Dragon Ball Z on SubTV in Finland

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Something, which has always been said in passing, but hasn’t had much real online presence is Dragon Ball’s original Finnish broadcast, which to my knowledge has been the only broadcast it has had in the country to this date.

Knowing the channel that aired Dragon Ball Z on Finland (SubTV) aired an English dub I recently asked on Reddit, and received some interesting responses. What I’ve been told by Finnish fans, which is consistent with another ancedote I’ve heard over the years is that the later Ocean dub by Westwood Media was aired, meaning Canada, the Netherlands, the UK, and Ireland were not the only countries that received this dub.

As this Twitter thread indicates, much like the aforementioned European countries the Android, Cell and Boo arcs used Ocean’s dub, which makes sense because AB Groupe held the license for Finland at this time, and as the posts below will indicate the Finnish airings took place at a later time than any of these countries, so I suspect there was no dub switching between Ocean and Funimation, unless the latter dub was aired in error as the former was available in its entirety throughout the Finnish broadcast going by this timeline.

All these posts are auto-translated from Finnish to English by Google.

If I'm not mistaken, dragonball's ocean dubb was shown in Finland with questionable subtitle quality.

By the time Goku arrived at Namek, the dubbing changed to a version of Funimation. Would it have been for Androids or Buu when there was Ocean in between and Funimation in between. The last episodes were on the German dub.

I myself jumped on the bandwagon at the beginning of the Cell saga when it started spinning that year, the dubbi was made by Ocean. Maj's Buu fights began in the fall of 2006.

Seems SubTV communicated with fans at times regarding new episodes being broadcast. This post is one such example:

Videl wrote on 2003-08-10:

Ilmoita
Joo, eli laitoin postia Subtv:lle ja kysyin, että milloin alkaa uudet jaksot, ja että aikooko ko. kanava näyttää kaikki dbz jaksot.

Sain vastaukseksi, että uudet jaksot alkaa 21.8.2003 ja jaksoja on ostettu yht. 100kpl.

Kysyin vielä, että aikooko kanava näyttää kaikki jaksot ja aikovatko ostaa dbGT:n. En ole vielä saanut vastausta.

Eli tässä tiedoksi niille, jotka eivät vielä tienneet! ^-^

yes, so I sent a mail to Subtv and asked when the new episodes will start, and if the episode in question will start. The channel shows all DBZ cycles.

I got the answer that the new episodes start on 21.8.2003 and the episodes have been bought in total. 100pcs.

I also asked if the channel was going to show all the episodes and if they were going to buy dbGT. I haven't received an answer yet.

So here's for those who didn't know yet! ^-^

Seemingly SubTV also announced new episodes early in 2004, which weren't shown until much later in the year.

Videl wrote on 2004-02-25:

Sattuiko kukaan kuulemaan maanantaina illalla subin tiedotusta DragonBall Z:n jatkumisesta?

Eli ne jotka eivät sitä kuulleet, sanoivat subilta, että ovat ostaneet muutamia jaksoja lisää DBZ:taa ja lisää hankkivat, mutta eivät tiedä milloin niitä alkaa tulemaan tv:stä. Ja ehkä joskus keväällä (huhti-kesä) alkaa tulla uusintajaksoja...

En oo todellakaan sarjojenhankinnan expertti, mutta miten yhden sarjan hankkimisessa voi kestää niin kauan? O.o

Did anyone happen to hear the sub's announcement on Monday night about the continuation of DragonBall Z?

So those who didn't hear it, said from the sub that they have bought a few more episodes of DBZ and will get more, but they don't know when they will start coming on TV. And maybe sometime in the spring (April-summer) there will be reruns...

I'm definitely not an expert in purchasing kits, but how can it take so long to get one kit? O.o

Ditto again in 2005:

Here’s a post from August 2005 when SubTV announced they had acquired new episodes, seemingly starting from Dragon Ball Z episode 139 (or 124 edited), although this would have given them more episodes than there are in the series, so this seems to be an overestimate, or a clerical error of some sort.

"DRAGONBALL Z PALAA SUBILLE!

Supersuosittu animesarja Dragonball Z jatkuu Subtv:ssä su 18.9.

TIEDOTE 31.8.05

Subtv toteuttaa animefanien hartaan toiveen syyskuussa! Japanilainen animesarja Dragonball Z jatkuu Subtv:ssä sunnuntaina 18.9. klo 10.00. Sarjaa nähdään aina sunnuntaisin tuohon samaan aikaan.

Subtv on hankkinut sarjaan 168 uutta jaksoa. Jaksot on puhuttu englanniksi ja tekstitetty suomeksi. Dragonball Z jäi Subilla tauolle viime jouluaattona ja sarja jatkuu nyt suoraan siitä: vuorossa on siis 4. kauden jakso 124 (Unwelcome Discovery). Dragonball Z:n keskeisimmässä roolissa on Goku, joka ystävineen taistelee avaruuden pahoja voimia vastaan. Mitä Bulma, Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo, Krillin ja kumppanit keksivät androidien taltuttamiseksi Gokun ollessa edelleen huonossa kunnossa?"

toi oli suoraan lainattu subin sivuilta...

Sub TV wrote:
super popular anime series Dragonball Z will continue on Subtv on Sunday 18.9.

NOTICE 31.8.05

Subtv will make the wish of anime fans come true in September! The Japanese anime series Dragonball Z will continue on Subtv on Sunday 18.9. at 10:00 a.m. The series can be seen every Sunday at the same time. Subtv has acquired 168 new episodes for the series. The episodes are spoken in English and subtitled in Finnish. Dragonball Z took a break on Sub last Christmas Eve, and the series now continues directly from there: so it's the turn of season 4 episode 124 (Unwelcome Discovery). Dragonball Z's most central role is Goku and his friends are fighting against the evil forces of space. What will Bulma, Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo, Krillin and company come up with to tame the androids while Goku is still in bad shape?

It appears that when SubTV acquired this batch of episodes they began airing them on a Sunday, but as one fan recalls here Saturdays were added:

Pilvi-chan wrote on 2005-12-28:

DragonBall Z tulee subilta sunnuntaisin, ja kohta alkaa näkyä myös lauantaisin. Muista animeista en ole varma, taitaa olla että ainakin Pokemon, Duel Masters ja Beyblade tulevat telkkarista.

DragonBall Z comes from the sub on Sundays, and will soon start showing on Saturdays as well.

This fan isn’t happy with SubTV’s choice of dub, and appears to be under the impression it’s not the “USA dub”. I wouldn’t take this to mean there was a Big Green dub of the series seen on SubTV, but rather that this is a fan unhappy with the Westwood dub, which is likely what aired on the channel.

yautja wrote on 2006-05-19:

Miten joku voi katsoa tota DBZ:aa joka tulee subilta ku se o niin paskasti dubattu et oikee korvii ottaa niitte äänet ku ne puhuu... USA dubbaus o paljo parempi... kaiketi subilla o jotai PASKA eurodubbia.

How can someone watch the whole DBZ that comes from Sub when it's so badly dubbed that you can't really hear the voices when they speak... USA dubbing is much better... I guess Sub has some SHORT Eurodub.

However the series was not only aired on weekends, here is confirmation from two sources that Dragon Ball Z aired on weekdays at 4pm.

Pege81 wrote on 2006-06-23:

SubTv:ltä arki-iltapäivisin klo. 16:00 alkaen tulee sit DragonBall Z

From SubTv on weekday afternoons at From 16:00, there will be DragonBall Z.

Michiru06 wrote on 2006-06-25:

Dragonball Z: Ma-Pe SubTV klo 16.00

Dragonball Z: Mon-Fri SubTV at 16:00

The timeslot on weekends was 10am, moreover these posts seems to suggest there may have been a break towards the end of the Cell arc, which aired in early 2006.

Nezda wrote on 2006-01-25:
Dragon Ball Z tulee subilta su ja la 10.00
Jaksot eivät ole alkaneet alusta vaan ne jatkuvat kohdasta, johon se jäi. Eli Z-sotureiden pitäisi tuhota Cell (enempää en jaksa kirjoittaa, sillä juttu venyisi liian pitkäksi).

Dragon Ball Z comes from the sub on Sunday and Saturday at 10.00am. The episodes have not started from the beginning, but continue from where they left off. So the Z-warriors should destroy Cell (I can't write more, because the story would get too long).

NOORRA` wrote on 2006-03-14:

Ilmoita
onko kellää mitn tietoo, et jatkuuko subil noi jaksot ihan loppuu asti, ko jotkuu puhuu, et ne lopetetaa ennen ko ehtii ees näkee ton Cell Gamesin loppuratkasuu ?

Does anyone know if the sub episodes will continue until the very end, if someone is talking about them ending before they have time to see the final game of Cell Games?

Unsurprisingly, as a small channel Japanese licenses didn’t come cheap to SubTV, and it appears at one point they stopped picking up anime, but were willing to resume Dragon Ball Z, which is nice, and shows that the series must have been rather successful for them, at least compared to other anime that were run on their channel.

J.P.S wrote on 2006-01-12:

Ymmärsin että SubTV ei ihan pikkurahalla ole animea kanavalle hankkinut, niin vaikealta Dragonball Z:n takaisin saaminen oli.

I understood that SubTV didn't buy anime for the channel with little money, that's how difficult it was to get Dragonball Z back.

I haven’t seen any evidence that SubTV aired anything other than Dragon Ball Z, but what I found interesting about this post, which speculates on the possibility of GT airing is that it indicates by 2006 SubTV was only airing two new episodes a week, likely at the aforementioned weekend slots.

evt wrote on 2006-10-30:

DBGT:ssä on 64 jaksoa. Jos sitä esitettäisiin kuten nykyistä DBZ:tä, eli 2 kertaa viikossa, niin DBGT:n esittäminen kestäisi vain n. 8 kuukautta.

DBGT has 64 episodes. If it was shown like the current DBZ, i.e. 2 times a week, then DBGT would only take approx. 8 months to show.

Then there is the case of the final episode of Dragon Ball Z, which aired with the German dub, instead of either of the two English dubs, despite programming information available to viewers beforehand indicating it would be aired in English with the respective title Goku's Next Journey. The final episode first aired in Finland on December 16, 2006 without subtitles and the channel posted a message on-screen saying “We apologize for the lack of subtitles”, from what I’ve been told the episode was rerun the following week with subtitles reinstated. Here is an interesting thread from the time where naturally fans were unhappy.

The channel’s message on their text channel read:

Sub TV wrote:

"Englanninkielellä dubattuja jaksoja ei ole tehty enempää. Koska DragonBall Z:n jaksoja onkin tehty vähemmän kuin meille on myyty, esitetään ensi su 17.12. alkaen uusintoja la ja su klo 10.00 jaksosta 124 eteenpäin."

No more English-dubbed episodes have been made. Since there have been fewer episodes of DragonBall Z than have been sold to us, starting next Sunday, December 17th, reruns will be shown on Saturdays and Sundays at 10.00am. from episode 124 onwards.

Some responses from the fans:

nimi-erkki wrote on 2006-12-16:

Tähän voisi subtv:lle sanoa jotta "Ei pidä paikkansa, ei PIDÄ PAIKKANSA!" Aika räikeää valehtelemista, kun Subtv:n itsensä toimittamista ohjelmatiedoista näkee, että heidän oli tarkoitus esittää ihan englanniksi tehty, sarjan viimeinen jakso "Goku's next journey" tänään lauantaina.

Kaivakaa youtubesta tms se viimeinen jakso enkuksi, mikä jäi näkemättä nyt. Jakson nimi on siis "Goku's next journey" englanniksi, sen jaksonumero on 286/290 tai sitten hieman pienempi. (tällä hetkellä taitaa olla tosin aika heikoilla kantimilla youtuben dbz-jutut, mutta eiköhän sinne niitä kohta taas ala ilmestyä.

Surkeaa toimintaa SubTV!

You could say to subtv that "It's not true, it's NOT TRUE!" It's pretty blatant lying when you see from the program information provided by Subtv itself that they were supposed to air the final episode of the series "Goku's next journey", made in English, this Saturday.

Dig out youtube etc that last episode as enku, which I missed now. So the episode is called "Goku's next journey" in English, its episode number is 286/290 or a little lower. (At the moment, I think I'm pretty weak on YouTube's DBZ stuff, but I wonder if I'll start reappearing there soon.

Lousy action on SubTV!

nimi-erkki wrote on 2006-12-16:

Subtv on näyttänyt FUNimationin dubbauksella varustettuja jaksoja, siinä sarjassa on jaksoja tuo 276 kpl. Kaikki siihen sarjaan kuuluneet jaksot ovat tulleet, miksi muka ei sitten viimeinen?

Aika epäammattimaista toimintaa muutenkin tuntuu olevan, kun

a) valehdellaan katsojille (että englanniksi ei olisi dubattu viimeistä jaksoa -naurettavaa... ja totta kai he voisivat tuon jakson jostain hankkia jos tahtoisivat),

b) ei tarkisteta etukäteen tilattuja tuotteita (luullaan, että viimeisen jakson jälkeenkin jostain ilmestyisi näytettävää vielä helmikuulle asti) ja

c) käytetään epäluotettavia ja -ammattimaisia tavarantoimittajia.

Subtv has shown episodes with dubbing from FUNimation, that series has episodes that 276 pcs. All the episodes that were part of that series have come, why not the last one?

It seems to be pretty unprofessional anyway when

a) lying to viewers (that there wouldn't have been a dubbed last episode in English -ridiculous... and of course they could get that episode from somewhere if they wanted to),

b) not checking the products ordered in advance (it is thought that even after the last period something would appear to show until February) and c) unreliable and

unprofessional suppliers are used.

I find it interesting the last quote seems to imply the Funimation dub was aired, contary to the previous claim that USA dubbing was better than what aired on SubTV, although I assume that because Dragon Ball and Funimation are so closely linked that a lot of viewers had mistaken the Westwood dub for the Funimation dub, and Funimation changed the cast back around the time Trunks arrived on Earth.

That's all I've been able to dig up on Dragon Ball in Finland for now, hopefully some Finnish fans out there will be able to add to this. I'd love to hear more about these lesser known broadcasts.

[sigourneyanderson]

It's great, then what's better.

[wjbraden]

Thanks for doing this research! Always nice to read more about less obscure broadcasts like this (and have it all conveniently translated, too ). Too bad the Fins were never able to get more of the franchise.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Thanks for doing this research! Always nice to read more about less obscure broadcasts like this (and have it all conveniently translated, too ). Too bad the Fins were never able to get more of the franchise.

No problem, it's kind of crazy there's so little info about it compared to whats been said about the Westwood dub's run on Cartoon Network, CNX and Toonami, although Finland has a much smaller population than the UK, and is only slightly bigger than Ireland in that regard.

Found another post on the forums, apparently the premier date in Finland was January 15, 2003, which would make it the latest European country to air the series in English (for reference in the UK and Ireland it began on March 6, 2000, Netherlands was sometime in 2000, I've heard ancedotal reports of August 28 but nothing definitive, and Belgium was December 17, 2001).

Poster said on 2002-12-18 16:05:25

"Dragonball Z (if that's how it's written) starts on Sub on Wednesday 15.1. There is no smell of dubbing language."

if you go to subtv's website to info and then to announcements, you will find a short description of the series there.

So, the series was bought from a French production company, but the DBZ introduction video of the spot speaks English...

The Japanese version will hardly come, because it contains so much material not suitable for children (a few perversion references and a lot of raw violence). The French version has been hacked because it was shown on a children's morning program in France. Likewise, the Yankee version has been severely censored because it runs on Cartoon Network.

Does anyone know more about what the hell version actually comes from there?!

Of course, we know the French company they speak of was AB Groupe. Hopefully someone out there preserved that introduction video, would be interesting to see how SubTV promoted Dragon Ball Z compared to other English-friendly broadcasters.

It is a shame, because reportedly Dragon Ball was really popular in Finland. The manga was taken off store shelves because of complaints it promoted paedophilia, but it was eventually republished because the show did so well. Sadly Dragon Ball Z is the only series any Fin I've spoken to remembers seeing on TV. That said, Super Hero was shown in theatres on August 19, so maybe there is still hope for a resurgence. SubTV is just "Sub" now, so if anyone can find a contact email for them I highly recommend suggesting they pick up the Ocean dub of Kai for broadcast, as it features many of the voices Finnish fans would have heard on TV back in the day.

[Matias]

I can confirm that the Westwood dub was aired at some point on SubTV. I remember the ost and the intro. The reruns always started from the episode Trunks arrived.

[Matias]

Here's a clip of DBZ on Finnish tv.

[NitroEX]

It's great that we finally have more information on this. I had always suspected they might've aired the 'Westwood' dub in parts of Northern Europe but that was mainly because of how Turner Broadcasting EMEA (now Warner Bros. Discovery EMEA) is divided up to control both the UK and Nordic regions. If AB had sold it to one of them it was very possible that their English version would've also appeared further north where they did not have the time or resources to dub the whole series.

SubTV doesn't appear to have had any connection to Turner though (like the Netherlands channel) so it looks like it was acquired through a separate deal entirely, probably after Z had been such a hit in the UK and other places.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Here's a clip of DBZ on Finnish tv.

Thanks for the video, nice to have some evidence for the Westwood dub airing after all these years or rips primarily coming from Cartoon Network and Toonami UK.

SubTV doesn't appear to have had any connection to Turner though (like the Netherlands channel) so it looks like it was acquired through a separate deal entirely, probably after Z had been such a hit in the UK and other places.

Yeah, I know the Netherlands imported their materials from the UK, as both territories shared the same promos, so I assume SubTV licensed the Westwood dub directly from AB. I'm really curious about the fact the final episode of Z aired with the German dub instead when programming information suggested it would be in English, and whether or not that had anything to do with original Dragon Ball and GT seemingly not airing. Since SubTV claimed no more English dubbed episodes were made after Z 290 (275 edited) I wonder if it was during this time AB's sublicense for the Canadian dubbed episodes expired, hence the final episode wasn't available to them in English?

[Matias]

Here's a clip of DBZ on Finnish tv.

Thanks for the video, nice to have some evidence for the Westwood dub airing after all these years or rips primarily coming from Cartoon Network and Toonami UK.

SubTV doesn't appear to have had any connection to Turner though (like the Netherlands channel) so it looks like it was acquired through a separate deal entirely, probably after Z had been such a hit in the UK and other places.

Yeah, I know the Netherlands imported their materials from the UK, as both territories shared the same promos, so I assume SubTV licensed the Westwood dub directly from AB. I'm really curious about the fact the final episode of Z aired with the German dub instead when programming information suggested it would be in English, and whether or not that had anything to do with original Dragon Ball and GT seemingly not airing. Since SubTV claimed no more English dubbed episodes were made after Z 290 (275 edited) I wonder if it was during this time AB's sublicense for the Canadian dubbed episodes expired, hence the final episode wasn't available to them in English?

You're right about the licensing. SubTV's archived webpage from 2006 states, that the series is produced by AB Productions.

I also found a clip of the Funimation dub. I hope these clips have been helpful. They've been the only ones I've managed to find. It's unfortunate that there isn't much information available. It seems Finland was the only Nordic country that broadcasted English dubs of DBZ. I'd say the manga has more precedence in Finland than the TV series.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I also found a clip of the Funimation dub. I hope these clips have been helpful. They've been the only ones I've managed to find. It's unfortunate that there isn't much information available. It seems Finland was the only Nordic country that broadcasted English dubs of DBZ. I'd say the manga has more precedence in Finland than the TV series.

They've been very helpful, thanks for all of them. The Z Freeza and Garlic Junior sagas were never dubbed with the Ocean Studios cast, so it makes sense SubTV would have used the Funimation dub for those, that's what we got in Ireland and all other countries like the UK, Netherlands and Belgium that got the Westwood dub.

And yes, as far as I'm aware Finland was the only Nordic country to air any English dubs on TV, as from what I understand Dragon Ball never aired in Sweden or Norway and Denmark had their own dub.

[wjbraden]

I also found a clip of the Funimation dub. I hope these clips have been helpful. They've been the only ones I've managed to find. It's unfortunate that there isn't much information available. It seems Finland was the only Nordic country that broadcasted English dubs of DBZ. I'd say the manga has more precedence in Finland than the TV series.

They've been very helpful, thanks for all of them. The Z Freeza and Garlic Junior sagas were never dubbed with the Ocean Studios cast, so it makes sense SubTV would have used the Funimation dub for those, that's what we got in Ireland and all other countries like the UK, Netherlands and Belgium that got the Westwood dub.

And yes, as far as I'm aware Finland was the only Nordic country to air any English dubs on TV, as from what I understand Dragon Ball never aired in Sweden or Norway and Denmark had their own dubs.

Now that I think about it, the Danish dub used Rock the Dragon as the their intro, which technically means others in the region had English dub materials. I always thought that was peculiar how they did that, considering the rest of their dub had all the original music and whatnot. Maybe they had access to some English dub stuff in the same way that the Fins did?

Really fascinating that the Westwood dub was shown there, too. Make me wonder if it aired in other regions unbeknownst to us...

[NitroEX]

Now that I think about it, the Danish dub used Rock the Dragon as the their intro, which technically means others in the region had English dub materials. I always thought that was peculiar how they did that, considering the rest of their dub had all the original music and whatnot. Maybe they had access to some English dub stuff in the same way that the Fins did?

Possibly.

Initially, during the Saban/Funimation partnership for Dragon Ball Z, Saban had been outsourcing DBZ music and resources to countries like India for the purpose of dubbing. Saban stood to make more money this way as they were the ones receiving the music royalties rather than say, the Japanese composers. Anyway, because of this, the Indian dub had its own version of the Rock the Dragon intro and even shared the same Ron Wasserman musical score that was in the Ocean dub, but when that material ran out (after Funimation parted ways with Saban), they switched to using Kikuchi's soundtrack rather than continuing to use Funimation's intros and the Faulconer score.

I think that Funimation at the time simply didn't have the same connections and resources that Saban did in order to capitalize on those foreign relationships. Either that or it was simply much easier (or cheaper) for India's dub to get the Japanese resources elsewhere.

In the case of AB, they had been dubbing Dragon Ball long before Funimation and already possessed Kikuchi's music so it could have found its way to other neighboring countries from them. It would make the most logical sense to use that score considering the English version's fractured and inconsistent history in terms of replacement music.

My guess is the Danish dub probably received its materials from AB Groupe. AB would have gotten the Rock the Dragon intro from Saban or Funimation when they still distributed their English dub for the Netherlands and UK but, like with the Blue Water dub's production of DB and GT, AB supplied them with Kikuchi's music for Z as those were the M&E tracks AB already had. Plus, it would've been easier and cheaper than involving Funimation and trying to negotiate for their US score, or for the Danish dubbing company to go the long route of acquiring materials directly from Toei in Japan, which did not seem to be a popular option at the time due to ease of communication and the long waiting time involved in getting the resources to dub.

[wjbraden]

My guess is the Danish dub probably received its materials from AB Groupe. AB would have gotten the Rock the Dragon intro from Saban or Funimation when they still distributed their English dub for the Netherlands and UK but, like with the Blue Water dub's production of DB and GT, AB supplied them with Kikuchi's music for Z as those were the M&E tracks AB already had. Plus, it would've been easier and cheaper than involving Funimation and trying to negotiate for their US score, or for the Danish dubbing company to go the long route of acquiring materials directly from Toei in Japan, which did not seem to be a popular option at the time due to ease of communication and the long waiting time involved in getting the resources to dub.

That makes sense, despite how convoluted it is.

AB must've had a plethora of different materials and odds & ends, ranging from different dub intros, masters, scripts. etc. It's no wonder things turned out a little loopy for things across Europe when it came to selling parts the franchise to different markets. Toei being MIA in terms of quality control and oversight likely didn't help matters.