AB Video to release original Dragon Ball on Blu-Ray

[Roymustang16]

It is an upscale from the DVD master, yeah.

DBOX ~> DNR + MPEG2 artifact filtering ~> AI upscale ~> regrain

Did SV made theirs from the same source?

No, SV made theirs from the actual ProRes Dragon Box masters, while AB Groupe used the already encoded DBOX DVDs hence the issues with the dark detail in their version.

Is there a reason why AB didn't used the ProRes Dbox masters ?

[Ajay]

Is there a reason why AB didn't used the ProRes Dbox masters ?

They couldn't get them in time - the Toei communication and approval process is exceptionally slow. Rather than use Selecta Vision's release, they decided it was better to use the materials they had and produce the best upscale they could on their own terms.

[Vegard Aune]

Did SV made theirs from the same source?

No, SV made theirs from the actual ProRes Dragon Box masters, while AB Groupe used the already encoded DBOX DVDs hence the issues with the dark detail in their version.

Is there a reason why AB didn't used the ProRes Dbox masters ?

If I were to make a guess:
Because the entire process was done at the last second and so they just used what they already had on hand. Getting the uncompressed masters from Toei would have taken more time and probably forced them to postpone. Which... I kinda wish they had done because while this upscale is incredibly impressive, it is a bit sad to know that they very clearly could have done it better if they'd used better source material.

...And I see Ajay said the exact same thing right before me making this post pointless, so yay.

[jjbgood]

Not according to this comment, which lined up to what we are seeing now by the image quality:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46985&start=40#p1754465

I just quoted what people stated online. On english, german and french sites. But that was weeks before release and nothing official. I 100% trust ajay with his statement and guess the previous details and declarations were just speculation. no room for discussion here.

[supersaiyamangod]

Did SV made theirs from the same source?

No, SV made theirs from the actual ProRes Dragon Box masters, while AB Groupe used the already encoded DBOX DVDs hence the issues with the dark detail in their version.

Is there a reason why AB didn't used the ProRes Dbox masters ?

Prores dbox masters?

[eledoremassis02]

Spoiler:

I wonder what happend with this shot

lansing, aren't you the person who almost single-handedly got the color correction thread locked? Please don't do that here, too.

I would encourage you to look through this thread instead of spouting patently false information. I've quoted this particular cap to show you artifacting in the picture that matches up with the DBOX DVD releases as-is. A native HD scan wouldn't have digital artifacting of that sort unless this was a horrid, horrid encode -- which the rest of the picture will show you right away, it wasn't.

You quoted me by accident. I was really confused because I agree 100%lol

But, to add somthing to the thread. Would be interested to see what an upscale with better quality masters would look like like it it would help the kanji at all, or even some of the line work

[sangofe]

It is an upscale from the DVD master, yeah.

DBOX ~> DNR + MPEG2 artifact filtering ~> AI upscale ~> regrain

Did SV made theirs from the same source?

No, SV made theirs from the actual ProRes Dragon Box masters, while AB Groupe used the already encoded DBOX DVDs hence the issues with the dark detail in their version.

Someone confirmed this to you? I'm asking because I was told they got sent new digital material for the project. I wonder what an upscale using the other masters would look like. And if CR did that for Germany. Normally it'd look better, at least if Prores does it, right?

[MistaL]

It is an upscale from the DVD master, yeah.

DBOX ~> DNR + MPEG2 artifact filtering ~> AI upscale ~> regrain

Not according to this comment, which lined up to what we are seeing now by the image quality:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46985&start=40#p1754465

As stated by many sites like blu-ray.com they will use a HD-Upscale produced by Toei - not a remaster like with the movies.
The german release got delayed until january 12th and will probably use the same Toei HD-Upscales.

And I'm going to go further to say that this is actually a HD scan by Toei because all signs point to a HD film scan. Crispier details, tons of small details that didn't exist in the DVD, and the patches of yellow color noise that only exist in film grain.

AI upscale is not black magic, it does not create something out of thin air. For example, it cannot create a distinctive circle from a block of dark pixels from Goku's ear here:
https://imgsli.com/MTM1ODI2/0/2

It also cannot recreate the correct stroke on the bottom half of the kanji in the background. The possibility of an AI model having a kanji catalogs in its database and recognizing one from a 20px x 20px DVD sample is zero.

The comment you linked as part of your "proof" says it's an upscale. You also should look into how upscaling actually works since you're clearly not educated on the topic (yet continue to argue about it anyway).

The line on Goku's tail where the shading changes shows the most obvious signs of upscaling. Additionally, the company hired to handle the project specializes in this stuff, and likely made manual adjustments to stuff like the kanji in the background; the line weight is clearly very different from the original, which lends credence to the idea it's probably a manually touched-up asset. It's very strange (though doubly so amusing) how you're hyperfocusing on one post that uses the word "upscale" as your evidence of it not being an upscale, and a single frame with noticeable traces of upscaling, and acting like the thousands of other frames with even more obvious signs of upscaling don't exist.

[MistaL]

Additionally, the only way that one single frame would constitute any sort of proof or sign that a proper new scan was done would be if whoever painted the background came out and told us that they decided to close their eyes as well as use their non-dominant hand, while also being instructed by someone who'd never written that particular kanji in their life, while illustrating the 福 on the door, as it looks completely off when you zoom in and focus on it and there's no way that's how it was originally done.

[jaisonas]

AI upscale is not black magic, it does not create something out of thin air.

Yea if you use Topaz in default settings it doesn't. But this is a competent release.

[eledoremassis02]

Has there been any comparison yet with the TOEI DB flashback in Kai? That might be an interesting comparison (I know Kai was made to look for modern, but for the sake of detail lol) I have neither release so..

[dragonmagico]

Kai wasn't modernized it just had basic color correction. It's fairly similar to the 90s lasersdiscs even so not modern.

[eledoremassis02]

I just want to see how the AI interprited smaller details and how accurate it could be.

I'm just more interested in how this upscale was handeled and the technology behind it.

[Scsigs]

Kai wasn't modernized it just had basic color correction. It's fairly similar to the 90s lasersdiscs even so not modern.

Kai doesn't look like it had "basic" color correction. It seems like it had more extensive color correction, given what's left of the masters Toei has & what was shown on the Dragon Boxes. Although, I can see TFC having only a basic color correction, since that part of the series always looks pretty good no matter what remaster it gets due to being newer than the rest of the stuff.

[Trachta10]

Has there been any comparison yet with the TOEI DB flashback in Kai? That might be an interesting comparison (I know Kai was made to look for modern, but for the sake of detail lol) I have neither release so..

AB

Kai



AB

Kai

SV

Box

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

AB

Kai



AB

Kai

SV

Box

Kai to me looks like it has the better color correction out of these.

[sangofe]

Spoiler:

AB

Kai



AB

Kai

SV

Box

Kai to me looks like it has the better color correction out of these.

Better how? Cels, or your preferences?

[eledoremassis02]

Very much appreciated!! Thank you!

I did a slider comparison
https://imgsli.com/MTM4MjM4

Overall not bad! There does seem to be some AI Generated Details (wich are to be expected), mostly in the trees and the button on her pouch. But honestly I think these are things that can mostly be overlooked. It takes me back to the button on the guy in the SV Z upscale
AB

Kai



I am tossed on it to be honest, one end this shows the potential of enhancing shows that dont have its original film master, or early CG shots in 2D animation that were edited on tape and not film. However, it's also not the original animation and more of a computer redraw/approximation. I mean it's good but it's almost like a elephant in the room sort of deal.

I mean if its the best we get, its pretty good. I actually think they'll be people that prefer this over a native scan (this looking much more cleaner than a scan and crisper than a scan with DNR.

[HarveyPlissken]

I apologize if this was already addressed, but does anyone know when AB is doing the rest of the original Dragon Ball and whether or not they'll do Blu-Rays for both Z & GT with the same level of excellent quality as their DB discs?

[Inkei9001]

Kai wasn't modernized it just had basic color correction. It's fairly similar to the 90s lasersdiscs even so not modern.

Kai doesn't look like it had "basic" color correction. It seems like it had more extensive color correction, given what's left of the masters Toei has & what was shown on the Dragon Boxes. Although, I can see TFC having only a basic color correction, since that part of the series always looks pretty good no matter what remaster it gets due to being newer than the rest of the stuff.

We don't really know the extent to which Kai was color graded. It has been confirmed that Kai used master positives while DBox is commonly said to have used negatives? Not seen definitive confirmation on what DBox used but the shot-to-shot color cast variation does make it seem like it might've been the negatives. Master positives are color timed so usually don't have to deal with DBox levels of color volatility.

Kai's remastering approach does make the show resemble the cels but this also isn't always the result of a great deal of effort, nor "modernizing" that a lot of kanzenfolk used to say. Usually just scanning a well condition film master and expanding its dynamic range is all you need for a "cel-like" look. That's why the person before you said even Laserdisc colors have an aesthetic comparable to Kai, because it's not that much work to get a cel-like aesthetic off a good film master.

Or yeah, maybe it was a complex process I wish we got to see more before and afters of