The reason why Dende was Kami in Movie 6 finally explained!!

[DBZ Expert]

So, I was watching the Garlic Jr Saga with subs and in episode 108, Kami offers Piccolo to be the new Kami because he wants to retire which Piccolo obviously refuses.

Spoiler:

Remember, the Garlic Jr Saga happened after movie 5 but before movie 6. Both movies and the Garlic Jr filler Arc are exclusive for TOEI. So, we can see TOEI had the idea of Kami retiring before movie 6. And then in movie 6, Dende is indeed kami and Kami retired.

Spoiler:

People used to say that Movie 6 Piccolo is Kamiccolo but weaker than his real Kamiccolo self and likely as strong as his beginning of Androids Arc self because Kami is not the guardian of Earth and even joked around that he retired. Well, guess what, TOEI seems to go with this idea since the Garlic Jr Saga. Kami actually retired and Piccolo is not fused with him in movie 6. He is the same normal Piccolo from the beginning of the Androids Arc, both in power and as an entity.

[GokuHater]

Hey, this is a good enough head cannon to work with but it doesn't actually explain Dende's presence.
We still don't get even one line of dialogue why is he there, we just... Must accept it.

So no, that's still not an explanation for Dende but yeah, Toei did experiment with Kami retiring as soon as Gralic Jr. Saga

[DBZ Expert]

Hey, this is a good enough head cannon to work with but it doesn't actually explain Dende's presence.
We still don't get even one line of dialogue why is he there, we just... Must accept it.

So no, that's still not an explanation for Dende but yeah, Toei did experiment with Kami retiring as soon as Gralic Jr. Saga

That's not the point. The point was to show that Piccolo is not necessarily fused with Kami in Movie 6 as him fusing with Kami did not even exist at the time of Movie 6 release.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hey, this is a good enough head cannon to work with but it doesn't actually explain Dende's presence.
We still don't get even one line of dialogue why is he there, we just... Must accept it.

So no, that's still not an explanation for Dende but yeah, Toei did experiment with Kami retiring as soon as Gralic Jr. Saga

My thoughts exactly. We still don't know whether the idea came from Toei or AT himself, but it all falls into place: Kami had already been looking for a replacement, and it makes perfect sense they would bring Dende. I mean it had to be another Namekian so the DBs would still exist, and it sure as hell wouldn't be Piccolo. Dende was like, one of the other two named Nameks we know (The other being Moori, who was already Namek's Kami anyway), and he was already friends with the gang.

That's not the point. The point was to show that Piccolo is not necessarily fused with Kami in Movie 6 as him fusing with Kami did not even exist at the time of Movie 6 release.

The idea of Piccolo and Kami fusing was presented at least as early as the Saiyan Saga, so that definitely already "existed" by the Androids Saga.

From a character point of view it makes sense Kami would just be chilling somewhere else since there's no reason for him and Piccolo to fuse, but we don't know what are the exact circumstances of this movie. This could be before or after the androids even showed up.

[Hellspawn28]

It won't surprise me if Toriyama pick Dende from a coincidence. I doubt he give Toei the idea early on.

[DBZ Expert]

Hey, this is a good enough head cannon to work with but it doesn't actually explain Dende's presence.
We still don't get even one line of dialogue why is he there, we just... Must accept it.

So no, that's still not an explanation for Dende but yeah, Toei did experiment with Kami retiring as soon as Gralic Jr. Saga

My thoughts exactly. We still don't know whether the idea came from Toei or AT himself, but it all falls into place: Kami had already been looking for a replacement, and it makes perfect sense they would bring Dende. I mean it had to be another Namekian so the DBs would still exist, and it sure as hell wouldn't be Piccolo. Dende was like, one of the other two named Nameks we know (The other being Moori, who was already Namek's Kami anyway), and he was already friends with the gang.

That's not the point. The point was to show that Piccolo is not necessarily fused with Kami in Movie 6 as him fusing with Kami did not even exist at the time of Movie 6 release.

The idea of Piccolo and Kami fusing was presented at least as early as the Saiyan Saga, so that definitely already "existed" by the Androids Saga.

From a character point of view it makes sense Kami would just be chilling somewhere else since there's no reason for him and Piccolo to fuse, but we don't know what are the exact circumstances of this movie. This could be before or after the androids even showed up.

Movie 6 is basically an alternative universe based on the time Goku and Vegeta fought Android 19 and 20. The Movie was also released at that point. There is no reason to think Piccolo fused with Kami as the movie came out before Android 18 and 17 even appeared in the Anime.

[Hellspawn28]

I believe DBZ Movie 6 takes place in a timeline where Piccolo finished off Imperfect Cell, and Bluma killed #16-18 with the bomb device. Piccolo already fused with Kami in the manga by the time when DBZ Movie 6 came out (2/11/1992 in the manga). They pretty much spoiled the idea of Piccolo and Kami becoming one to the casual auddiences.

[DBZ Expert]

I believe DBZ Movie 6 takes place in a timeline where Piccolo finished off Imperfect Cell, and Bluma killed #16-18 with the bomb device. Piccolo already fused with Kami in the manga by the time when DBZ Movie 6 came out (2/11/1992 in the manga). They pretty much spoiled the idea of Piccolo and Kami becoming one to the casual auddiences.

Movies follow the anime though and none of the characters you mentioned existed at that time in the Anime.

[p-hyvo]

He was kami before... Piccolo already merged.

I don't see why coming up with so convoluted explanations for things that are much easier.

The toei anime guide 2 itself gives a sort of timelines placing for the movies, and for metal cooler...



It's set in the 10 days gap before the cell games.
Toei itself uses Dende being kami to place the movie there. So yeah, this whole post is uselessly elaborated headcanon.

This movie's piccolo is just merged with kami already, accept it.

https://imgur.com/a/16UOyNy

And uh, there's this too.

神の力を持つ

“Has the power of Kami”

Pretty self explanatory for the fact that piccolo already merged with kami in this movie https://imgur.com/a/qiJHGck

[DBZ Expert]

He was kami before... Piccolo already merged.

I don't see why coming up with so convoluted explanations for things that are much easier.

The toei anime guide 2 itself gives a sort of timelines placing for the movies, and for metal cooler...



It's set in the 10 days gap before the cell games.
Toei itself uses Dende being kami to place the movie there. So yeah, this whole post is uselessly elaborated headcanon.

This movie's piccolo is just merged with kami already, accept it.

https://imgur.com/a/16UOyNy

And uh, there's this too.

神の力を持つ

“Has the power of Kami”

Pretty self explanatory for the fact that piccolo already merged with kami in this movie https://imgur.com/a/qiJHGck

Lol. This guidebook was not made by TOEI and it states it takes place before the Cell Games which is wrong because the Cell Games never existed in the Manga until 7 months later. TOEI wanted to have Kami retired in the Garlic Jr Saga. PIccolo is not even shown to be as strong as his pre Kami state because the movie came out before he was shown to beat Gero.

[p-hyvo]

He was kami before... Piccolo already merged.

I don't see why coming up with so convoluted explanations for things that are much easier.

The toei anime guide 2 itself gives a sort of timelines placing for the movies, and for metal cooler...



It's set in the 10 days gap before the cell games.
Toei itself uses Dende being kami to place the movie there. So yeah, this whole post is uselessly elaborated headcanon.

This movie's piccolo is just merged with kami already, accept it.

https://imgur.com/a/16UOyNy

And uh, there's this too.

神の力を持つ

“Has the power of Kami”

Pretty self explanatory for the fact that piccolo already merged with kami in this movie https://imgur.com/a/qiJHGck

Lol. This guidebook was not made by TOEI and it states it takes place before the Cell Games which is wrong because the Cell Games never existed in the Manga until 7 months later. TOEI wanted to have Kami retired in the Garlic Jr Saga. PIccolo is not even shown to be as strong as his pre Kami state because the movie came out before he was shown to beat Gero.

Nota made by toei? Lmao bro you're coping the hardest just to validate your headcanon

Kamiccolo already existed in the manga and anyone knew him, and it's just very likely that they talked to toriyama for the Dende thing at that point

Just take the L

That's the literal anime guide and it's made by who made the anime and movies and is official

Just don't answer anymore after this, I'll ignore you and your fabricated headcanon

[miguelnuva1]

He was kami before... Piccolo already merged.

I don't see why coming up with so convoluted explanations for things that are much easier.

The toei anime guide 2 itself gives a sort of timelines placing for the movies, and for metal cooler...



It's set in the 10 days gap before the cell games.
Toei itself uses Dende being kami to place the movie there. So yeah, this whole post is uselessly elaborated headcanon.

This movie's piccolo is just merged with kami already, accept it.

https://imgur.com/a/16UOyNy

And uh, there's this too.

神の力を持つ

“Has the power of Kami”

Pretty self explanatory for the fact that piccolo already merged with kami in this movie https://imgur.com/a/qiJHGck

Lol. This guidebook was not made by TOEI and it states it takes place before the Cell Games which is wrong because the Cell Games never existed in the Manga until 7 months later. TOEI wanted to have Kami retired in the Garlic Jr Saga. PIccolo is not even shown to be as strong as his pre Kami state because the movie came out before he was shown to beat Gero.

Nota made by toei? Lmao bro you're coping the hardest just to validate your headcanon

Kamiccolo already existed in the manga and anyone knew him, and it's just very likely that they talked to toriyama for the Dende thing at that point

Just take the L

That's the literal anime guide and it's made by who made the anime and movies and is official

Just don't answer anymore after this, I'll ignore you and your fabricated headcanon

Wait what guide is that from?

[p-hyvo]

Lol. This guidebook was not made by TOEI and it states it takes place before the Cell Games which is wrong because the Cell Games never existed in the Manga until 7 months later. TOEI wanted to have Kami retired in the Garlic Jr Saga. PIccolo is not even shown to be as strong as his pre Kami state because the movie came out before he was shown to beat Gero.

Nota made by toei? Lmao bro you're coping the hardest just to validate your headcanon

Kamiccolo already existed in the manga and anyone knew him, and it's just very likely that they talked to toriyama for the Dende thing at that point

Just take the L

That's the literal anime guide and it's made by who made the anime and movies and is official

Just don't answer anymore after this, I'll ignore you and your fabricated headcanon

Wait what guide is that from?

It's a shueisha anime guide

[miguelnuva1]

Nota made by toei? Lmao bro you're coping the hardest just to validate your headcanon

Kamiccolo already existed in the manga and anyone knew him, and it's just very likely that they talked to toriyama for the Dende thing at that point

Just take the L

That's the literal anime guide and it's made by who made the anime and movies and is official

Just don't answer anymore after this, I'll ignore you and your fabricated headcanon

Wait what guide is that from?

It's a shueisha anime guide

Intreasting. Sounds like Shueisha was just trying to place it in the timeline despite it not fitting at all.

[p-hyvo]

Wait what guide is that from?

It's a shueisha anime guide

Intreasting. Sounds like Shueisha was just trying to place it in the timeline despite it not fitting at all.

Anyway it's official

They try to place every movie even if it might not fit in , but the other scan speaks for itself anyway

[Rafa Fast]

That actually makes a lot of sense, good point!
After all, Toei when still developing Z, indeed wanted the TV animated series, movies and tv specials to fit in a single timeline, even though it ended being incosistence.
The Garlic Jr. Arc speaks for itself, Toei by showing flashbacks of the movie, clearly wanted us to believe that the movie is canon to the TV series timeline, but obviously, nobody believes it, as it's contradictory.
And let's not forget Haiya Dragon,a character that debuted in Movie 3.
Cooler's cameo in GT is also another example that they really inteded to have everything fit into the same continuity.
So yeah, Kami retiring in Movie 6 can be indeed a possibility.
And yeah, I know, Movie 6 released a month after the comic chapter where Kamiccolo becomes a thing, but let's not forget that the Movie probably was already in production sinde February at least, or maybe January?
And of course, there is the Shueisha statement.
But it would still take several months for the Cell Games to be announced, so the movie taking place before the Cell Games definitely wasn't their intention when developing M6.

So yeah, it can be indeed the Kami retirement thing.
But it can be as well the following: they just intended to have the Regular Piccolo in M6, but in the middle of the development, chapter 360 was released, then they saw it and "oh god, Kamiccolo is real, let's add this Dende scene"

[90sDBZ]

There's actually a line by Krillin at the start of the movie were he mentions Piccolo being a Super Namek. It's in the scene at the start with them all on the spaceship.

[miguelnuva1]

There's actually a line by Krillin at the start of the movie were he mentions Piccolo being a Super Namek. It's in the scene at the start with them all on the spaceship.

Piccolo was called a Super Namek after fusing with Nail in the sub.

[DBZ Expert]

There's actually a line by Krillin at the start of the movie were he mentions Piccolo being a Super Namek. It's in the scene at the start with them all on the spaceship.

There's no such line.

[VegettoEX]

There's actually a line by Krillin at the start of the movie were he mentions Piccolo being a Super Namek. It's in the scene at the start with them all on the spaceship.

There's no such line.

Well, there is, but it's exclusive to FUNimation's English dub. It does that typical thing where the scene transitions (in this case to Piccolo sitting away by himself) and all the other characters keep yapping away at newly-written dialog where none existed in the original script. Of course, this isn't ultimately relevant, because it's not in the real script to the film.

In the actual script, Kuririn asks if he (Piccolo) will be OK, Goku says he (Piccolo) doesn't eat, then it cuts away, and after a few more seconds of silence Piccolo asks, "Aren't we there yet?" That's it. Nothing about "Super Namek(ian)" in that scene.

Always a good reminder that the default version for discussion here is the original Japanese version of the series, and if you're referring to anything other than that, it's both (1) worth a check to see if the same thing is said in the original Japanese script, and (2) worth pointing out that you're referring to something other than the original Japanese version.

I also wanted to address some of the other stuff going on here in this thread:

He was kami before... Piccolo already merged.

I don't see why coming up with so convoluted explanations for things that are much easier.

The toei anime guide 2 itself gives a sort of timelines placing for the movies, and for metal cooler...



It's set in the 10 days gap before the cell games.
Toei itself uses Dende being kami to place the movie there. So yeah, this whole post is uselessly elaborated headcanon.

This movie's piccolo is just merged with kami already, accept it.

https://imgur.com/a/16UOyNy

And uh, there's this too.

神の力を持つ

“Has the power of Kami”

Pretty self explanatory for the fact that piccolo already merged with kami in this movie https://imgur.com/a/qiJHGck

Lol. This guidebook was not made by TOEI and it states it takes place before the Cell Games which is wrong because the Cell Games never existed in the Manga until 7 months later. TOEI wanted to have Kami retired in the Garlic Jr Saga. PIccolo is not even shown to be as strong as his pre Kami state because the movie came out before he was shown to beat Gero.

Nota made by toei? Lmao bro you're coping the hardest just to validate your headcanon

Kamiccolo already existed in the manga and anyone knew him, and it's just very likely that they talked to toriyama for the Dende thing at that point

Just take the L

That's the literal anime guide and it's made by who made the anime and movies and is official

Just don't answer anymore after this, I'll ignore you and your fabricated headcanon

First off, and thankfully it's seemingly already cooled off, but please spare us from this weird dismissive bravado. If you're not actually interested in having a conversation, please just don't even bother posting. It's super embarrassing to have to read, to have to moderate on top of that, and to have sitting there eternally representing "discourse" here.

Speaking of good reminders, some other things worth keeping in mind:

- Toei is an animation company, not a publishing company; books made about even things they wholly own would still need to be put out by another company

- Shueisha is the ultimate rights holder for the Dragon Ball franchise

- Of course Shueisha is going to publish guide books for the Dragon Ball franchise, since they're a publishing company, they're the owners, and they can and do work directly with their sub/licensee partners (like Toei) on all these aspects of the franchise

- Putting your phone over top a Daizenshuu page may get you a rough translation of what the words on that single page say, but it doesn't give you any sort of context for what that entire section of the book may be about; if you can't independently read and comprehend what's on that page, you've only given yourself a starting point, not an end point. I mean good god, in one of the examples I just clicked, it didn't even pick up most of a line there!

There's probably a lot more to address, but I really didn't want to give that part of the conversation the time of day anyway, so hopefully this puts a nice little bow on things.

Anyway, I'd like to wrap things up by saying that nothing in this thread actually addresses "explains" how or why Dende was revealed as Earth's God in DBZ movie 6 ahead of the actual series. There are no definitive statements from production team members, etc. etc. etc.

I think that through-line noting the Garlic Jr. material is interesting, but without anyone going on record and saying that, for example, yes Toriyama had the idea and let Toei know, or Toei possibly pitched the idea to Toriyama... again, there's nothing "explained" here.