Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

[sangofe]

Yes, apparently the recent S1 re release uses that newer remaster of Toei's and it's much better quality wise than the source Viz used back in 2014 for their initial BD releases. It seems they'll be reissuing the rest of the OG anime as a new collection of R is coming out in a few months. I assume S, SuperS and Sailor Stars will be following not long after.

Upscale or new remaster?

I've watched a review & seen some screenshot comparisons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppuCmaH_gk8
https://twitter.com/fredjfrancis/status ... 1210303488
It seems to be an upscale of SD materials, but at least a more competent one than VIZ's 2014 version & the Japanese HD broadcast version. Toei apparently doesn't have suitable film masters of the show for which to make a true HD restoration possible. Viz confirmed this back in 2014 when they released their first set & had to do damage control over the QC issues of the discs like the color oversaturation & bad color correction, DVNR, & the ghosting that affected the season 1 discs, so the visuals are more clear & more accurate when it comes to the colors. It's not as crisp as it could be, but it's still fine.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

[Scsigs]

Indeed, though i'm glad that Viz has actually made the effort here to go back and do better releases of the classic Sailor Moon run. The packaging of the 2014/2015 LE sets is nice but yes the masters of the episodes therein OTOH aren't great. Even if the new releases are upscales themselves at least it's coming from a better source this time around and the quality therein is much better than the previous versions. Those comparison pics showing the recent S1 re release against the 2014 version are night and day, it's obvious that Toei's upscale has far better quality and none of the PQ issues that plagued the former.

I ordered the first set. It's less than $25 on Amazon right now from 1 of the sellers. At least, I hope it's a legit copy. As well as the BR upscale release of Digimon season 1. It's gonna be interesting.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

I wouldn't say DB's film is unusable. It just requires more restoration & color correction than Toei's willing to pay for, unfortunately.

[sangofe]

Indeed, though i'm glad that Viz has actually made the effort here to go back and do better releases of the classic Sailor Moon run. The packaging of the 2014/2015 LE sets is nice but yes the masters of the episodes therein OTOH aren't great. Even if the new releases are upscales themselves at least it's coming from a better source this time around and the quality therein is much better than the previous versions. Those comparison pics showing the recent S1 re release against the 2014 version are night and day, it's obvious that Toei's upscale has far better quality and none of the PQ issues that plagued the former.

I ordered the first set. It's less than $25 on Amazon right now from 1 of the sellers. At least, I hope it's a legit copy. As well as the BR upscale release of Digimon season 1. It's gonna be interesting.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

I wouldn't say DB's film is unusable. It just requires more restoration & color correction than Toei's willing to pay for, unfortunately.

The thing is that neither of us know exactly if it is usable, or not. Film that is not properly stored gets damaged quickly. I learned that from listening to a podcast around AB's release of their DB upscale. It is unfortunately quite possible that Toei's film masters for Dragon Ball and DBZ now are not usable anymore...

[M16U3L2015]

Indeed, though i'm glad that Viz has actually made the effort here to go back and do better releases of the classic Sailor Moon run. The packaging of the 2014/2015 LE sets is nice but yes the masters of the episodes therein OTOH aren't great. Even if the new releases are upscales themselves at least it's coming from a better source this time around and the quality therein is much better than the previous versions. Those comparison pics showing the recent S1 re release against the 2014 version are night and day, it's obvious that Toei's upscale has far better quality and none of the PQ issues that plagued the former.

I ordered the first set. It's less than $25 on Amazon right now from 1 of the sellers. At least, I hope it's a legit copy. As well as the BR upscale release of Digimon season 1. It's gonna be interesting.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

I wouldn't say DB's film is unusable. It just requires more restoration & color correction than Toei's willing to pay for, unfortunately.

The thing is that neither of us know exactly if it is usable, or not. Film that is not properly stored gets damaged quickly. I learned that from listening to a podcast around AB's release of their DB upscale. It is unfortunately quite possible that Toei's film masters for Dragon Ball and DBZ now are not usable anymore...

But we also don't know how they are storing them, they may have them well stored after making Kai, I know Toei has been negligent before but I don't think they are negligent to the point of letting it deteriorate.

[Scsigs]

The thing is that neither of us know exactly if it is usable, or not. Film that is not properly stored gets damaged quickly. I learned that from listening to a podcast around AB's release of their DB upscale. It is unfortunately quite possible that Toei's film masters for Dragon Ball and DBZ now are not usable anymore...

At the same time, the film was kept in good enough condition that Q-Tec & Toei were able to clean it up & color correct it for Kai. I think it's safe to say they could do it, even if it requires work.

[sangofe]

The thing is that neither of us know exactly if it is usable, or not. Film that is not properly stored gets damaged quickly. I learned that from listening to a podcast around AB's release of their DB upscale. It is unfortunately quite possible that Toei's film masters for Dragon Ball and DBZ now are not usable anymore...

At the same time, the film was kept in good enough condition that Q-Tec & Toei were able to clean it up & color correct it for Kai. I think it's safe to say they could do it, even if it requires work.

That's already quite some time. We honestly don't know.

[ZodaEX]

I ordered the first set. It's less than $25 on Amazon right now from 1 of the sellers. At least, I hope it's a legit copy. As well as the BR upscale release of Digimon season 1. It's gonna be interesting.


I wouldn't say DB's film is unusable. It just requires more restoration & color correction than Toei's willing to pay for, unfortunately.

The thing is that neither of us know exactly if it is usable, or not. Film that is not properly stored gets damaged quickly. I learned that from listening to a podcast around AB's release of their DB upscale. It is unfortunately quite possible that Toei's film masters for Dragon Ball and DBZ now are not usable anymore...

But we also don't know how they are storing them, they may have them well stored after making Kai, I know Toei has been negligent before but I don't think they are negligent to the point of letting it deteriorate.

No matter what anybody does, film stock WILL deteriorate with age. It has nothing to do with Toei letting that happen. It WILL happen over time. Even in ideal storage conditions..

[Pride9000!!!]

Upscale or new remaster?

I've watched a review & seen some screenshot comparisons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppuCmaH_gk8
https://twitter.com/fredjfrancis/status ... 1210303488
It seems to be an upscale of SD materials, but at least a more competent one than VIZ's 2014 version & the Japanese HD broadcast version. Toei apparently doesn't have suitable film masters of the show for which to make a true HD restoration possible. Viz confirmed this back in 2014 when they released their first set & had to do damage control over the QC issues of the discs like the color oversaturation & bad color correction, DVNR, & the ghosting that affected the season 1 discs, so the visuals are more clear & more accurate when it comes to the colors. It's not as crisp as it could be, but it's still fine.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

The prints were usable for the D-box and kai. Recent movies and TV specials (you can see the difference between the old d-box vs the new transfers). Restoration companies regularly restore old films that are literally falling apart and that are fading away into oblivion. The question is? How much are they interested in it and how much money are they willing to pay for it? The answer is very minimal.

It really is sad, both Funny and Toei have the materials and finances to do it (either to do it themselves or outsource it). Maybe one day we'll get a good Blu-ray release from toei something similar to the movies and TV specials in terms of quality.

[sangofe]

I've watched a review & seen some screenshot comparisons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppuCmaH_gk8
https://twitter.com/fredjfrancis/status ... 1210303488
It seems to be an upscale of SD materials, but at least a more competent one than VIZ's 2014 version & the Japanese HD broadcast version. Toei apparently doesn't have suitable film masters of the show for which to make a true HD restoration possible. Viz confirmed this back in 2014 when they released their first set & had to do damage control over the QC issues of the discs like the color oversaturation & bad color correction, DVNR, & the ghosting that affected the season 1 discs, so the visuals are more clear & more accurate when it comes to the colors. It's not as crisp as it could be, but it's still fine.

Right. So the film is unusable just like for Dragon Ball, meaning funimation's the only company who actually has decent HD scans of dbz they're never gonna use, eh ?

The prints were usable for the D-box and kai. Recent movies and TV specials (you can see the difference between the old d-box vs the new transfers). Restoration companies regularly restore old films that are literally falling apart and that are fading away into oblivion. The question is? How much are they interested in it and how much money are they willing to pay for it? The answer is very minimal.

It really is sad, both Funny and Toei have the materials and finances to do it (either to do it themselves or outsource it). Maybe one day we'll get a good Blu-ray release from toei something similar to the movies and TV specials in terms of quality.

Dbox and kai has already been a while ago. It's true that the TV specials were remastered not too many years ago, though.

[Scsigs]

Dbox and kai has already been a while ago. It's true that the TV specials were remastered not too many years ago, though.

The Kai remastering was a little over a decade ago. The DBoxes were 20 years ago. Are we really saying that the film masters Toei has are really unusable for the shows? It's clear that they don't do it because it'd require a lot of money & effort that they'd rather not spend on it. They remastered the first 17 movies & the 2 TV specials because they were more cost-effective as well as were on higher-quality film (32mm) compared to the majority of episodes of the show (16mm). Remastering 17 45-60 or so minute movies & 2 45-minute TV specials that were saved to high-quality film stock is faster, easier, & costs less than remastering 153 episodes of DB, 291 episodes of Z, & 64 episodes of GT. All 20-25 minutes long. Even if they were to remaster the openings & endings separately, then just reuse those video files for every episode to save time, that's still about 20 minutes an episode. Also the 45-minute GT special.
572 episodes & 1 special.
11,485 minutes an episode (counting the double-length special).
Costs a lot of money & takes a lot of time that Toei doesn't wanna spend.

This is really a matter of economics & time, not IF it can be done. Clearly it can. This isn't like Sailor Moon where they don't have high quality masters. They have every episode on film in their vaults in Japan to use. Will they? It's hard to say, especially when there are companies in other countries willing to do the work for them. FUNi has done terrible jobs for the last 16 years & AB Groupe is doing a good one in France. Hopefully they'll sell well enough that Crunchyroll will import the AB Groupe masters to NA for a release with the FUNi English dub audio & AB will continue on into Z & GT. Only time will tell.

[jaisonas]

Toei dont even have the film masters themselves. Pony Canyon has them who are notoriously reluctant to give access to camera negatives for remasters. Even Akira has had both of its remasters done from prints.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kai was done from an inter-positive or a first gen positive...

[Scsigs]

Toei don't even have the film masters themselves. Pony Canyon has them who are notoriously reluctant to give access to camera negatives for remasters. Even Akira has had both of its remasters done from prints.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kai was done from an inter-positive or a first gen positive...

It's possible. Like, I know there was rotoscoping involved with the redrawn & recolored frames Q-Tec did & some of the colors are weird with the remaster, like Raditz's hair floating between black & blue.

[Pride9000!!!]

Toei don't even have the film masters themselves. Pony Canyon has them who are notoriously reluctant to give access to camera negatives for remasters. Even Akira has had both of its remasters done from prints.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kai was done from an inter-positive or a first gen positive...

It's possible. Like, I know there was rotoscoping involved with the redrawn & recolored frames Q-Tec did & some of the colors are weird with the remaster, like Raditz's hair floating between black & blue.

This is a pretty big misconception that people have. Raditz's actually is supposed to have blue hair the majority amount of time(when they're highlights on his hair). We can see this in the cels

Spoiler:

The majority of the home releases have crushed blacks (lost of detail in dark areas). So we don't see the dark blue colour.

[Scsigs]

This is a pretty big misconception that people have. Raditz's actually is supposed to have blue hair the majority amount of time(when they're highlights on his hair). We can see this in the cels

Spoiler:

The majority of the home releases have crushed blacks (lost of detail in dark areas). So we don't see the dark blue colour.

So, it seems like a Spider-Man 2099 thing where his suit's supposed to be black, but with blue highlights, but people confuse it to be all blue.
Saiyan's are supposed to have black hair, so the highlights thing makes sense.

[Metalwario64]

This is a pretty big misconception that people have. Raditz's actually is supposed to have blue hair the majority amount of time(when they're highlights on his hair). We can see this in the cels

Spoiler:

The majority of the home releases have crushed blacks (lost of detail in dark areas). So we don't see the dark blue colour.

So, it seems like a Spider-Man 2099 thing where his suit's supposed to be black, but with blue highlights, but people confuse it to be all blue.
Saiyan's are supposed to have black hair, so the highlights thing makes sense.

Raditz and Vegeta were given blue and brown hair respectively in the anime long before Toriyama stated Saiyans only have black hair. It's more than the highlights too since the darkest shades still have that tint in them compared to something like Goku's all black hair.

I always liked this change in the anime since it adds a little bit of variety and keeps the intent of Saiyans having extremely dark hair colors.

[lansing]

This is a pretty big misconception that people have. Raditz's actually is supposed to have blue hair the majority amount of time(when they're highlights on his hair). We can see this in the cels

Spoiler:

The majority of the home releases have crushed blacks (lost of detail in dark areas). So we don't see the dark blue colour.

So, it seems like a Spider-Man 2099 thing where his suit's supposed to be black, but with blue highlights, but people confuse it to be all blue.
Saiyan's are supposed to have black hair, so the highlights thing makes sense.

Raditz and Vegeta were given blue and brown hair respectively in the anime long before Toriyama stated Saiyans only have black hair. It's more than the highlights too since the darkest shades still have that tint in them compared to something like Goku's all black hair.

I always liked this change in the anime since it adds a little bit of variety and keeps the intent of Saiyans having extremely dark hair colors.

Nah, those color are just highlight. You can see them from the model sheets.


The base color of Vegeta's hair is x-38, which is a dark gray, it's a little bit brighter than black. We see it as brown in some picture because gray color tends to get manipulated too easily from the color of the light source compares to other color. For example, if you look at it under a fluorescent light you'll probably see a different color.

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

Nah, those color are just highlight. You can see them from the model sheets.


The base color of Vegeta's hair is x-38, which is a dark gray, it's a little bit brighter than black. We see it as brown in some picture because gray color tends to get manipulated too easily from the color of the light source compares to other color. For example, if you look at it under a fluorescent light you'll probably see a different color.

I like how they used a mix of English & Japanese letters to denote stuff.

[Pride9000!!!]

So, it seems like a Spider-Man 2099 thing where his suit's supposed to be black, but with blue highlights, but people confuse it to be all blue.
Saiyan's are supposed to have black hair, so the highlights thing makes sense.

Raditz and Vegeta were given blue and brown hair respectively in the anime long before Toriyama stated Saiyans only have black hair. It's more than the highlights too since the darkest shades still have that tint in them compared to something like Goku's all black hair.

I always liked this change in the anime since it adds a little bit of variety and keeps the intent of Saiyans having extremely dark hair colors.

Nah, those color are just highlight. You can see them from the model sheets.


The base color of Vegeta's hair is x-38, which is a dark gray, it's a little bit brighter than black. We see it as brown in some picture because gray color tends to get manipulated too easily from the color of the light source compares to other color. For example, if you look at it under a fluorescent light you'll probably see a different color.

Vegeta's hair is supposed to be brown as you say since the color code is x-38. If it said BL (wich is 100% black then it wood be black). Kai gets the color right, It's just that most home releases have crushed blacks

Spoiler:

[lansing]

Raditz and Vegeta were given blue and brown hair respectively in the anime long before Toriyama stated Saiyans only have black hair. It's more than the highlights too since the darkest shades still have that tint in them compared to something like Goku's all black hair.

I always liked this change in the anime since it adds a little bit of variety and keeps the intent of Saiyans having extremely dark hair colors.

Nah, those color are just highlight. You can see them from the model sheets.


The base color of Vegeta's hair is x-38, which is a dark gray, it's a little bit brighter than black. We see it as brown in some picture because gray color tends to get manipulated too easily from the color of the light source compares to other color. For example, if you look at it under a fluorescent light you'll probably see a different color.

Vegeta's hair is supposed to be brown as you say since the color code is x-38. If it said BL (wich is 100% black then it wood be black). Kai gets the color right, It's just that most home releases have crushed blacks

Spoiler:

No, x-38 is a dark gray, it's a neutral color with no tint. I'm just explaining why are we seeing brown in some of the picture we found online. In sRGB it's reading (49, 49, 49). Vegeta's hair throughout most of the show is a dark gray, not brown.