SSJ2 Vegetto?

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:14 pm

Two questions:

1) Why do people seem to think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Vegetto?

2) Does Vegetto go SSJ2?

I've heard many people put Goku at the top of their strength listings for the Buu saga. I think this is an odd assumption, since Vegetto seemed like more than a match for Super Buu in merely his normal form, nevermind his SSJ form. Also, there's no reason he couldn't have achieved SSJ2 and SSJ3, since Goku and Vegeta were both quite powerful, moreso than Trunks and Goten, who achieved SSJ3 while fused into Gotenks.

I've also heard folks here claim Vegetto transformed into a level 2 Super Saiyan because of the single bolt of lightning that appears in the anime when he initially transformed. I doubt it. I think this would have been major overkill against Super Buu, whom Vegetto had little trouble against while in his base form. Also, this bolt of lightning appeared when Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. transformed, which leads me to believe it was just an unconcsious error by those who animated those scenes; they forgot that the electricity was the trait of a SSJ2.

As for an in-story explanation, I believe that the resulting electricity from all examples is caused by a massive power-up that the fighter's body is unaccustomed to. Thus, Vegetto's sudden SSJ transformation was an incredible power-up that was literally so quick and excessive that it was expelled as some kind of harsh current of electric-like energy rather than the traditional aura, as though he suddently bursts with Ki. Same as Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.; two kids having become SSJ, but their bodies are not yet completely used to the initial transformation.

Also, after Piccolo fuses with Kami, he too shows off this same electric aura, possibly because his power far exceeded that of any Namekian, and thus his body wasn't totally adapted to it. You'll notice at the Cell games that he no longer has the pretty aura. This could be the result of his training in the RoSaT, in which he was able to handle all that power without the strain.

You'll also notice Majin Vegeta rarely shows that aura when he fights Buu, either, and nor does Goku when he's usually SSJ2. This could be because both of their bodies have grown used to SSJ2, and so their Kis appears more restrained until they "power-up" or focus large amounts of ki for an attack.

That was all just an in-story explaination to justify it all in my head. Just curious what other people think about my initial questions.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:43 pm

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Vegetto. If anything, Vegetto is stronger in his base form than SSJ3 Goku. Although, I'm starting to believe that after the fusion came undone that Goku somehow became stronger than before.

As for Vegetto in SSJ2; I just happened to watch that disc today, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't. It's impossible to tell by his hair (since he doesn't have any bangs like Vegeta, just a single strand of hair over his face).

And I agree with you; the random little bursts of lightening are probably just a side-effect of powering up quickly, not a concrete indication of SSJ2.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:25 pm

If you want to go by the whole lightning bit for SSJ2, technically Vegetto, in the manga, skips straight to SSJ2 for a single panel when he goes SSJ.

Also, whoever said SSJ3 Goku was stronger than Vegetto?

Post by **TripleRach** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:23 am

I know Viz isn't up to that point yet, but SSJ2 is much easier to notice in the manga than in the anime. The lightning is very pronounced, and the hair differences are usually more obvious. In Vegetto's case, it's a lot more than a single bolt of lightning. There was a lot of it during the Gokuu vs Vegeta fight, too, IIRC.

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:19 am

Vegetto can go SSJ2, and apparently does, for a single panel in the manga, but he doesn't fight in this form (it's much more obvious in the manga). And I think that he does it in a filler scene where Buu tries to destroy the Earth with this transdimensional black hole thingamabob, and Vegetto has a hard time breaking Buu's barrier. But he never does fight in this form per se, as he even states, that Buu never made him go all out.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:06 am

You've apparently not seen some of the sites I have if you're asking who thinks Goku's stronger than Vegtto, which is an impossibility by the way, half can't be stronger than a whole. But yeah, this is the most common order of strength I see on a lot of sites:

Kid Buu
SSJ2 Vegetto
Super Buu 3
SSJ3 Goku
Mystic Gohan
Super Buu 2
SSJ3 Gotenks
SSJ2 Gotenks
SSJ Vegetto
Super Buu 1.5
SSJ Gotenks
SSJ2 Goku
Gotenks
Super Buu
Vegetto
Majin Buu
Majin Vegeta
SSJ Goku
SSJ Vegeta

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:15 am

This makes me wonder what sort of sites you get info from, seeing as how half that list doesn't even make sense....

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:19 am

Yes, I know, like the fact that Super Buu 2 is stronger than Mystic Gohan but the list has it the other way around.

But it does fit as my example very nicely. It goes to show that some people really do have no clue.

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:29 am

Does Gotenks ever even go SSJ2?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:15 pm

No. He skips from SSJ to SSJ3.

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:43 pm

That's what I thought. The list Xyex posted has SSJ2 Gotenks ranked in there, so for a moment I thought I was crazy.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:03 pm

I've posted some "Theories?" mini-blurbs on the Saiya-jin "Transformations" page (if you know where to go, you can see it). I covered a few things like SSJ2 Gotenks and SSJ2 Vegetto, at least mentioning some "evidence" and daizenshuu stuffage.

Jodaku · Post by **Jodaku** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:38 am

Xyex wrote:You've apparently not seen some of the sites I have if you're asking who thinks Goku's stronger than Vegtto, which is an impossibility by the way, half can't be stronger than a whole. But yeah, this is the most common order of strength I see on a lot of sites:

Kid Buu
SSJ2 Vegetto
Super Buu 3
SSJ3 Goku
Mystic Gohan
Super Buu 2
SSJ3 Gotenks
SSJ2 Gotenks
SSJ Vegetto
Super Buu 1.5
SSJ Gotenks
SSJ2 Goku
Gotenks
Super Buu
Vegetto
Majin Buu
Majin Vegeta
SSJ Goku
SSJ Vegeta

And the sad thing is that some people will take this list seriously.