The 3 Canons of Dragon Ball Super: The Future, Should the Anime be Remade? What should Toei Do?

[Rafa Fast]

This is something I've been wondering for a long time ago, but I believe this is now the perfect time to discuss about this, because the anime is on hiatus, the manga is on hiatus, and Super Hero was already released, we're just on the wait to see what's going to be Tori's and Toei's next move on the series, because as far I know, there is a huge problem for Toei, at least "huge" for me, they literally announced a new web-series and a possible return of the anime, and I didn't saw anyone talking about what I'm going to speculate here, so, let's go.



Everyone at this point already knows how much the anime and manga of DBS are different, as you can see in the image above, I've included all of the most important content & ideas exclusives to the manga, and the ones which are exclusive to the anime, at least the ones I could remember at the moment, I didn't count characters with different personalities obviously, or not so relevant scenarios, as Beerus vs Hakaishins, which could have happened in the anime continuity, but it doesn't happening also can't cause any issue.
While some of them aren't something very problematic since they are ideas used only for their respective arcs, others are true issues that literally changes the future of the series, as Transformations.
Any official source pretty much wants us to believe that both are canon.
But I highly doubt that's the case, and that actually, they do know what is the true canon, but they prefer to don't tell us due to marketing reasons, after all, maybe saying the anime isn't canon could make people lose most of the hype on it, we don't know, this is all speculation, and I'm here to do that.

So what exactly are the "3 Canons"? simple, The Movies Continuity (Battle of Gods, Fukkatsu no F, Broly & Super Hero), The Anime Continuity, and the Manga Continuity. Since both anime and movies are adaptations, they can't exactly be the same as the manga, as the Movies can't be the same continuity as the Anime, oh yeah, that's what I'm going to talk about.

Transformations that only exist in the anime, while Goku lost UI after the TOP, Vegeta could transform into SSJB Evolution at any moment, why haven't he used it against Broly? SSJ Blue doesn't seem to waste a lost of energy in the anime as well, he actually mix it with the Kaioken, while in the manga, he needed to master the form (result = SSJB Full Power), also, in the anime, he and Vegeta use SSJB pretty much everytime, while in the manga, only in the critical situations, in Super Broly, Goku used SSJB only when Broly injured him a lot, making him realize that he was a real threat.

There are as well completely different scenarios in both, Characters switching roles in battles, or even using certain powers that doesn't exist in the manga, and in the anime in vice-versa, Goku unlocking the UI.

We can pretty much see how Super Broly is more accurate to the manga, also, let's not forget.
The manga version of them do have a message.


They tell us to watch the movies, now, yeah, you could argue that the reason for this is that both mangas came out before the anime was even released, which makes sense, but, okay, if I can't go by that...
Edit: The message in BoG was actually a note made by Viz, it doesn't exist in the original jp, my bad,
Then now let's talk about the two first movies.

The Movies and the Anime do they have differences, but aside from small details, as Vegeta talking about Tarble in the BoG Movie, I see no one talking about some very important stuff that literally are referenced in the future.
In the anime version of Fukkatsu no 'F', Gotenks shows up in the battlefield, then the fusion ends, Freeza sees it, and do understand by that, they did a fusion. In the movie, that doesn't happen.
Now let's return to Super Broly, where we have a dialogue between Freeza and Gogeta, when Freeza sees Gogeta for the first time, he doesn't know who he is, Gogeta introduces himself as the fusion of Goku & Vegeta, then, Freeza, looking confused, with doubt, says "They've fused?", then Gogeta says "You don't know about that", but wait, shouldn't Freeza recognize that it was a fusion? Gogeta isn't very different from Gotenks. Well, that makes sense, if we consider Super Broly being canon, not to the anime, but to the Manga and the first two movies.
Which makes sense, we all know that Super started with Toriyama having a prepared script, then they gave it to Toei, Toei writers then decided to make all those massive changes to it, while Toriyama's original concepts were kept in the manga. In the movies, Toei doesn't have that freedom, because the movies were directly written by Toriyama due to originally not having manga counterparts. That's why we see them being more accurate to the manga material.

Toei literally created a extra continuity with their version of Super, and that is really confusing, because yeah, I do know, technically, DB and Z also had 3 continuities as well (the Manga, the Movies, and the Anime), but in that case, there wasn't any issue, people always assumed the anime as non-canon, which was obvious due to the large amount of filler material, which is heavily mixed with the canon material, they always made up very clear that the anime was different from the manga, and actually, we all could still watch the anime, that we would understand the actual canon (with just some few exceptions, as Ultra Trunks vs Perfect Cell), and the movies, heh, Do I even need to talk about them? That doesn't happens with Super.
And, seriously, what happened to the anime continuity then? If Super Broly, and probably Super Hero as well, aren't canon to this continuity, then what are they even going to do with it?
In the Anime version of Moro & Granola, will they make Goku use SSJB kaioken? Vegeta use SSJB Evolution?
They can't ignore these forms out of nowhere, this isn't the same case of Cell Arc, where we could understand very well why Goku retired the Kaioken after obtaining the SSJ, without any explanation, it was obvious after all.
Vegeta doesn't acquire any new form in Moro, if he doesn't go SSJB Evolution in the anime, what's going to be the explanation for it? "I'm holding back" doesn't seem to work anymore.

Toei literally ambushed itself, at the current state we really can't know what's going to happen, I love the anime version of Super, but I really wished for a remake more accurate to the manga, I can't refuse that Toei messed it up, but I think that's dreaming way too much. What is the possibility of this happening? Do you also wish that the anime was remade? What do you think they should do when the anime returns? Should the anime continuity and it's exclusive content be completely left out and the "Movie-Manga" continuity be the "only" one? Should the anime be completely different again with Moro & Granola?

Also please don't come with the classic "that's not how canon works, there's no exactly canon" argument, I clearly came here to discuss it and everything is speculation as I said, if there's no exactly canon then that's why so many people talk about it, and that will continue, so please don't get bothered by that, as there are many that still consider what Tori writes as the true story, keep that in mind.

[Jord]

The fun thing about Super is that none of the continuities "fit" inside Z, as it was supposed to, due to the contradictions Super created.
So even if you consider one of the Super media as "canon", it wouldn't mean anything due to it's inconsistencies.
Heck, GT is more consistent with Z than Super is.

[Rafa Fast]

The fun thing about Super is that none of the continuities "fit" inside Z, as it was supposed to, due to the contradictions Super created.
So even if you consider one of the Super media as "canon", it wouldn't mean anything due to it's inconsistencies.
Heck, GT is more consistent with Z than Super is.

Exactly, I forgot to mention that and the text was already too long, well, while I disagree about the Movies and Manga of Super not being accurate to the DB(& Z) Manga, the Anime absolutely shows problems with that, like, the heck, the Manga and Movies are supposed to be accurate to the DB Manga, but what about the Anime? Is it meant to be accurate to the DB & Z anime? A sequel to Z? Differently from GT, where, as you said, succeds in being a sequel, because they did it with the purpose to continue the Z anime (elements as Dai Kaiosama's Planet reappear for example), Super anime don't, there's absolutely not even a single filler thing from DB or Z that returns, that's why I said that Toei created a whole new canon with the anime, because Super Anime isn't DB&Z Anime's continuity, I think what is probably supposed to happen before BoG saga in Super Anime, is the DB manga, there are a lot of evidences for that (despite there's still the incoerences, as I mentioned in the image, Vegeta destroying TROSAT)

[Gashaponista]

The second page you posted is not part of the DBS manga.

[Rafa Fast]

The second page you posted is not part of the DBS manga.

I know, it's from the promotional manga of Fukkatsu no F, I considered it because it has almost the exactly same purpose of the BoG arc in the manga, they skip some things, and tell us to watch the movie, that's why I said that you could deny my point by saying they tell us that because both mangas released before the anime retellings.

[desu]

Most of these can be fixed or accommodated when Super's sequel comes out. Out of all the arcs, FT arc is probably the most different, yet the key moments and conclusion are pretty much the same.

It's likely Broly & Super Hero are getting re-adapted to fit the anime more and include more content or differences like Resurrection F did since for Toei it means dragging the new series with more episodes and adding more fan service (I can totally see them doing Blue Kaioken Goku & Evolution Vegeta vs Broly just to drag the fight), but in the end both adaptations will pretty much reach the same conclusion. It's also likely they'll fix some stuff like Frieza not knowing about Fusion in Broly or inconsistencies from Super Hero like

Spoiler:

Goku & Vegeta not sensing any energies from Earth (which also happened in RoF before Bulma called Whis) or the Red Ribbon remembering Buu despite a wish was made so everyone would forget about him.

As for things like Blue Evolution Vegeta, he does exist in the manga, even making a similar debut like in the Anime, but Toyotaro just made his hair a darker blue and changed his aura a bit. Dunno why he did that since it's much harder to tell in a manga, but the anime will probably just stick with the anime design since that's what has been marketed anyway.

For the future of the anime though, I think it'll stick closer to the manga but keeping the differences that are already there and stop making up transformations/power ups that don't exist in the manga. I think that's the wisest decision at least.

[WittyUsername]

I think you’re putting too much thought into this. I doubt the powers that be care about maintaining a specific canon. The anime and the manga are simply two different interpretations of Akira Toriyama’s outlines.

[Rafa Fast]

Most of these can be fixed or accommodated when Super's sequel comes out. Out of all the arcs, FT arc is probably the most different, yet the key moments and conclusion are pretty much the same.

Yeah at least that's the mininum, but I discuss it exactly because the new ideas and concepts (and as well, the incoerences) made by Toei, will need to be explained in the future, they can't simply left them out and pretend that it has never existed (as they almost did with SSJB Kaioken in the Black saga)

It's likely Broly & Super Hero are getting re-adapted to fit the anime more and include more content or differences like Resurrection F did since for Toei it means dragging the new series with more episodes and adding more fan service (I can totally see them doing Blue Kaioken Goku & Evolution Vegeta vs Broly just to drag the fight), but in the end both adaptations will pretty much reach the same conclusion. It's also likely they'll fix some stuff like Frieza not knowing about Fusion in Broly or inconsistencies from Super Hero like

Spoiler:

Goku & Vegeta not sensing any energies from Earth (which also happened in RoF before Bulma called Whis) or the Red Ribbon remembering Buu despite a wish was made so everyone would forget about him.

While many wouldn't like it, that's presumably one of the only ways for them to still consider their anime adaptation, it would be kinda weird they skipping these two movies when the anime returns, BoG & RoF movies aren't canon to the Super anime then we should get a Super Broly & Hero that are canon to the anime, so retelling would keep a perfect balance because we would have a version of each scenario for each media, the manga doesn't need that since the movies are canon to it.

As for things like Blue Evolution Vegeta, he does exist in the manga, even making a similar debut like in the Anime, but Toyotaro just made his hair a darker blue and changed his aura a bit. Dunno why he did that since it's much harder to tell in a manga, but the anime will probably just stick with the anime design since that's what has been marketed anyway.

I do agree about SSBE here, but that's exactly why I've considered it just for the anime, it can be something silly but the visual is also really important, Manga SSJBE looks like just a Super Super Saiyan Blue Super Full Power, while it looks like that the anime tends to make us believe that it's Super Vegeta + SSJG/B, special touch gave by Yamamuro (or whoever was behind the char designs in ToP), SSJBE is only know by most people because of his anime counterpart, many doesn't even know that it exists in the manga.

For the future of the anime though, I think it'll stick closer to the manga but keeping the differences that are already there and stop making up transformations/power ups that don't exist in the manga. I think that's the wisest decision at least.

That would be the best decision, they could use the new forms and habilities from the manga as a excuse to abandon the anime exclusive stuff, as they could make Goku use SSJB Full Power to be a excuse for him not using the form with the Kaioken anymore.

[Rafa Fast]

I think you’re putting too much thought into this. I doubt the powers that be care about maintaining a specific canon. The anime and the manga are simply two different interpretations of Akira Toriyama’s outlines.

Did you read til the end? I said that everyone knows about that and that this type of argument wouldn't make everyone shut up and accept it, the purpose here is to simply discuss and speculate what's going to be Toei's next move, if they're going to create a new anime canon, or continue their anime canon, or adapt Moro & Granola being more accurate to the 3 previous movies, there are people that does give a lot of matter to that, that could heavily affect the production process when the anime returns, as they would probably need to retell Super Broly & Hero, I'm not talking about what canon is the true canon.

[WittyUsername]

I think you’re putting too much thought into this. I doubt the powers that be care about maintaining a specific canon. The anime and the manga are simply two different interpretations of Akira Toriyama’s outlines.

Did you read til the end? I said that everyone knows about that and that this type of argument wouldn't make everyone shut up and accept it, the purpose here is to simply discuss and speculate what's going to be Toei's next move, if they're going to create a new anime canon, or continue their anime canon, or adapt Moro & Granola being more accurate to the 3 previous movies, there are people that does give a lot of matter to that, that could heavily affect the production process when the anime returns, as they would probably need to retell Super Broly & Hero, I'm not talking about what canon is the true canon.

I did read that part, and I’m a little confused about your claim that Toei shot themselves in the foot, just because of silly things like Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. I seriously doubt anyone at Toei is concerned about this.

[Vegard Aune]

For the record, that "Watch Battle of Gods!" disclaimer is not there in the original version of the manga. Note that it's an "Editor's Note." Viz added that. I've got the Japanese book in front of me right now and there's no mention of the movie there. The closest the Japanese version ever gets to outright telling people to watch the movies is probably the way they just outright skip F and Broly, only offering a quick narration that basically just goes "Oh yeah this thing happened but let's not dwell on that for now."
Which is effectively a "watch the movie/show", but it doesn't outright say "watch the movie/show".

[Rafa Fast]

I did read that part, and I’m a little confused about your claim that Toei shot themselves in the foot, just because of silly things like Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. I seriously doubt anyone at Toei is concerned about this.

Then you still don't understand what was the purpose of my post, I came here to simply discuss about my vision on the current state of the series, as I said, everything here was a speculation, in other words, just what I think, my opinion, nothing here was a real claim, to then, ask for the members what would be the best choice for them, If I said that SSJBK harms the series continuity, it's because that's what I think, you can disagree as you want, as some here did, and that's the purpose, I just said what I think and I want to see what the others think too, it doesn't matter if Toei is concerned about this, I came here to talk about it and everyone did it, you said that I'm putting way too much thought on this, of course I am, because I want to discuss about it, if you don't want to, it's because it's not the type of thread you like, very simple.

[Rafa Fast]

For the record, that "Watch Battle of Gods!" disclaimer is not there in the original version of the manga. Note that it's an "Editor's Note." Viz added that. I've got the Japanese book in front of me right now and there's no mention of the movie there. The closest the Japanese version ever gets to outright telling people to watch the movies is probably the way they just outright skip F and Broly, only offering a quick narration that basically just goes "Oh yeah this thing happened but let's not dwell on that for now."
Which is effectively a "watch the movie/show", but it doesn't outright say "watch the movie/show".

Now I didn't knew that, I read the manga with unofficial translations, so when I saw that I thought it was in the original, since most of the unofficial translations don't have those messages, thanks a lot.

[WittyUsername]

I did read that part, and I’m a little confused about your claim that Toei shot themselves in the foot, just because of silly things like Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. I seriously doubt anyone at Toei is concerned about this.

Then you still don't understand what was the purpose of my post, I came here to simply discuss about my vision on the current state of the series, as I said, everything here was a speculation, in other words, just what I think, my opinion, nothing here was a real claim, to then, ask for the members what would be the best choice for them, If I said that SSJBK harms the series continuity, it's because that's what I think, you can disagree as you want, as some here did, and that's the purpose, I just said what I think and I want to see what the others think too, it doesn't matter if Toei is concerned about this, I came here to talk about it and everyone did it, you said that I'm putting way too much thought on this, of course I am, because I want to discuss about it, if you don't want to, it's because it's not the type of thread you like, very simple.

I wasn’t trying to suggest that you don’t have a right to post about these things. I just figured I would give my two cents on the subject.

[BWri]

Honestly, I'd like something of a supercut, taking the best from each medium and making a remade series based off of that. I still think BoG and RoF can be fleshed out further and more cohesively so that the arcs don't feel so cut off from one another. BoG - Tournament of Destroyers should feel like one big trilogy for instance. It can easily be done with the smallest amount of connective tissue. I was always an advocate for intwining Champa's hunt for the Super DB's and Frieza's resurrection and sudden god tier strength gain. In the manga, Champa is familiar with the remnants of Frieza's army.

Barring that, I wouldn't mind if we got a manga accurate redo of the anime. The thing is, knowing Toei, it would still end up being a separate continuity from the manga due to story additions they'd make to fill time.

[Rafa Fast]

Honestly, I'd like something of a supercut, taking the best from each medium and making a remade series based off of that. I still think BoG and RoF can be fleshed out further and more cohesively so that the arcs don't feel so cut off from one another. BoG - Tournament of Destroyers should feel like one big trilogy for instance. It can easily be done with the smallest amount of connective tissue. I was always an advocate for intwining Champa's hunt for the Super DB's and Frieza's resurrection and sudden god tier strength gain. In the manga, Champa is familiar with the remnants of Frieza's army.

That's really something very interesting to think about, I do agree and I'm also a advocate to that, this even gave me the ideia to create other an thread, the question is, how could they do that? I've searched for something similar, and I only found a thread made at the time when the BoG arc hasn't even concluded yet, people theorized about Champa being the reason for Freeza getting such a god-like strength, well it didn't turn into reality, aside from the manga detail you've mentioned, I can't really think of anything more that could connect Champa with Fukkatsu no F, I can think of many things that could connect it with Battle of Gods, but with FnF? The champa & vados scenes from the FnF arc could be placed very well in the BoG arc that literally nothing would change.

Barring that, I wouldn't mind if we got a manga accurate redo of the anime. The thing is, knowing Toei, it would still end up being a separate continuity from the manga due to story additions they'd make to fill time.

Yep, that's why some times I say "accurate to the manga" and others "canon to the manga", with "accurate" I mean that the animation tends to adapt the manga without changing it's concepts and ideas, being much more identical to it, as the Z and DB animes were, but it can still be a different continuity, "canon" is self explanatory, the movies are canon to the manga (at least the last 2)