Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Koitsukai · Post by **Koitsukai** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm

How much stronger than FP Freeza, do you guys think, Perfect Cell was?

Freeza was 120M. Was Perfect Cell 100x stronger? 200x? 50x? 10x? what would Cell's PL be?

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:50 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm How much stronger than FP Freeza, do you guys think, Perfect Cell was?

Freeza was 120M. Was Perfect Cell 100x stronger? 200x? 50x? 10x? what would Cell's PL be?

I have Cell at his peak at 7 billion so that would make him around 59 times stronger than Freeza.

I am considering lowering him to 5 billion to lower Goku in the BoG arc. Beerus said that base Goku would have no chance at all against Freeza and I think where I have him right now (100 million), he could have a chance to beat him since that's rivaling territory.

OmegaAlphaDelta123 · Post by **OmegaAlphaDelta123** » Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:05 am

Pilaf Saga

Spoiler:

21st World Tournament Saga

Spoiler:

Red Ribbon Army Saga

Spoiler:

22nd World Tournament Saga

Spoiler:

King Piccolo Saga

Spoiler:

Piccolo Jr Saga

Spoiler:

Saiyan Saga

Spoiler:

Freeza Saga

Spoiler:

Android/Cell Saga

Spoiler:

Buu Saga

Spoiler:

Let me know if you want to try and see me do Super with this, it's going to be really fucking difficult.

OmegaAlphaDelta123 · Post by **OmegaAlphaDelta123** » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:50 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm How much stronger than FP Freeza, do you guys think, Perfect Cell was?

Freeza was 120M. Was Perfect Cell 100x stronger? 200x? 50x? 10x? what would Cell's PL be?

Frieza: 120,000,000
Perfect Cell Full Power: 6,000,000,000
50x stronger

Alien-X-Peke · Post by **Alien-X-Peke** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:27 pm

Power Levels Chronology #1:
Chronoa vs. Mechikabura [75 Million years ago]

I'm currently doing a list of chronological power levels according to major events that have happened throughout the Dragon Ball timeline.

We start things off with the historical fight that took place 75 million years before age: Mechikabura was competing with Chronoa for the position of Supreme Kai of Time. The position goes to Chronoa after she seals the evil Mechikabura away in the Crack of Time. She later defeats Demigra after he attempts to take over the Time Nest. Chronoa also seals him in the Crack of Time.

So in this battle Chronoa takes on 4 people: Mechikabura, Demigra, Putine, Gravy

So she has to be more powerful that all these individuals. She seals away Mechikabura first, then deals with his three disciples all at once.
So her power level would be above, but near that of Mechikabura, and above his three disciples (combined)

In my initial scaling I put their power levels near/above the 500 Million mark, as Supreme Kai (Shin) had a base power level of about 530 Million. My idea is that over the 75 million years (in which Chronoa was Supreme Kai of Time, and Mechikabura and his minions were sealed away) their power levels got much, much higher. Especially Demigra's.

1. Chronoa = 550,000,000
2. Mechikabura = 500,000,000
3. Demigra = 250,000,000
4. Gravy = 75,000,000
5. Putine = 65,000,000

I have seen in other sources with lower numbers for these characters:

1. Chronoa = 4,700
2. Mechikabura = 4,450
3. Demigra = 1,625
4. Gravy = 1,495
5. Putine = 1,300

so I also included these power levels in the chart. Keep into consideration that using these levels, basically tells you that Chronoa and Mechikabura (prior to ascending) can be beaten by Nappa (Max power), but are still more powerful than King Kai. Demigra would get beaten by Krillin (Namek saga).

These power levels do seem a bit more realistic, as it was millions of years ago and their power would've increased drastically by the time of Heroes and Super.

So I am interested, what would you guys put as their base power levels 75 million years ago?
Also what would you assign Toki-Toki's power level (if any)? I would've assumed maybe under half of Chronoa's (+ - 1,800)

(P.s. Yes I know Heroes is not canon and all this is speculation)

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:50 pm

Since this looks to predominantly be speculative stuff about possible power levels just as much as about actual officially-established numbers, then it goes in in the fan-made power levels thread in the FanWorks section. Will merge it there momentarily...

Also, just for the record, Kaioshin being 530 million isn't one such official figure. Pretty sure that comes from an old dub-ism where they had him say he was "a thousand times stronger than Fr(i)eza," while the original accurate dialogue was just a much more vague "strong enough to defeat Freeza in a single blow."

Koitsukai · Post by **Koitsukai** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:10 pm

There's no real numbers for Shin, there's nothing really, not even feats. He couldn't be weaker than Future Trunks, and is already outclassed by the Buu arc SS. Though his magic can work on a SS2 level character.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:36 pm

Only thing we have for Shin is that he is stronger than Piccolo who was already able to stand up to a Cell Jr. 7 years prior.

Alien-X-Peke · Post by **Alien-X-Peke** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:40 pm

Kaboom wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:50 pm Since this looks to predominantly be speculative stuff about possible power levels just as much as about actual officially-established numbers, then it goes in in the fan-made power levels thread in the FanWorks section. Will merge it there momentarily...

Also, just for the record, Kaioshin being 530 million isn't one such official figure. Pretty sure that comes from an old dub-ism where they had him say he was "a thousand times stronger than Fr(i)eza," while the original accurate dialogue was just a much more vague "strong enough to defeat Freeza in a single blow."

Thank you so much, this was my first post so I'm not too sure how things work around here, but thank you for your reply, and yes it is all speculation as power levels went out the window decades ago... but it's still interesting to scale them, as I'm trying to create a complete chart of power levels by saga / event.

Geraldo · Post by **Geraldo** » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:42 pm

I hate Saiyans and their needlessly endless transformations (most of them are either hairstyles modification or hair color swappings); but since I have nothing better to do right now, I'll try to put my thoughts over the power scaling of each transformation:

Great Ape - 10x base form
Super Saiyan - 50x base form
Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 65x base form
Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 85x base form (but losses agility and speed)
Super Saiyan 2 - 100x base form
Super Saiyan 3 - 400x base form

If we follow GT's line of transforming then we have:
Golden Great Ape - 500x base
Super Saiyan 4 - 750x base
Super Saiyan 4 (Full Power) - 800x base

And then "Super" came along.. Here is where things get out of hand..
Super Saiyan God - 1,500x base form
Saiyan Beyond God - 1,550x base form (only in the Resurrection 'F' movie)
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (also: Super Saiyan Rosé) - 75,000x base form
Super Saiyan Blue Full Power - 85,000x base form
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution - 100,000x base form

I bet this isn't the end of this topic, as more toys pushing transformations will be created in the future. :/

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:13 pm

Why does Saiyan beyond God have a different multiplier than Super Saiyan God?

EDIT: I found weird to see my profile picture in the "Fan-Created Works" section when I only appear here to post in the "fan works" or "funny images" threads, but I remembered a moderator can move posts to another section.

Hello, power level enthusiasts!

Alien-X-Peke wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:27 pm(P.s. Yes I know Heroes is not canon

Eh, I don't think you do.

Alien-X-Peke · Post by **Alien-X-Peke** » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:22 pm

Grimlock wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:13 pm Eh, I don't think you do.

I do, but in my own head-canon they are all connected, which is why I'm trying to create a list that spans all the series

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:29 pm

Geraldo wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:42 pm If we follow GT's line of transforming then we have:
Golden Great Ape - 500x base
Super Saiyan 4 - 750x base
Super Saiyan 4 (Full Power) - 800x base

Considering how Super Saiyan 4 Goku stacks up against Oozaru Baby, wouldn't it have to at least be ten times stronger than Super Saiyan 3?

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:04 pm

Alien-X-Peke wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:22 pmI do

I would love to know how you know, if you could express your thoughts here, I'll be glad to hear it.

theherodjl · Post by **theherodjl** » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:32 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm How much stronger than FP Freeza, do you guys think, Perfect Cell was?

Freeza was 120M. Was Perfect Cell 100x stronger? 200x? 50x? 10x? what would Cell's PL be?

Here's what I imagine.
Boo arc Goku: 90,000,000(base, doesn't appear to be strong enough to defeat Freeza according to Beerus)
Cell Games Goku: 50,000,000(base)/2,500,000,000(FPSSJ)
Perfect Cell: 1,300,000,000(1/3rd power used against Vegeta & Trunks)/2,600,000,000(2/3rd power used against FPSSJ Goku)/3,900,000,000(full power)

About 32.5x stronger than Namek arc Freeza.

GreatSaiyaman123 · Post by **GreatSaiyaman123** » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:56 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm How much stronger than FP Freeza, do you guys think, Perfect Cell was?

Freeza was 120M. Was Perfect Cell 100x stronger? 200x? 50x? 10x? what would Cell's PL be?

I haven't done a full list in a while, but I can do some basic math to get an approximation.

Cyborg Freeza: 160 (Stronger than Namek Goku)
SSJ Trunks: 240 (Ginyu implies 1.5x is the minimum to one shot)
SSJ Goku: 280 (Somewhat above Trunks)
Post timeskip Piccolo and SSJs: 400~500 (Around 2x Debut Trunks)
3rd Grade SSJ Goku: 5,000 (Surpassed Cell with it, so that guidebook saying it's a 10x boost might be up to something)
Semi Perfect Cell: 4,000 (Below SSJG3 Goku)
3rd Grade SSJ Trunks: 40,000 (10x SSJ Trunks who's around suppressed Semi Cell)
FPSSJ Goku: 120,000 (Stronger than Trunks at 50% power)
FPSSJ Gohan: 150,000 (Above Goku)
FP Cell: 200,000

So about 1,666x times stronger?

OmegaAlphaDelta123 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:05 am Let me know if you want to try and see me do Super with this, it's going to be really fucking difficult.

I don't think you can make power levels work pre DBZ. Too many statements about guys getting several times stronger. The way you had it you made the characters get weaker by the time DBZ starts!

The Z part is workable, but there's some red flags here and there. Ginyu says Goku needs a PL of at least 60k to one shot the Ginyu Force like he did, so Recoome ain't no 60,000. 40-45k tends to be the mark for them. Freeza and Cold agree Freeza is the strongest in the universe, so Cold isn't stronger. He's more like 100 million at best. And Android Saga Yamcha > Gohan? Come on.

theherodjl · Post by **theherodjl** » Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:20 am

I don't think Future Trunks at the beginning of the Android arc should even be stronger than SSJ Goku was on Namek because Future Gohan almost certainly wouldn't have been stronger than his father, Trunks likely not surpassing Future Gohan as well. I believe that 150,000,000 was the cap for the Z Senshi in the future until Trunks went to the past to go train with the gang, finally having allies of equal or comparable caliber to spar against that he didn't have in his time.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:12 pm

theherodjl wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:20 am I don't think Future Trunks at the beginning of the Android arc should even be stronger than SSJ Goku was on Namek because Future Gohan almost certainly wouldn't have been stronger than his father, Trunks likely not surpassing Future Gohan as well. I believe that 150,000,000 was the cap for the Z Senshi in the future until Trunks went to the past to go train with the gang, finally having allies of equal or comparable caliber to spar against that he didn't have in his time.

That certainly is an unusual take. Is there any particular reason why you think Future Gohan and Trunks never surpassed the level Goku capped out on during the Freeza arc? I mean, we are talking about two people who've been Super Saiyans for years and were training night and day to defeat foes that'd make Freeza look like a puny weakling.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 pm

theherodjl wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:20 am I don't think Future Trunks at the beginning of the Android arc should even be stronger than SSJ Goku was on Namek because Future Gohan almost certainly wouldn't have been stronger than his father, Trunks likely not surpassing Future Gohan as well. I believe that 150,000,000 was the cap for the Z Senshi in the future until Trunks went to the past to go train with the gang, finally having allies of equal or comparable caliber to spar against that he didn't have in his time.

Future Trunks is said to have surpassed Future Gohan though.

But I do think people overrate Mecha Freeza, SS Future Trunks and SS Yadart Goku a lot.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:39 pm

I believe the idea of Future Gohan lagging behind Goku comes from a line in the Trunks Special where Gohan says the reason he wears Goku's Kame-school colors is because he hopes to become as strong as him someday. But I can't remember if that's a real line or just a dub-ism.

But that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't at least as strong as Goku was on Namek, since Future Goku presumably would have still gotten stronger from training on Yardrat and for another 2-ish years after that before the heart virus killed him. And Trunks was already stronger than Gohan anyway by the time he went to the past, so however strong Future Gohan was it doesn't have much bearing on the whole Freeza-Trunks-Goku encounter.

Kanzenshuu

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Chronoa vs. Mechikabura [75 Million years ago] (Power Levels Chronology #1)

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