Buu Arc

Raz · Post by **Raz** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:32 pm

Continuing on with the BS'ing his way out routine, more come to mind. Buu and Gotenks screaming their way out of the room of spirit and time to name one. Touched on briefly is the whole bit where he absorbs his good side, then repowers himself up again by the removal of his good side.

I would say its one part BS and another part Random, but as odd as it may be I tend to really like the Buu saga, it was a fresh approach to Dragon Ball Z.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:30 pm

Goku: "OH hAY GUISE I CAN GO SSJ3 NOW"

First of all, when would this have come up prior to his going to stall Buu? He held back on Vegeta so as not to further damage his pride. And he wanted the living to solve things themselves, it was their world now. SSJ3 didn't even need to be introduced at that point. We saw Majin Vegeta, who was about equal to SSJ2 Goku, do fairly well at keeping Buu occupied so SSJ2 would have been enough. There was no B.S.ing involved in that point.

Goku: "OH HAY I FORGOT TO MENTION the FUSION SRY LAWL"

Again, when? When would he have gone "Oh, why don't we just use this technique I know called fusion?" to the others? At the tournament? When they were fighting Babidi's men and treating it like a day at the park? When Majin Vegeta was beating him senseless? He mentioned it first chance it mattered.

(Though, of course, it didn't exist prior to that since it wasn't even Toriyama's idea and only came along because he'd backed himself into a corner. But then, Super Saiya-jin itself is the same.)

As for the other two, meh, not his fault. He wanted Gohan to end things but outside pressure and wanting to please fans meant he had to find a way to make Goku the hero. He had to whip up some excuse.

Continuing on with the BS'ing his way out routine, more come to mind. Buu and Gotenks screaming their way out of the room of spirit and time to name one. Touched on briefly is the whole bit where he absorbs his good side, then repowers himself up again by the removal of his good side.

The screaming out of the RoSaT wasn't B.S., it was comedy. As for the absorptions, its explained why he got stronger after the evil side absorbed the good (the good had been supressing his power). Besides, the same thing happened in the Cell Saga when Piccolo and Kami fused.

Oh, and no, he didn't get stronger when the good side got removed later. He lost power. Kid Buu's weaker than Super Buu. A bit stronger than Majin Buu, but weaker than Super.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:33 pm

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:55 pm

Xyex wrote: Again, when? When would he have gone "Oh, why don't we just use this technique I know called fusion?" to the others? At the tournament? When they were fighting Babidi's men and treating it like a day at the park? When Majin Vegeta was beating him senseless? He mentioned it first chance it mattered.

(Though, of course, it didn't exist prior to that since it wasn't even Toriyama's idea and only came along because he'd backed himself into a corner. But then, Super Saiya-jin itself is the same.)

However Super Saiya-jin was being built up through half the saga while SSJ3 and fusion popped out of nowhere, and let's admit it, you can come up with some good in universe explanations as to why these things weren't revealed earlier but I think it's a pretty well known fact Toriyama backed himself into a corner which is the reason why these plot devices just suddenly came to be.

As for the other two, meh, not his fault. He wanted Gohan to end things but outside pressure and wanting to please fans meant he had to find a way to make Goku the hero. He had to whip up some excuse.

Yeah it is his fault, he could have ended the series as he had always intended instead of giving into fan demand, I'd rather the fans piss and moan and we have Mr.Toriyama's ending to the series rather then coming up with B.S plot devices to make Goku the "hero guy".

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:36 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:Yeah it is his fault, he could have ended the series as he had always intended instead of giving into fan demand, I'd rather the fans piss and moan and we have Mr.Toriyama's ending to the series rather then coming up with B.S plot devices to make Goku the "hero guy".

The fans already piss and moan enough as it is; we don't need Toriyama himself making things worse. >_>

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:19 am

'Cause Goku saving the day in his comic is so bad.

ulisa · Post by **ulisa** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:07 am

While the Buu Arc is not my favorite (That honor is always going to belong to the Cell Saga) it was one of the more interesting arcs. With the other arcs, I felt like I could have an idea where the plot was going which, while interesting in its own right, took out some of the suspense.

Buu completely eliminates that. I cannot count the number of times that I was scratching my head or going "WTF? Where did THAT come from?" While I like flow, I also like suspense and surprise and that's something the Buu saga gave me that I hadn't felt since the Freeza Saga. Very cool...

And of course, being a huge fan of Gohan, I liked that ultimate power-up. Am sad that the plot changed to bring Goku in as the hero again instead of passing the torch which, to me, would have made more sense but the overall last battle didn't disappoint me though I'm not a huge fan of Uub.

All in all, not a bad arc in my opinion, but very different than all the others. For lack of a better word, it was completely random but for some reason, that worked.

Ulisa

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:27 am

Three things about the Boo arc. First, if you hated it then read the manga version it might change your mind a bit. Second, if any of you haven't watched the anime version of the Boo arc in Japanese, I recommend it. Reason being, 90% of the things that I've heard from people that don't like the Boo arc cite things that are incoherent in the dub but explained in some way in the original. Prime example, Kid Boo is weaker than Super Boo, not stronger like the dub tells you. That and it seemed a lot less "plotholely" and understandable to me first time I saw it in Japanese rather than how I remembered being confused when I caught it on TV. And the music that's used is from movies 9-12 which all had awesome music despite movies 10 and 11 sucking. Third, most of the problems in the Boo arc were mostly caused by the fans of the series at the time it was being aired and read. They people wanted more Dragonball and more Goku even though Toriyama did not want either hence why he tried to stop the manga many times. I feel it shows because the anime at least during the time after Goku went SSJ3 to about when he comes back to life were paced really poorly and in a manner that was slow and contradicting.

The only real, real thing about the Boo arc that annoys me was the fact that Goku built up saying that a "New generation" has to rise up and defeat threats but then he comes back to life and just throws all of that away. Yeah way to keep your promise Goku

. Other than that I thought the Boo arc was fun. It wasn't as good as the Saiyan and Freeza arcs but nothing after that was as good as those arcs. Personally I found it better than the Artifical Humans/Cell arc, but that's just me.

mrkaizoku · Post by **mrkaizoku** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:17 am

Vekurotto wrote:The only real, real thing about the Boo arc that annoys me was the fact that Goku built up saying that a "New generation" has to rise up and defeat threats but then he comes back to life and just throws all of that away. Yeah way to keep your promise Goku

Well he didn't really throw it away so much as he put it off. At the end of the series he trains Uub to take his place.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:37 am

djkalteraphine wrote:'Cause Goku saving the day in his comic is so bad.

It is when you come up with awful plot devices to make him the hero. In any case Toriyama himself wanted Goku to take the backseat ever since Z started.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:17 am

NeptuneKai wrote:It is when you come up with awful plot devices to make him the hero. In any case Toriyama himself wanted Goku to take the backseat ever since Z started.

Yes, that's why Gohan became the Legendary Super Saiyan and killed Freeza.

Wait...

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:18 am

Rocketman wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:It is when you come up with awful plot devices to make him the hero. In any case Toriyama himself wanted Goku to take the backseat ever since Z started.
Yes, that's why Gohan became the Legendary Super Saiyan 2 and killed Cell.

Fixed ur pozt 4 ya

Toriyama veered off in another direction for that arc, but it's possible Goku was originally supposed to die so Gohan could take the spotlight, I wish I had a source on that and I could be wrong but I remember reading it at one place or another,then again it can easily be a rumor too. Not to mention Gohan was the main focus in the Saiyajin saga, Cell saga and was originally supposed to be the hero of the Buu saga as mentioned previously.

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:38 am

There was little plot or adventure in the Buu saga, that's why it sucked. Everything up to the Freeza saga was about adventure and the Dragon Balls. After that, it became exclusively a fighting series. I wasn't too fond of the Cell saga either.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:42 am

NeptuneKai wrote:Toriyama veered off in another direction for that arc, but it's possible Goku was originally supposed to die so Gohan could take the spotlight, I wish I had a source on that and I could be wrong but I remember reading it at one place or another,then again it can easily be a rumor too. Not to mention Gohan was the main focus in the Saiyajin saga, Cell saga and was originally supposed to be the hero of the Buu saga as mentioned previously.

I say thee nay. While Gohan does get a lot of screentime, I see that as more "hey, new character". Especially since he runs way, way, WAY behind Goku for the entire series (besides Raditz) until the Hyperbolic Time Chamber bullshit.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:47 am

Rocketman wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:Toriyama veered off in another direction for that arc, but it's possible Goku was originally supposed to die so Gohan could take the spotlight, I wish I had a source on that and I could be wrong but I remember reading it at one place or another,then again it can easily be a rumor too. Not to mention Gohan was the main focus in the Saiyajin saga, Cell saga and was originally supposed to be the hero of the Buu saga as mentioned previously.
I say thee nay. While Gohan does get a lot of screentime, I see that as more "hey, new character". Especially since he runs way, way, WAY behind Goku for the entire series (besides Raditz) until the Hyperbolic Time Chamber bullshit.

Since when did power determine who was the main focus of the story?
about 3 saga's paid heavy attention on attempting to discover the secrets of Gohan's hidden power and a lot of screen time usually does mean the character is being focused on a lot, thus making him...well the main focus of the story.

I don't like his character at all to be honest, I didn't like him as a kid and I didn't like him as Mystic Gohan but it comes from the horse's mouth that Gohan was supposed to be the main focus of the story.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:18 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:Since when did power determine who was the main focus of the story?
about 3 saga's paid heavy attention on attempting to discover the secrets of Gohan's hidden power and a lot of screen time usually does mean the character is being focused on a lot, thus making him...well the main focus of the story.

I just don't buy that. The biggest side-story, yes, but while Goku (ie, the main character since the beginning) is thundering towards the confrontation with Freeza, the dude responsible for everything in the whole story....

I count that as the main focus, not Gohan.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:17 pm

DemonKingPiccolo wrote:There was little plot or adventure in the Buu saga, that's why it sucked. Everything up to the Freeza saga was about adventure and the Dragon Balls. After that, it became exclusively a fighting series. I wasn't too fond of the Cell saga either.

I dont have anything to add. I just wanted to express jealousy over your "more badass than my own" icon.