Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
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Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Given that frieza with just 4 months of training he was able to rival SSB Goku and Vegeta, it stands to reason that 10 years of training should make him exponentially more powerful. We know that Jiren rivals the GoD in his universe, and mastered UI Goku is stronger than him and a trainee angel. In turn, we know that Ultra ego vegeta is stronger than mastered UI Goku. Both of these fighters were defeated by frieza in one blow and frieza himself defeated gas with 1 attack.
Do you think that frieza is now stronger than Beerus? It would be an interesting concept of frieza no longer having anyone to keep him in check.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
For now, we can only speculate on the power difference between Frieza and Lord Beerus. Why? Because Beerus' Full Power has yet to be confirmed. It's probably better to just assume that Beerus is stronger until proven otherwise. However, based on what we've seen so far, I imagine Frieza is now in the same echelon as Beerus.
It would be interesting to see how Frieza's new power affects his relationship with Lord Beerus. It seems he has the potential to undermine a GoD, which means Frieza could be more brazen towards him. This could foreshadow a conflict between them. The new power-up may be an incentive for Beerus to view Frieza as a potential threat.
It would be interesting to see how Frieza's new power affects his relationship with Lord Beerus. It seems he has the potential to undermine a GoD, which means Frieza could be more brazen towards him. This could foreshadow a conflict between them. The new power-up may be an incentive for Beerus to view Frieza as a potential threat.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Beerus has a lot of power that we still haven't seen yet. Toriyama will probably retcon the fight in BOG and be like "Beerus was only fighting SSjG Goku at 3% of his power".
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
I guess not yet, Whis would've said something about it.
However, he better be fucking close to Beerus, by now if someone this strong is still an ant compared to Beerus this is going to start looking stupid. The moving goalpost, that isn’t actually one, cannot keep “moving” anymore, not after this arc.
However, he better be fucking close to Beerus, by now if someone this strong is still an ant compared to Beerus this is going to start looking stupid. The moving goalpost, that isn’t actually one, cannot keep “moving” anymore, not after this arc.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Impossible. Only other gods are allowed to be stronger than Beerus. Any time a mortal gets close, or starts receiving even vague "maybe" comparisons to Beerus, he just instantly gets 1,000x stronger to maintain his lead indefinitely. Goku and Vegeta alone would have eclipsed him 10 times over by now otherwise.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
In my headcanon, Beerus has his own 'two base' deal. One, he just fights normally and uses the same general techniques that anyone with Ki or God Ki uses. Two, he is able to channel the power of destruction to a vast amplification of all of his physical capabilities as well as the ability to eradicate almost anything. For most of the series, he's used his 'first' state for many of his fights or conflicts, only using his 'second' state to end things or act as a show of force to others. At this point, I believe the characters are more than likely a match for Beerus in his first state but still fall short of being able to handle what he can put out in his second; akin to what we saw when Vegeta tried fighting Beerus at the beginning of the Granolah arc.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
I think ultra ego was meant to be the ultimate goal-post moving technique to explain Beerus' position.
Vegeta is a total novice with it, but he's repeatedly said that with the form his power is unbounded. Beerus being a master of it probably means his power level can just arbitrarily increase in battle situations.
The idea that UI Goku is literally nowhere near Beerus is still annoying to me.
Vegeta is a total novice with it, but he's repeatedly said that with the form his power is unbounded. Beerus being a master of it probably means his power level can just arbitrarily increase in battle situations.
The idea that UI Goku is literally nowhere near Beerus is still annoying to me.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Of course not. Beerus' power is going to be retconed again so he can remain the strongest.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Whis being his martial arts teacher suggests that Beerus trains.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
They'll keep kicking the can until they're ready to pull the trigger. I don't see anything wrong with it either. Him being surpassed doesn't really do much for the story unless we get to see it directly like with Roshi vs. Tenshinhan.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:07 pm I guess not yet, Whis would've said something about it.
However, he better be fucking close to Beerus, by now if someone this strong is still an ant compared to Beerus this is going to start looking stupid. The moving goalpost, that isn’t actually one, cannot keep “moving” anymore, not after this arc.
I do hope they contextualize it in the story. Off-screen training would be a neat development for Beerus, just like it was for Roshi in DB. Probably for the same reasoning plus him just wanting to remain better than Goku and Vegeta.
Exactly! Just not in front of Goku and Vegeta.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Yes...but then Whis has also confirmed that Beerus spends a lot of time sleeping, snacking, and watching anime. The fact that we, the viewers, have yet to see Beerus train with Whis the way that Goku & Vegeta do suggests that he might do it once in a blue moon. Maybe just enough as to not slip in intensity.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Possibly. The Oracle Fish did have a premonition that the power balance in the universe was about to change. The Oracle Fish not recognizing Gas seems to suggest the premonition was about someone else.
There was also that line in Super Hero about Broly being safe from Frieza on Beerus' planet. And it was suggested that Broly and Beerus are on par with each other in the Broly film...
There was also that line in Super Hero about Broly being safe from Frieza on Beerus' planet. And it was suggested that Broly and Beerus are on par with each other in the Broly film...
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
On a scale 1-10
Black Freeza is a 6. Beerus is 12.
We won't see Beerus get surpassed until either Boruto has a timeskip, Super gets pass End of Z, or Pan has offsprings(GT excluded).
Black Freeza is a 6. Beerus is 12.
We won't see Beerus get surpassed until either Boruto has a timeskip, Super gets pass End of Z, or Pan has offsprings(GT excluded).
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Toriyama stated in an interview (I think Volume F) that no matter what Freeza did, he would never match Beerus.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Sure, but Toriyama is under no obligation to stick with ideas. This is something I see a lot of fans get hung up on: just because he had a thought or opinion on matters many years ago, it doesn't mean he will necessarily follow through with that when it comes down to it later on. Additionally, it's not just Toriyama writing this modern material, so the overall writers' room may ultimately have other ideas.God Vegeta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:18 pm Toriyama stated in an interview (I think Volume F) that no matter what Freeza did, he would never match Beerus.
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Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
I fully believe that Black Frieza is either close to, or surpassed Beerus by now. For all intents and purposes, Beerus NEVER fought UI Goku to show us how well he can handle him. The cat is only dunking on SSB Vegeta in each training segment we get now, while UI Goku trains with Whis who's much superior to Beerus.
Black Frieza one-shotted a much stronger version of UI Goku than from when the Granolah arc started and also one-shotted UE Vegeta at that because why not flex some more.
Visually he's already done a more impressive feat than Beerus had ever showcased.
Black Frieza one-shotted a much stronger version of UI Goku than from when the Granolah arc started and also one-shotted UE Vegeta at that because why not flex some more.
Visually he's already done a more impressive feat than Beerus had ever showcased.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
It does seem very "Dragon Ball" to have them surpass Beerus, without it ever coming up. Like, maybe a threat so powerful and diabolical surfaces, they ask for Beerus to intervene. Only for him to reveal they surpassed him years ago.Xeogran wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:09 pm I fully believe that Black Frieza is either close to, or surpassed Beerus by now. For all intents and purposes, Beerus NEVER fought UI Goku to show us how well he can handle him. The cat is only dunking on SSB Vegeta in each training segment we get now, while UI Goku trains with Whis who's much superior to Beerus.
Black Frieza one-shotted a much stronger version of UI Goku than from when the Granolah arc started and also one-shotted UE Vegeta at that because why not flex some more.
Visually he's already done a more impressive feat than Beerus had ever showcased.
I think a much more interesting question- Is Frieza stronger than Beast Gohan? The promotional material stuff seem to hype up Gohan to be the strongest character in DB right now. With the Cell Max-Gohan fight being called the most powerful fight in history- which would include fights like Goku vs. Jiren, Gogeta vs. Broly, and Goku vs. Beerus.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Well the movie released before the Black Frieza chapter, and of course the promo material couldn't spoil this twist or even take it into account. Nothing is set in stone yet.Peach wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:22 pm I think a much more interesting question- Is Frieza stronger than Beast Gohan? The promotional material stuff seem to hype up Gohan to be the strongest character in DB right now. With the Cell Max-Gohan fight being called the most powerful fight in history- which would include fights like Goku vs. Jiren, Gogeta vs. Broly, and Goku vs. Beerus.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
Despite knowing that Black Freeza had just effortlessly dropped Gas+UI Goku+UE Vegeta, Whis still didn't seem entirely convinced that he was "the strongest warrior" as prophesied by Oracle Fish, and further suggested that said warrior may have already emerged elsewhere in the universe.
Personally, my money is still on Oob. Per the Moro arc, we know he has an absolutely gargantuan amount of latent God ki at his disposal(the energy he casually donated was enough to take Goku from depleted base, back to MUI+.) So I suspect that once Oob masters his power, he could very well end up being "the strongest"... Which would also help reconcile Goku fangirling over him during the EoZ chapters and whatnot.
Re: Frieza now stronger than Beerus?
I like to think that this will come up in the story and Frieza will show himself stronger than Beerus, but this will happen years from now