through the Bakuretsu Impact games), but I can see them still wanting to hold onto some of these characters and ideas to keep an ever-dripping-drip of exciting content to use. Like, they could do an entire expansion with wacky fusions, but then they'd be done with them! That said, I think there's MORE than enough space for them to experiment and use some of these more often...

And what about original transformations? We get these "Limit Breaker" things, but those tend to be embellishments on existing transformations, rather than entirely new ones, right? So we get things like sparkles on top of transformations we already know, or Super Saiyan 4 dished out to characters that never got them originally (Broli, Gohan...).

So when you start to list out all the possible examples that HAVE happened and HAVEN'T happened, there's not a whole lot of consistency or reasoning to it. I don't think it would be possible for us to come up with some rule set that's absolutely being followed. What's far more likely, in my opinion, is that they're just taking it as it comes, introducing new things as they see fit and as it works into the rest of their content development schedule.

I bet there ARE certain things held holy, though; I would place money on only Toriyama ever being allowed to give Pan a Super Saiyan transformation, for example.

Veggetox nailed it.
(When was Yamhan seen?)

I suspect in addition to pacing themselves broadly there is an some element of scaling. If they don't want people to surpass angels they can't give anyone SS15 of they would.

They probably don't want to use anyone who would be used in canon. I think Pan going super Saiyan and maybe Goku meeting Bardock are something they want to be done in canon if at all.

I think some stuff would be logically end game. If they story ever gets told to wind down that is when we will see SS4Blue and the like.

[MisteryOne]

It certainly doesn't help that for whatever dumb reason they don't really do random new forms anymore, as they tie everything to the current storyline, which obviously just limits them even more -the biggest and worst example I can think of is the random Majin Omega Shenron they forced into the previous arc. What happened to stuff like SS3 Radditz and Nappa just existing cause reasons?

Anyways, the latest manga chapter has revealed some juicy background that I really, really hope it's in the other media as it's very interesting: the reason why the Glass Clan's planet was destroyed

Spoiler:

apparently, it was space pirates, more specifically Chilled (or at the very least that'sthe implication). Yamcha also got a cool moment but it's probably just Nagayama's doing just like Krillin defeating Wheelo last arc, I honestly don't see it happening in the anime or even the arcade...

[ZodiacBeast]

It certainly doesn't help that for whatever dumb reason they don't really do random new forms anymore, as they tie everything to the current storyline, which obviously just limits them even more -the biggest and worst example I can think of is the random Majin Omega Shenron they forced into the previous arc. What happened to stuff like SS3 Radditz and Nappa just existing cause reasons?

Anyways, the latest manga chapter has revealed some juicy background that I really, really hope it's in the other media as it's very interesting: the reason why the Glass Clan's planet was destroyed

Spoiler:

apparently, it was space pirates, more specifically Chilled (or at the very least that'sthe implication). Yamcha also got a cool moment but it's probably just Nagayama's doing just like Krillin defeating Wheelo last arc, I honestly don't see it happening in the anime or even the arcade...

I think it would be interesting to see King Cold get the forms that his sons have acquired. Who knows, maybe KC really was hiding some of his strength when Future Trunks took him out? *wink*

[Grimlock]

Just like Super Full Power Saiyan 4: Limit Breaker, Heroes has another opportunity to expand the lore of the series.

By establishing that Chilled killed the Glass race and having Bardock already involved in these current events, they can contribute to the Bardock OVA, maybe even setting this particular saga as a direct follow-up to that OVA's event. I imagine the Female Warrior in Black doesn't know Bardock defeated Chilled (it's ambiguous if Chilled is still alive in the manga, he only dies in the anime, but seeing as the anime is always the basis for everything...). There's also the possibility that Aeos changed what happened, which would, in turn, change her memories, so as to thinking Chilled killed her race, but in reality, it was someone else (or, that is, if they died at all, which is another possibility).

It would be great if Dimps actually did something this time around, we could even have Bardock and the Female Warrior in Black eventually figuring this out and thus betraying Aeos. Maybe even proceeding to help getting Gohan and Piccolo "back". Though the fact that the Warriors in Black are not actually being mind-controlled makes the situation a bit more difficult. I think Gohan has a legit reason to ally himself with Aeos. Let's see if the other Warriors in Black also have their own reasons.

(At any rate, it's already a step in the right direction to use Chilled, even if he's just a lore/background character for now. Seeing as modern Dragon Ball apparently can't move on from Freeza, it's high time Chilled, King Cold and Kuriza got spotlight too).

[Shorty GZ2]

Anyone have an idea of what the Female Warrior in Black's name could be that has something to do with "Glass" yet is not "Lagss"

[MCDaveG]

Man, SSJ Pan... that's one of the things I am hoping for since the beginning of Super Heroes and kinda do and don't understand if some holy status is there in place...

Because GT in heroes is treated as kind of being part of the Xeno universe. Not directly stated, but the Xeno characters are basically continuation of GT characters, we just don't know the time and place they come from, if snatched by Kaioshin of Time during events or after them. But Xeno Goku and Vegeta's progression follows GT up to SSJ4 - with a twist of other characters like Gohan, Bardock and Broly getting it. But Gohan has his Piccolo Gi from early Buu arc (or TOP manga and Super Hero), the rest are from movies, even tho Bardock and rest of the GT characters have Xeno versions of themselves.
Including Pan, who looks like a blend of GT Pan and Super era Videl.

I don't see a real reason why she can't get SSJ at least in her Xeno variant, as we already got SSJ for characters like Nappa or Raditz, or SSJ God for Xeno Trunks, which was reported as a change from creators in Super Dragon Ball Heroes 9th Anniversary Super Guide, as they planned for him to have SSJ4 as well.

GT Pan and Z/Super Pan of course can be left alone.

[MisteryOne]

Man, SSJ Pan... that's one of the things I am hoping for since the beginning of Super Heroes and kinda do and don't understand if some holy status is there in place...

Because GT in heroes is treated as kind of being part of the Xeno universe. Not directly stated, but the Xeno characters are basically continuation of GT characters, we just don't know the time and place they come from, if snatched by Kaioshin of Time during events or after them. But Xeno Goku and Vegeta's progression follows GT up to SSJ4 - with a twist of other characters like Gohan, Bardock and Broly getting it. But Gohan has his Piccolo Gi from early Buu arc (or TOP manga and Super Hero), the rest are from movies, even tho Bardock and rest of the GT characters have Xeno versions of themselves.
Including Pan, who looks like a blend of GT Pan and Super era Videl.

I don't see a real reason why she can't get SSJ at least in her Xeno variant, as we already got SSJ for characters like Nappa or Raditz, or SSJ God for Xeno Trunks, which was reported as a change from creators in Super Dragon Ball Heroes 9th Anniversary Super Guide, as they planned for him to have SSJ4 as well.

GT Pan and Z/Super Pan of course can be left alone.

Xeno Pan was specifically -and accidentally- picked up from the time of the GT Omega Shenron fight, that's why she can't go Super Saiyan until she unlocks it, if she ever does so...

It's still dumb Heroes has never tried to give SS to her in any way tho

[Dragotaker]

Pan not going Super Saiyan on Heroes yet i think is one of those things where they are waiting for it to happen in the anime first when it comes back or whatever new movie they have in mind in the future, like its obviously a big deal so they are most likely saving it for that, would love to be wrong though, we could use some new forms for various characters that have been the same for years.

[Garo]

Why isn't DBS Broly ever included in Heroes content?

[Xeogran]

Pan not going Super Saiyan on Heroes yet i think is one of those things where they are waiting for it to happen in the anime first when it comes back or whatever new movie they have in mind in the future, like its obviously a big deal so they are most likely saving it for that, would love to be wrong though, we could use some new forms for various characters that have been the same for years.

At this point with over 20 years in the making, I think Pan should just instantly jump into Beast form or something
Like, Goten and Trunks got Super Saiyan off-screen and it didn't give them any plot relevance besides being the Fusion boys.

SSJ1 in current times is surpassed by almost everyone out there. Just see how many forms Kale & Caulifla had to quickly unlock in order to compete in ToP.

[Dragotaker]

Pan not going Super Saiyan on Heroes yet i think is one of those things where they are waiting for it to happen in the anime first when it comes back or whatever new movie they have in mind in the future, like its obviously a big deal so they are most likely saving it for that, would love to be wrong though, we could use some new forms for various characters that have been the same for years.

At this point with over 20 years in the making, I think Pan should just instantly jump into Beast form or something
Like, Goten and Trunks got Super Saiyan off-screen and it didn't give them any plot relevance besides being the Fusion boys.

SSJ1 in current times is surpassed by almost everyone out there. Just see how many forms Kale & Caulifla had to quickly unlock in order to compete in ToP.

I think had GT been more popular and lasted longer we woud have seen Pan get Súper Saiyan, but then by Toriyama's own words he didn't know how a Super Saiyan female would look like back then, wouldn't surprise me if the reason why Pan still doesn't get Súper Saiyan even in Heroes is because he himself doesn't allow it, he like a lot of japanese creators are weird like that with their own biases and stuff.

This game gets a new chapter every 2 months and everytime we get close to 100 cards that are mostly the same versions of the same characters over and over, they should spice things up a bit more like when they gave Nappa and Raditz SS3 why that does not happen anymore? And why was Super Saiyan and SS2 left out? What stops them to make cards for them with those other forms? Why was Turles left out from even a single Súper Saiyan form and then suddenly gets totally-not SS3? And Xeno Goten who to this day can't even get a single normal Súper Saiyan card, if it wasn't for the manga one could believe that he just simply couldn't for whatever reason.

[MrGohanks]

I'm surprised we haven't gotten a Goku Black and Baby fusion by now

Fusion of these two cowardly thieves would be amazing!

edit:
I wish we'd see some GinyuGoku variant where Ginyu learned how to go Super Saiyan and beyond. Would love to see Vegeta Black and Goku Baby too.

Baby Vegito Black would be a cool concept

[Jord]

Pan not going Super Saiyan on Heroes yet i think is one of those things where they are waiting for it to happen in the anime first when it comes back or whatever new movie they have in mind in the future, like its obviously a big deal so they are most likely saving it for that, would love to be wrong though, we could use some new forms for various characters that have been the same for years.

At this point with over 20 years in the making, I think Pan should just instantly jump into Beast form or something
Like, Goten and Trunks got Super Saiyan off-screen and it didn't give them any plot relevance besides being the Fusion boys.

SSJ1 in current times is surpassed by almost everyone out there. Just see how many forms Kale & Caulifla had to quickly unlock in order to compete in ToP.

I think had GT been more popular and lasted longer we woud have seen Pan get Súper Saiyan, but then by Toriyama's own words he didn't know how a Super Saiyan female would look like back then, wouldn't surprise me if the reason why Pan still doesn't get Súper Saiyan even in Heroes is because he himself doesn't allow it, he like a lot of japanese creators are weird like that with their own biases and stuff.

This game gets a new chapter every 2 months and everytime we get close to 100 cards that are mostly the same versions of the same characters over and over, they should spice things up a bit more like when they gave Nappa and Raditz SS3 why that does not happen anymore? And why was Super Saiyan and SS2 left out? What stops them to make cards for them with those other forms? Why was Turles left out from even a single Súper Saiyan form and then suddenly gets totally-not SS3? And Xeno Goten who to this day can't even get a single normal Súper Saiyan card, if it wasn't for the manga one could believe that he just simply couldn't for whatever reason.

I don't think Toriyama not knowing how a female SSJ would look like is a fair excuse. Experiment, create and you'll find way.
Besides in GT SSJ4 was also designed by someone else so having someone else designs those forms was certainly possible

[MCDaveG]

Well, basically the player female avatar has SSJ forms and Pan has new designs beside the DB heritage ones.
Same as having old design Bardock and Minus one, you can do SSJ Pan and if Toriyama retcons the look, well.

He himself stated that he doesn’t intend to go beyond EOZ because the characters would be old, so I don’t see him ever touch the GT timeframe or anything beyond Z, that would be suitable for older Pan to unlock SSJ.

[Dragotaker]

Well, basically the player female avatar has SSJ forms and Pan has new designs beside the DB heritage ones.
Same as having old design Bardock and Minus one, you can do SSJ Pan and if Toriyama retcons the look, well.

He himself stated that he doesn’t intend to go beyond EOZ because the characters would be old, so I don’t see him ever touch the GT timeframe or anything beyond Z, that would be suitable for older Pan to unlock SSJ.

I think the wost part is how Xeno Pan has been around in the story for years now yet she is completely useless and barely does anything other than the old "maiden in distress" for a very short moment before going out of sight again, just a pretty girl eyecandy for the boys who play the game like all shonen, after how strong Caulifla and Kale showing was in the Super anime you would expect way better for someone that happens to be the only granddaughter of the MC, doesn't help that the whole Xeno team has been on the background since the Super people appeared.

[MisteryOne]

It really doesn't seem like we are getting anything crazy story-wise in the next mission...yet, anyways. At least, we are getting a Cell Max card.

https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/15 ... 0mVp5HHw

I'm honestly just interested in the story behind the alternate Piccolo, since he's the odd one of the group. And we already know Bardock won't be that much of a deal in the end since Goku will be facing Aios in his Omen form...then again he's going against Jiren (which doesn't mean that much nowadays but it's still impressive, making him obviously the stronger of the Warriors in Black).

[MCDaveG]

Well, basically the player female avatar has SSJ forms and Pan has new designs beside the DB heritage ones.
Same as having old design Bardock and Minus one, you can do SSJ Pan and if Toriyama retcons the look, well.

He himself stated that he doesn’t intend to go beyond EOZ because the characters would be old, so I don’t see him ever touch the GT timeframe or anything beyond Z, that would be suitable for older Pan to unlock SSJ.

I think the wost part is how Xeno Pan has been around in the story for years now yet she is completely useless and barely does anything other than the old "maiden in distress" for a very short moment before going out of sight again, just a pretty girl eyecandy for the boys who play the game like all shonen, after how strong Caulifla and Kale showing was in the Super anime you would expect way better for someone that happens to be the only granddaughter of the MC, doesn't help that the whole Xeno team has been on the background since the Super people appeared.

Well, she is kinda embarassing in the manga I am currently reading.
Not sure if eye candy, I never had a knack for drawn characters, male or female, but I like variety and like to play as both genders in games.
But well, yeah, otakus...

Seriously, GT Pan is annoying me since GT. She is shown to be prodigy in Z, her father being Gohan and Goku seriously loves her as her grandchild, her characterization past GT and into the heroes is really un-likable. A whiny brat or damsel in distress.
Bulma, Chi-chi and Videl all have their badass moments and Pan is basically this annoying extra.